Electric Vehicles

Published on December 15th, 2014 | by Christopher DeMorro

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Warm-Up Lap: Tesla Model S P85D vs. Ferrari

December 15th, 2014 by  
 

Elon Musk had one goal for his electric supercar; match the bonkers acceleration of the McLaren F1. With a 3.2 second run from 0 to 60 MPH, the Tesla Model S P85D is faster that most anything on the road, including the unsuspecting Ferrari featured in this video.

That’s the power of instant torque, which sends every last lb-ft to all four wheels in the first all-wheel drive vehicle Tesla has produced. I put together a whole long list of supercars Model S owners need not fear out on the open road, and this unspecified Ferrari just doesn’t seem to have what it takes to keep pace with the P85D. But just what sort of car is capable of keeping up with Elon’s masterpiece?

According to this video description, the Lamborghini Aventador just might be up to the task, although only just barely check out this description from the video’s uploader to see what I mean.

We pitted the car’s acceleration against other cars. It pretty much beat everything at the car show (Ferraris and R8s didn’t stand a chance). So I had to pit it against my Aventador, which does 0-60 in 2.8-2.9 seconds. Tesla P85D does it in 3.1-3.2 seconds. Right off the bat, the Tesla got ahead. It gets a good maybe half a car length ahead before the Aventador grips fully and starts hauling. So we decided to make it fairer and only accelerate the Tesla when the Aventador grips and starts moving. That’s when we truly got both cars to start moving at roughly the same time.

Drag Race Results (Note: This was completely casual and not in anyway in ideal, scientific conditions – the Aventador was not doing launch control): The Tesla pulled ahead in the beginning by about the hood length. But Tesla never got a chance to pull away. Instead, the Aventador kept up and was slowly cutting the difference between them with each gear shift. By the 50-60 mph, the Aventador caught up. By the 85 mph mark, the Aventador was half a car length ahead and the Tesla was only at 70-75 mph. So from around 0-60, the Aventador and Tesla P85D were pretty much neck and neck. But from 0-30 or so… the Tesla beat the Aventador. This gives you a general idea of how ridiculously fast the P85D is at the jump.

That pretty much sums it up. Elon Musk hasn’t just created a cool car, or an electric one; he’s created a car so fast that even some of the biggest names in the supercar world have a hard time keeping up.





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About the Author

A writer and gearhead who loves all things automotive, from hybrids to HEMIs, can be found wrenching or writing- or else, he's running, because he's one of those crazy people who gets enjoyment from running insane distances.



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  • Haggy

    It’s not fair to say that “Musk had one goal for his electric supercar” for several reasons. First of all, he had many goals. Second, the Model S is NOT a supercar. It’s a family sedan. You might even want to classify it as a hatchback. Those terms are not demeaning nor do they in any way diminish what the P85D does. In fact they enhance it. The fact that a family sedan can match (actually beat according to Motortrend, which clocked it at 3.1) a supercar says far more. It’s affordable compared to a supercar. It’s practical compared to a supercar. And it’s technologically advanced in so many ways that to say that Musk had one goal misses the picture completely.

    Even the base model 85 has an amazing amount of torque due to the electric motor. And while 5.4 seconds for 0-60 might not come close to supercar category, it not only beats out most things in its class, it sure feels like a supercar when you need to accelerate suddenly from 20 to 40, or from 30 to 50 or from 35 to 70, which are real world needs. Having a constant level of torque from 0 rpm upwards past the peak rpm that most cars will measure torque by means that the performance is unmatched even for something close to the base level of this car. This is a car that you can buy in real life that after tax incentives and savings from gasoline can cost typical drivers no more than paying for gasoline and a car loan for something in the $50-$60K range depending on how much they drive. That makes it super in a very different context, not just a toy for the rich.

    • Christopher DeMorro

      It may be more versatile, but it still costs more than double the average new car price in America, even with incentives.

      I do believe Musk when he says he can make a $35,000, 200-mile EV…but then again, he also promised a $50,000 EV, and he did that only with incentive and by ending the low-cost version that made it possible.

    • zn

      I just can’t even fathom what a real Tesla supercar would be capable of. Even if the P85 just shed all the luxury extras to cut down on weight it would boost performance to a scary place. Look out, Ferrari.

      • Haggy

        Musk could strip down an MS to the bare bones needed for driving, get rid of all but one seat, get rid of most electronics or any speaker or cup holder that might have a tiny effect. But it wouldn’t do more than boost his ego and waste company money. Unless some fanatics want to spend half a million dollars or more on one off cars that can break records, it’s not a product with a market.

        But I think he has already proven his point. He’s not going after the Ferrari crowd. He’s going after a broad range of customers that includes everybody from Porsche Panamera drivers to Nissan Leaf drivers. And that could include Ferrari owners too, especially if they want a place to put all their groceries and four full sized suitcases at the same time.

        • zn

          Doesn’t have to be a Model S. A newly designed Roadster would be more befitting. My point is that if Tesla can push a 5,000 pound car to 60mph in 3.2 seconds, imagine what they could do with a dedicated sports model.

          • jr

            I’ve toyed with the idea of building a dedicated 4WD drag car using electric motors – that would be fun, I can easily see a 6-7 second QUARTER MILE car. That said that’s all the Tesla can really claim – 0-60 times. Because of the behemouth 4600lbs weight the car cannot run good quarter mile times (12.5 is average) and cannot run “flat out” for a long time because at the end fo the day you need to propel a 2000lbs battery pack along with the rest of the car….

      • jr

        You want to know what a real electric super car does? Look at AMG’s SLS electric. That thing is FAST. But it is worthless as a sports car – just like Tesla is worthless as a sports car. Good luck running those 1.5 laps around Nurburgring before you need to get a charge. The REAL sports cars all run multiple laps with an energy source that weighs 90lbs not 2000lbs.

    • jr

      You’re talking about things you don’t understand. For larger displacement engines the torque curve of most sports is fairly flat. Sure forced induction makes it lumpy but power to the ground is power to the ground.

      And we all know you’re not a real sports car enthusiast when you are talking 0-60 times rather than 1/4 mile, lap times, and trap speeds.

      12.5 in the quarter mile is not an fast time for the price range. And $60k is optimistic for a P85 – what fuel consumption numbers are you using? And of course you’re not including battery replacement on a 10 year old car.

      The only reason I can see anyone purchasing a Tesla other than the “neat factor” (quickly eroding) is that carpool sticker. In terms of opportunity cost that is offset pretty rapidly by charge times if you’re driving long distance frequently. For daily commute and not being forced to drive a Volt – Ok I get it.

      • Haggy

        The difference in torque is that it’s there at 0 rpm on up. Even a golf car will beat a Ferrari for the first inch. I don’t plan to race. I’m not even all that concerned with 0-60 speed. I’m more concerned with 35-70 speed or 20-55 speed or other speeds that represent real world lane changes including entering the carpool lane when it’s moving along at 70mph and the lane next to it isn’t. Even the non-P version of the Model S will knock your head back against the headrests when accelerating at those speeds to those speeds. I’ve had cars with similar 0-60 times, but they don’t come close to the Model S in real world situations.

        For daily commute, it means 5 second recharge time daily. And being able to walk away and lock itself or have the handles auto-present makes up for those five seconds. Savings on tolls covers all but $20/month in electricity, and $75/week gas spending is a thing of the past. Prices have dropped so it would no longer be $3600/year in gas, but you get the idea. Plus there’s $10 in tax credits and rebates, putting the monthly costs (loan payments and electricity vs loan payments and gas) on par with those for a $60K car, and that’s with the 85 battery, tech package, etc.

        By 5 second recharge time, I mean of course the time it takes to plug it in before I walk away, as opposed to the time it takes to drive to a gas station, wait in line, pay, insert the nozzle, pump the gas, put the nozzle back, put the cap on and close the flap, drive home, etc. It’s a big savings in time and money and not having to worry about whether I have enough gas for the day, and not having to worry if I forget to charge for a few days.

        But all that aside, it’s a nice car. Most people who own one prefer it to other cars in its price range. It performs and handles well, has lots of tech features, and has far more trunk space than any sports car or family sedan for that matter. Plus, there’s the carpool stickers, the environmental issues in a state with mostly clean energy, etc.

        If you’d prefer a sports car, that’s fine with me. I can talk about factors that have real world relevance for everyday driving, and you can talk about what’s important to you.

        • jr

          I disagree that the “instant torque” in that 1st 1/10 of a second is advantageous in any driving environment. In fact I deal with the opposite – I own 3 twin turbo cars each making over 500ft/lbs of torque and there is a bit of lag. When racing for example a new corvette at freeway speeds (the 60mph you are talking about) the corvette always gets the jump (due to the normally aspirated engine) with my cars taking maybe half a second to catch up. However you simply cannot argue that this makes any difference in drivability. I’m not arguing it’s not “nice” to have instant torque, but for you to say it’s a big deal I find pretty ridiculous.

          As for your 5 second charge time I find that ridiculous also. Your 60kw/hour battery has a range of what 200 miles? So if your commute is 40 miles you need to pull 12 kilowatt hour to replenish. You’re telling me there are systems out there that deliver this in 5 seconds? And of course there probably are these systems in the lab – is it even healthy to recharge 18650 batteries at 20% in 5 seconds? I’d bet you would destroy battery life.

          As for “locking itself” automatically I mean come on even $15k cars have clicker remotes these days and 3 of my 4 cars have touch locks.

          Furthermore your gas savings numbers are a complete myth and more green garbage. Assuming you commute 40 miles per day needing 12kw to top off at $0.14 per kwh and gas is $2.69 needing 1.1 gallons for the same commute your annual savings assuming you worked a 5 day work week is like $350.

          For that $350 I will haul around 450mile range gasoline that weighs 80 pounds thank you as opposed to having to haul around a 2000lbs battery pack while needing to stop at a supercharger station and charge.

          Lets face it the Tesla is a expensive toy that doesn’t make sense for most people and while it’s “neat” to own that neatness is getting eroded quickly (they’re a dime a dozen here in Orange County CA) and any cost savings or performance advantage that the Tesla fan boys claim is complete bunk.

          • Haggy

            You should tell my power company and credit card company about your myth, since it would mean that I’d be getting a big refund on all the gas I used to pay for. I know what my bills are. I know what I pay per month for power from 11pm to 7am on a monthly basis.

            As for charging, do I need to make a video for you? I walk over to the car with the cable in hand. The flap pops open as I approach. I plug it in. That’s all the time I spend charging. The rest doesn’t use up any of my time and happens when I’m asleep. My 85Kwh battery give me a range of about 240 miles with a normal charge which is under 90%. I don’t have to charge every day, but the average driver in the US travels about 12,000 miles per year, which works out to under 33 miles per day. Charging every day while asleep will not be a problem for most drivers. Forgetting to charge a few days in a row won’t be a problem either. For the average person, charging once a week would probably do it. For me, it’s best to charge daily but if I miss a day it’s no problem. If I ever do need to use a supercharger some day, the amount of time spent will be nothing compared to all the time I’ve saved by not having to go to gas stations.

          • jr

            Where do you live and how are you not getting shifted into Tier 3 by consuming that extra 500KW per month?

            Your numbers are actually worse than I calculated, that is only 2.82 miles per KW or $0.10 per mile on Tier 3. That is almost a 1:1 ratio with gas being what it is on a 30mpg car which is pretty poor. My old AMG E55 (510ft/lbs torque) got 22mpg on the freeway and is probably faster than a P85 through the quarter although I never had the chance.

            Since you apparently have the P85 car though this makes you a different class of buyer and we’re arguing Apples to Oranges. At $83k do you really care that you are saving even say $1500/year on gas? I certainly don’t. My sedan is a BMW M5 which I HAVE raced a Tesla P85 beating it in the drag race and simply destroying it at the race track. At least Tesla owners are nice enough to know their cars are slow and wave faster cars by. And it takes me 10 minutes to gas up (at any gas station!) when I drive to the bay area (~400 mile trip) unlike the Tesla owners who all crowd the Grapevine supercharger forcing you to grab a meal at chipotle (or a drink at that mexican bar!).

            So I still don’t understand the motivation of purchasing a P85 you’re certainly not saving on anything, it’s not a fast or performance oriented car for the money, and while it was sort of cool (I was looking to purchase one) 3 years ago they’re literally all over the streets here in OC (as admittedly are BMW M5s). I just don’t get it…

            That said however I DO get the carpool sticker – the only justification IMO and not being forced to drive a Leaf, Volt, etc.

          • Haggy

            No, I don’t have the P85. If you are in Southern California, you could have tried Google. Searching for “southern california edison ev rates” would have cleared it up for you. In the Bay Area you could check “PG&E EV rates” and find out why Tier 3 is irrelevant. It doesn’t matter if you are in Tier 3 rates if you charge at night.

            Yes, I care that I’m saving $3000/year on gas. I kept my last two cars an average of about 11 years, and that’s only because somebody totaled one of them. A savings of $30K in gas is a good reason for me. So are $10K in rebates and credits on my taxes. So are carpool lanes and reduced bridge tolls. I did the math with real numbers, not hypothetical ones. Now that my power bills are coming in, the numbers are on target with what I expected, and so far that’s with all my charging at home.

            Your argument about BMW is downright stupid. If there were only one car worth getting, everybody would drive the same car. Different people have different preferences, and Tesla owners (who probably have driven BMWs before) have the highest satisfaction rate when asked whether they would buy it again. That doesn’t mean you will like it. I frankly don’t care if you like it. I don’t care if you hate the AMC Matador for that matter. If you sincerely think that no other car on the road is worth owning, then you should ask yourself why the auto industry exists as it does. Maybe you can say that you don’t see why anybody would want a Camry. If so, ask a Camry owner. I don’t plan on taking my car to a race track. If that were my thing, I’d buy a race car.

            If they are literally all over the streets, it’s because people like them.

            If you spend 10 minutes a week filling up, that’s almost 9 hours per year. You have to add time driving to and from gas stations also. For me, that would add another 5 minutes or more each way. Maybe you pass a gas station on the way home each day. If so, good for you. Personally, I won’t come anywhere near 9 hours per year at superchargers. I won’t come close to the more realistic 15 hours per year it will take me to get gas. And if I have to use a supercharger on a trip from Northern California to Southern California and I have to stop for lunch for 20 minutes and charge while I’m eating, I can live with that. It’s still a lot of time saved. Again, I’m going by real life usage. If your situation differs, get whatever car works for you. But don’t pretend that your situation is the same as everybody else’s and that nobody saves time when the reality is that most people save lots of time and money.

          • jr

            Actually wrong again! (this is beginning to be a pattern). If you are like most home owners in SFR with say AC pool you’re consuming maybe 500KW at the Tier 2 rates. When you shift to peak/non-peak billing you’re shifting your Tier 2 cost from $0.19kwh -> $0.32kwh or higher ($0.49/kw). Working backwards your 550 KW at $0.10/kw is really costing you about $0.21 per KW.

            Furthermore you’re not counting comparables. Your 1995 E430 certainly could have only been getting 18MPG – but today the same car type is getting 25mpg.

            My argument has never been centered around a specific vehicle (I’ve gotten on average 3 new cars every year for the past 10 years) but around your argument that the Tesla is the next best thing since sliced bread. I’ve refuted each of your arguments individually and taken as a whole we’re getting to the ONLY reason that it makes sense to purchase a Tesla for some people:

            1. Don’t want to be seen in a low-class Volt or Prius
            2. Subsidized Green Carpool sticker

            The performance oriented marketing of the car is complete hogwash and that is the basis of my argument against the Tesla. If you want to waste money thinking you have a “sports sedan” be my guest – but at the end of the day there are dozens of cars in the same price range that are worth owning DESPITE the Tesla being heavily subsidized by the government.

          • Haggy

            Yes, this is a pattern. You don’t know what I drove before. I do. You don’t know what the current equivalent is. I do. You don’t even know how old my previous car was. I do. You don’t know what the MPG is for the current model year equivalent of my old car is. I do You don’t know what actual mileage is compared to published ones, and published ones have nothing to do with reality. I know what my actual mileage was. My last car was a 2007 by the way. I’m not going by a single hypothetical here. I’m going by actual numbers from actual bills and actual gasoline expenses and actual miles per gallon I got and I know how many miles I could go between fill ups on other cars.

            You also don’t have a clue how electricity is billed. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS TIER 1 OR TIER 2 RATES ON AN EV PLAN!!! I have the bills in front of me. You don’t. Last year, I had tiers. This year, the only tiers I have are for natural gas. My actual electric bill was $35 higher than it was one year earlier. Back then I had tiered usage, and was up to Tier 3, at almost 32 cents/kWh. I’m not shifting Tier 2 costs because I don’t have any. I have peak use, partial peak use, and off peak use. The EV charging is off peak and no matter how much I use it does not affect peak and partial peak. Those are charged by how much I use in each period multiplied by the rate for that period. Yes, my peak rates are higher but that’s PER kWH. If I don’t use it much during weekdays, my AVERAGE rate will be low. Let me give you an example. Suppose I paid $60 peak, $37 part peak, and $72 off peak. The $72 reflects mostly charging the car. The peak might have been lower on a different plan, BUT I WOULD HAVE BEEN PUSHED INTO TIER 3 SO MY RATES WOULD HAVE BEEN HIGHER. Having a Peak rate that’s higher than my old Tier 3 rate is irrelevant if my overall bill is lower, not counting charging the car. It’s the total bill that counts. All that really matters is what it would have cost on the old plan without charging the car and what it costs on the new plan with charging it.

            You are right about one thing. I can’t just look at the off peak part of my bill and consider that what I pay to charge the car. I have to factor in that the other parts are now LOWER than they were before so my OVERALL bill is only marginally higher, not higher by the amount it costs to charge the car. What used to push me into tier 3 is now going against my part peak at 16 cents/kWh and I could use five times as much energy during that time period and it would still cost 16c/kWh. As long as I don’t spend my energy use during times when most people are away at work anyway, I save money.

          • jr

            Look under “Home & Electric Vehicle Plan (TOU-D-TEV)” for Tier 1 / Tier 2 EV rates. Tier 2 is insane – maybe you don’t hit that or PG&E has a different program.

            Your $0.16/kw for peak charging seems low but I have to look at PG&E numbers.

            Even at $0.16 you are paying ~$0.06 per mile. With a BMW 535 you would be paying $0.10 per mile where gas is right now so $4000 over 100k miles (haha). Except the 535i costs way less and probably less to maintain in the long run (try finding a mechanic that’s going to be able to repair a cracked A arm) and it’s comparable (if not superior) in performance.

            Oh and btw resale values are plummeting – check ebay and they’ll plummet some more as soon as asian demand is satisfied (most used are being flipped to asian countries due to regulations – I know someone that has waited awhile and finally got theres in HK).

            At the end of the day the ONLY reason to have bought the Tesla is that green carpool sticker subsidy. Nothing else makes sense.

            https://www.sce.com/wps/portal/home/residential/electric-cars/residential-rates/!ut/p/b1/hc_NboJAFAXgZ3HBUubAGMHuhpQMg3-1osXZNNDgSIKMQVrSt-9o3Giq3t25-U5yL5EkJbLOfkqVtaWus-qU5fDT8TmLxBKCrxIGEbwGTjQVwGxgwMYA3BmGZ_0PIq-Jn_DQkDFG6zeXDjzvFvB3z4WI1-FkHjgufPcCRhxhFM8NSBYUgi4wWzJGgeEFPDgyJlJVOj8_vGF1Tn1FZFNsi6Zo7O_GrHdtezi-WLDQdZ2ttFZVYX_pvYX_Kjt9bEl6Lclhn6IUfZn_dr0_EY5KsQ!!/dl4/d5/L2dBISEvZ0FBIS9nQSEh/?from=/residential/rates/electric-vehicles.htm#/accordionGrp1-2/accordionGrp1-1

          • Haggy

            The problem is that with you paying $6.25 per gallon of gas, your numbers makes no sense. For now on I will make up numbers that have nothing to do with reality just the way you keep doing. I don’t do peak charging. I do off peak charging. I set the car once when I get it and after that it schedules itself to charge off peak.

            I’m not going to post any more about this since you keep insisting on spewing nonsense, but I would like to know what your problem is. Why are you so obsessed with the Model S? It doesn’t seem normal that a person who isn’t interested in a particular car would want to read articles about it, but you seem obsessive enough not only to want to read articles about a car you claim you have no interest in owning but also to read all the comments. I would think that if you determined that it didn’t meet your needs or work out financially for you, you’d read about cars you might actually want. Instead you keep spewing nonsense and making up numbers as if having actual bills in front of me with actual numbers for what I spend would be less convincing than some jerk on the Internet trying to convince me that my electric bill is double what it says it is or that my my gasoline bills were lower than my statements indicated.

            Since you keep going back to the carpool stickers, you don;’t have a clue about those either or even know what color they are.

          • Christopher DeMorro

            There are paid Internet trolls out there whose job it is to sow disinformation and outright lies about products, political candidates, and even cars.

            I’m not even making this up. See this article here for just one example.

          • jr

            Where are you getting $6.25 per gallon from? Are you bad at math? At 30mpg at $2.99 per gallon for 91 octane what’s your cost per mile? LOL seriously?

            I do follow the Tesla closely because I’m a car guy and I follow battery technology. What I find amusing is the Tesla groupies that claim the Tesla is the next best thing since sliced bread but when you start to get into the numbers their argument breaks down – just like yours.

            You actually haven’t answered my question – Even at $0.16/kw what are you saving on your Tesla really? YOu’re not saving any money – you chose to buy an electric car because #1 you have carpool #2 it’s “cool”.

            I’m not going to argue that it’s cool or not but don’t pretend it’s the ultimate sports sedan when it’s not. There are must better vehicles for less money to get the job done (aside from carpool) of a sports sedan and this is especially true when 91 octane pump is $2.99/gallon. Tesla needs $5 gas and $0.10kw to make sense. Gas is headed in the wrong direction and I can make a good argument electricity is also. With power generation sources like San Onofre offline and Ivanpah losing money – well we can see where this is headed…

          • Haggy

            I already told you where i GOT THE $6.25/GALLON FROM. i PULLED IT OUT OF THIN AIR JUST AS YOU DID WITH THE NUMBERS YOU ARE USING. It costs about 10 cents/kWh. Stop making up numbers. Go away. You are annoying.

          • jr

            LOL I’ve shown you why you don’t pay $0.10 per KW. You just won’t accept it. Most of the EV guys accept $0.20 per KW especially here in So Cali. Most actually run solar panels to offset because it’s all about peak daytime usage. If you have a house, pool, run AC in the summer, etc. you are burning 500+KW normally. Add another 500KW and that puts you at $0.32 for the first 500KW (from $0.19) and the $0.10 your car gets.
            You seem to like to pull numbers out of thin air. I do the math. Check SCE website for more information. All my numbers are derived from factual sources that can be researched. Yours is simply anecdotal. Enjoy burning money on your Tesla S85. We’ll see where we are in 10 years when you need to replace all those 18650 batteries. LOL

          • Christopher DeMorro

            You discredited yourself as soon as you said the 535i costs way less (the hatchback model starts at $60,000!!!) and that it would cost less to maintain.

            The only parts that need replacing on the Tesla Model S, except for the tires, are the windshield wipers. No oil or transmission fluid changes, no bullshit emissions sensors to replace every 50,000 miles.

            You’re grasping at straws, and frankly, it’s a little embarrassing.

        • jr

          I have a lot of problems with your numbers… At $4 per gallon and 25 MPG you’re driving 93 miles per day to work? In a Tesla isn’t that about HALF the charge? At 550kw per month certainly that’s puts you in Tier 2 or Tier 3 ($.28/kw) no?

          So at 25KW per day that is SEVEN DOLLARS ($7) per day for your commute. Having a car that is 30mpg that’s actually about a net even!!!

          • Haggy

            You aren’t going to find a car that’s competitive with a Tesla that gets 25mpg. The one I replaced was lucky to get 18 and I spent about $75/week on gas. That was with commute and everything else. I pay about 10 cents/kwh and have a very good idea of what it costs to charge because they are night rates, the car charges at night, and my bill tells me what I pay for each time period. I now pay about $70/month for electricity and save about $50/month in tolls. Assuming my previous car got for times the MPG, it might have been about even, assuming I don’t factor in tolls. Gas prices dropped, so even if you lob off 25% of my gasoline costs, it’s still not close.

          • jr

            Incorrect again. Any “sports sedan” has comparable performance to the high 13 second quarter mile time and gets 25 mpg – AND we’re talking about drag racing only. The Tesla weighs 4600lbs making it absolutely worthless at the race track, twisties, or any other form of performance. Look at the BMW 535. With direct injection / + forced induction there’s a lot of horsepower to be made at reasonable fuel consumption.

            Where do you pay $0.10 per kwh? Here in So Cal if you’re consuming 500+KW/month that’s tier 3 at $0.28/kwh which completely blows your numbers out of the water. I concur maybe your energy costs are cheap. But for most of the country it’s not.

            Let me guess you’re charging for free and using someone else’s electricity so you haven’t been shifted into Tier 3 yet?

          • Chris

            That’s why god invented the sun and made silicon the 2nd most abundant element on earth…. sunlight (or the panels to convert it) is <$0.04/kWh over ~20 years.

          • jr

            Except even a 5KW system to install is no trivial task and of course storing that energy is another headache.

            From a cost-benefit standpoint Solar + EV can certainly make sense for some drivers but very few and definitely not with a Tesla.

          • Chris

            A 5kW system can be purchased for <$7k… I have a ~10kW system… took a weekend to install. No need to store the power in the near future… sell it to your neighbor.

          • jr

            I suppose that depends on location. If you have a large single story ranch style home with no trees – sure easy peezy. Otherwise it can be a headache. But at the end of the day all this to save what $500 on gas annually?

          • Chris

            No…. all this to not burn >100 gallons of gasoline annually… AND enjoy the best car in the world.

          • jr

            Ok so I have already refuted the Tesla being the best car in the world. It’s actually a very poor car from what it is sold as – a $70k sports sedan.

            As for cost savings if you’re an average SFR with an EV you’re consuming 1000kw of energy monthly meaning you need a ~$15k investment upfront to offset the shift to peak/off-peak usage.

            Basically if you’re buying a Tesla for energy savings – there are none. If you’re buying a Tesla as a sports sedan – it’s not.

            So the only reason to purchase a Tesla is if you need a carpool sticker and cannot stomach driving a Civic CNG or Volt. Economics has very little to do with it.

          • Chris

            Bottom line… only morons and monsters use fossil fuels when alternatives exist… I have no desire to be either…

          • jr

            Great well-thought-out rational argument. Not that I expect any better from the majority of Tesla owners. As a Tesla owner just remember:

            1. Wave the faster car by at the track – you’re the slow car
            2. At the drag strip don’t pull up to any REAL sports sedans (M5, E63 AMG, Panamera GTS, etc.)
            3. Enjoy having to supercharge every 200 miles. The rest of us drive from LA to SF without needing to stop for gas.
            4. Don’t complain when your 18650 battery pack costs $25k to replace because the KWH capacity has reduced 20% and you’re only getting 190 miles per charge

            Oh yeah, say hi to $2.79 Premium gas. LOL

          • Chris

            $2.79/g… ouch… I pay the per mile equivalent of $0.50/g… and I’m responsible enough not for force my kids to pick of the rest of the tab. >60k miles, 2 years and negligible battery degradation… I don’t expect I’ll be complaining much.

          • jr

            No you don’t. You don’t have 5x the cost advantage over gasoline and the fact that you are even throwing out dollar/gallon numbers shows the philosophical myth you are living. The REALITY is that with an upfront investment in a solar system you’re probably paying $0.15 per KW which is a cost savings of about 45% over that of a gasoline powered car. So you save ~$4200 over 100,000 miles (LOL!). With that $4200 savings you are forced to suffer a 4600lbs car that certainly isn’t a sports sedan AND you had to go through all the trouble of putting in solar, charging the damn thing, etc.

            Finally after 200k miles and 8 years down the road where most of us have to deal with perhaps a motor rebuild and new suspension bits you have to deal with replacing a $20-$25k battery (assuming Lithium Ion 18650 gets cheaper – which it may not) and possibly the loss of that carpool subsidy when more fuel cell and alternative energy cars on the road. At that point the depreciation on your Tesla is substantially worse than most cars in its class – you’re already seeing this on Ebay.

            Lets just face it the Tesla is an interesting car but would be pretty worthless without the heavy subsidies and is just not a smart economic investment for what you get. I seriously considered the P85 then realized it was stupid – there’s at least 5 other cars that are better in the price range because at the end of the day relative to the cost of the car energy is cheap.

            Oh yah and a sports sedan it is not.

          • Chris

            *sigh* nope… the math isn’t hard… 10kW x 6hrs/day = 438MWh over 20 year expected life. ~$15k before tax credit. $15k / 400MWh = $0.0375/kWh. That’s BEFORE the 30% tax credit which lowers it to $0.026/kWh. 1kWh = 3 miles. 40 miles = ~13kWh = ~$0.52 AND the cost of solar will likely be 60 years… not 20… further reducing the lifetime cost.

          • jr

            LOL COME ON. YOu are so full of crap. You and I both know those are BS numbers. You’re getting 10KW @ 6 hours per day? On a 10KW system? 365? You live in the Mojave desert? You running liquid nitrogen cooled conductors?

            Solar panels to last 60 years with no degradation?

            LOL. I’m done with this discussion because it’s obviously you don’t really understand solar technology or the costs involved and while you appear to be able to do basic (elementary school) math have no understanding of the realities of solar system design.

          • Chris

            You need to get out more… how old are you? 10… 12? I do live in an area that gets a lot of sun. The US average is ~4.5 hours per day. I get 6; that’s an AVERAGE. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Average That takes into account weather. Turns out that average is actually also somewhat conservative since I generated ~24MWh last year. Why wouldn’t a solar panel last 60+ years? What is there to degrade? The functioning part is crystalline silicon. If moisture stays out the panel keep working. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6v2lDa8Hos

            Ivanpah is a THERMAL plant; It uses heat to make electricity. ALL residential solar is PHOTOVOLTAIC; they convert light directly into electricity.

  • jr

    I grow weary of the green idiots pushing this including the author. That’s NOT a (Lamborghini) Aventador in the video. It’s obviously an old Ferrari Maranello – even the title says ferrari!

    The Aventador would DESTROY the Tesla hands down without even blinking. The P85 is not a fast car, it has a lot of torque but it also has 4600lbs. In the quarter mile it does a respectable ~12.5 but so does every other performance sedan in its price range. Cars like the BMW M5 and E63 destroy it easily.

    On the track the Tesla is an absolute porker – it weights 4600lbs and can only run 5-7 laps before it needs a charge. At least the Tesla owners usually know to wave faster cars by, and the aren’t on the track for long.

    The Tesla is a nice car if you want a luxury car with carpool lane access. A sports car it isn’t.

    • Christopher DeMorro

      I never said it was a Lambo in the video. But the video description, in italics, does compare it to the Aventador. Maybe you should exercise your reading skills on more than just the title next time.

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