Last week, I wrote a post about the EPA’s proposed new-vehicle window stickers, which issue a (controversial) letter-grade to different new cars, and wondered how different cars would actually be graded, in practice.
The first “sample” grades are in…
…let the questions begin.
More cars, and grades C-D, after the jump.
For the most part, there are no real surprises here. The scale seems to be fairly objective, in a “spit out this much CO2 and get this many mpg and you get this grade,” sort of way… but there are still a few nagging questions.
Questions about how, exactly, to rate the mpg of extended-range hybrids, for one example. Questions about ratings for diesels and E85-capable vehicles (which seem absent from the above sample), for another.
I would also like to point out that the EPA didn’t mention any specific vehicles that might get A or A+ ratings—which is a rather curious omission of the Chevy Volt. Has the EPA not tested one, yet—or, as Gas 2.0 editor Nick Chambers opined—are the results a bit less than impressive?
Time will tell.
SOURCE: EPA, via Autoblog.
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They left out one car on the chart which would score an A- and is the cleanest burning ICE in the world, the Honda Civic GX (cng). It’s CO2 is around 200g/mi. Does anyone know what a Prius’s CO2 is? I did read somewhere though that the Honda is cleaner than the hybrid Prius.
They left out one car on the chart which would score an A- and is the cleanest burning ICE in the world, the Honda Civic GX (cng). It’s CO2 is around 200g/mi. Does anyone know what a Prius’s CO2 is? I did read somewhere though that the Honda is cleaner than the hybrid Prius.
Oh, I forgot to mention that I used to use 99.9% pure methane so the CO2 from that is much lower than 200g/mi. That would give the Honda Civic GX an ‘A’!
The 200g figure is for 90% methane. Now, I plan on moving to an ‘A+’ with a LEAF. 
Oh, I forgot to mention that I used to use 99.9% pure methane so the CO2 from that is much lower than 200g/mi. That would give the Honda Civic GX an ‘A’!
The 200g figure is for 90% methane. Now, I plan on moving to an ‘A+’ with a LEAF. 
is there in consideration for the number of passengers that can be carried?
is there in consideration for the number of passengers that can be carried?
Disappointed not to see the VW diesels in there. I don’t know what the current Jetta TDI is rated, but my 2006 diesel New Beetle gets 45mpg ACTUAL on the highway. That’s a solid A- and should get more attention, IMO
Disappointed not to see the VW diesels in there. I don’t know what the current Jetta TDI is rated, but my 2006 diesel New Beetle gets 45mpg ACTUAL on the highway. That’s a solid A- and should get more attention, IMO
I wonder, also, if the EPA will bother to weigh in the emissions caused by electric companies to generate the electricity that powers EVs, or if they’ll stick with their dubious “0″.
I wonder, also, if the EPA will bother to weigh in the emissions caused by electric companies to generate the electricity that powers EVs, or if they’ll stick with their dubious “0″.
I don’t necessarily dislike the idea of a grade scale, but in my opinion, the “curve” they’ve used is a bit too strict (not to mention, exposing an electric-car agenda). Some of the cars in the B and B+ range get fantastic gas mileage (particularly if you have to have a family car). The majority of Americans currently own cars that are in the C to B- range.
Given that, there’s not much incentive to move up to a B or even a B+ (even though if everyone moved there, the USA would be using a LOT less gasoline). I’d move the whole scale up and put the EVs and PHEVs in the same category of A+. A Chevy Cobalt XFE, Honda Fit, Toyota Yaris should all be given at least an A-. Similarly, 4-cyl Malibu, Camry, Accord are all very efficient family cars and should be given a B+, etc.
I don’t necessarily dislike the idea of a grade scale, but in my opinion, the “curve” they’ve used is a bit too strict (not to mention, exposing an electric-car agenda). Some of the cars in the B and B+ range get fantastic gas mileage (particularly if you have to have a family car). The majority of Americans currently own cars that are in the C to B- range.
Given that, there’s not much incentive to move up to a B or even a B+ (even though if everyone moved there, the USA would be using a LOT less gasoline). I’d move the whole scale up and put the EVs and PHEVs in the same category of A+. A Chevy Cobalt XFE, Honda Fit, Toyota Yaris should all be given at least an A-. Similarly, 4-cyl Malibu, Camry, Accord are all very efficient family cars and should be given a B+, etc.
Agree 100% with Tim.
Agree 100% with Tim.
I generate my electicity with a kerosene generator, so even with an electric car, I still get to pollute! Yay me!
I generate my electicity with a kerosene generator, so even with an electric car, I still get to pollute! Yay me!
I don’t need the government to be issuing propaganda in the form of “grades” for cars. I can make my own value judgements without the EPA sticking its nose in, thanks anyway.
I don’t need the government to be issuing propaganda in the form of “grades” for cars. I can make my own value judgements without the EPA sticking its nose in, thanks anyway.
bunchacrap.
Why is the Ford F150 in there? It’s not a car. It’s a truck. So, is the EPA now deciding to engage in mission creep by usurping trucks a little at a time?
And where is the VW TDI diesel? Driving my wife’s I’ve seen the instantaneous consumption meter read close to 100 mpg.
Like I said, bunchacrap. Dump the EPA. Right after we dump the Department of Education.
bunchacrap.
Why is the Ford F150 in there? It’s not a car. It’s a truck. So, is the EPA now deciding to engage in mission creep by usurping trucks a little at a time?
And where is the VW TDI diesel? Driving my wife’s I’ve seen the instantaneous consumption meter read close to 100 mpg.
Like I said, bunchacrap. Dump the EPA. Right after we dump the Department of Education.
If I was grading these vehicles by consumer desire all you would have to do is reverse the list.
For example if all these cars were put on a lot and 100 people had a raffle to take whichever car they wanted, odds are the Ferraris and Mercedes would be the first to go.
The disconnect between the government and the marketplace is growing day by day.
If I was grading these vehicles by consumer desire all you would have to do is reverse the list.
For example if all these cars were put on a lot and 100 people had a raffle to take whichever car they wanted, odds are the Ferraris and Mercedes would be the first to go.
The disconnect between the government and the marketplace is growing day by day.
EPA stands for Environmental Protection Agency. They are not responsible for grading the consumer desire of cars but the impact they have on the environment.
Also, I enjoy the environment and would prefer breathing clean air than own a Mercedes. I hope I am not in the minority.
I see myself mostly shopping in the Cs…
I see myself mostly shopping in the Cs…
Why should I worry how much CO2 come out the tailpipe since there is no proven link between athmospheric CO2 and planetary warming. They seem to think that this plant food is a bad thing. It’s all politics anyway. As many commenters have pointed out, many European disels get over 60mpg, better than the Prius, cheaper too.
Why should I worry how much CO2 come out the tailpipe since there is no proven link between athmospheric CO2 and planetary warming. They seem to think that this plant food is a bad thing. It’s all politics anyway. As many commenters have pointed out, many European disels get over 60mpg, better than the Prius, cheaper too.
I don’t see my Ford Bronco on the list. Must’ve got an F-plus.
Bow down!
I don’t see my Ford Bronco on the list. Must’ve got an F-plus.
Bow down!
Who wants to bet that NO politician, none, zero will be caught driving in anything with a grade higher than C?
Who wants to bet that NO politician, none, zero will be caught driving in anything with a grade higher than C?
Who wants to bet that NO politician, none, zero will be caught driving in anything with a grade higher than C?
Asinine bureacratic mission-creep. (apologies for the triple redundancy). No sense in comparing vehicles in different classes. If you have 3 kids and need a Sienna or other minivan (C) you simply don’t have the option of buying a Prius or Civic hybrid (A-). Even ignoring the storage space, three carseats just don’t fit across the back seat. Not even to mention trucks and their different utility compared to passenger vehicles. An utterly pointless waste of tax dollars.
Asinine bureacratic mission-creep. (apologies for the triple redundancy). No sense in comparing vehicles in different classes. If you have 3 kids and need a Sienna or other minivan (C) you simply don’t have the option of buying a Prius or Civic hybrid (A-). Even ignoring the storage space, three carseats just don’t fit across the back seat. Not even to mention trucks and their different utility compared to passenger vehicles. An utterly pointless waste of tax dollars.
Asinine bureacratic mission-creep. (apologies for the triple redundancy). No sense in comparing vehicles in different classes. If you have 3 kids and need a Sienna or other minivan (C) you simply don’t have the option of buying a Prius or Civic hybrid (A-). Even ignoring the storage space, three carseats just don’t fit across the back seat. Not even to mention trucks and their different utility compared to passenger vehicles. An utterly pointless waste of tax dollars.
Living in an agricultural state with lots of small farms, I have heard many farmers talking about the problems they have with their farm machinery when using ethanol “enhanced” fuel. Driving a Dodge Magnum, I decided to see what effect changing from ethanol-enhanced gas to the the non-ethanol gas of old. Fortunately that fuel is available in my state and my husband is an inveterate record keeper and has recorded all fuel purchases and determines mileage at each fill-up to keep check on the car’s performance. After running the car for 2 years on ethanol enhanced gas, then switching the last 2 years to straight gas, the mileage increased 2 miles per gallon. Now I get about 23 mpg on long trips and 18 mpg in town. And the car is even more responsive to the gas pedal! (It took a while to get the light foot needed for a Magnum after driving a Volvo station wagon for years!)Long story short, when these people rate cars for pollution, do they determine what effect gasoline type has on the motor life? I worked in a research lab for years and ethanol absorbs water out of the air. Are the farmers right and their motors are having shorter lives due to the water introduced via the alcohol component of the gas? If motors do have shorter lives due to ethanol gas, how environmentally friendly is it to put motors and cars into landfills on a more frequent basis? Has anyone published studies on this subject?
Living in an agricultural state with lots of small farms, I have heard many farmers talking about the problems they have with their farm machinery when using ethanol “enhanced” fuel. Driving a Dodge Magnum, I decided to see what effect changing from ethanol-enhanced gas to the the non-ethanol gas of old. Fortunately that fuel is available in my state and my husband is an inveterate record keeper and has recorded all fuel purchases and determines mileage at each fill-up to keep check on the car’s performance. After running the car for 2 years on ethanol enhanced gas, then switching the last 2 years to straight gas, the mileage increased 2 miles per gallon. Now I get about 23 mpg on long trips and 18 mpg in town. And the car is even more responsive to the gas pedal! (It took a while to get the light foot needed for a Magnum after driving a Volvo station wagon for years!)Long story short, when these people rate cars for pollution, do they determine what effect gasoline type has on the motor life? I worked in a research lab for years and ethanol absorbs water out of the air. Are the farmers right and their motors are having shorter lives due to the water introduced via the alcohol component of the gas? If motors do have shorter lives due to ethanol gas, how environmentally friendly is it to put motors and cars into landfills on a more frequent basis? Has anyone published studies on this subject?
Living in an agricultural state with lots of small farms, I have heard many farmers talking about the problems they have with their farm machinery when using ethanol “enhanced” fuel. Driving a Dodge Magnum, I decided to see what effect changing from ethanol-enhanced gas to the the non-ethanol gas of old. Fortunately that fuel is available in my state and my husband is an inveterate record keeper and has recorded all fuel purchases and determines mileage at each fill-up to keep check on the car’s performance. After running the car for 2 years on ethanol enhanced gas, then switching the last 2 years to straight gas, the mileage increased 2 miles per gallon. Now I get about 23 mpg on long trips and 18 mpg in town. And the car is even more responsive to the gas pedal! (It took a while to get the light foot needed for a Magnum after driving a Volvo station wagon for years!)Long story short, when these people rate cars for pollution, do they determine what effect gasoline type has on the motor life? I worked in a research lab for years and ethanol absorbs water out of the air. Are the farmers right and their motors are having shorter lives due to the water introduced via the alcohol component of the gas? If motors do have shorter lives due to ethanol gas, how environmentally friendly is it to put motors and cars into landfills on a more frequent basis? Has anyone published studies on this subject?
Paul said: So, is the EPA now deciding to engage in mission creep by usurping trucks a little at a time?
The EPA has no “cars but not trucks” mission; 49 USC 32908 says they are to do economy labeling for anything with a GVW under 8500 pounds.
The F-150 is rated at under 8500 pounds. The EPA was supposed to and has included “light-duty” trucks in their calculations; it’s just that “light-duty” and “full-size” overlap.
Paul said: So, is the EPA now deciding to engage in mission creep by usurping trucks a little at a time?
The EPA has no “cars but not trucks” mission; 49 USC 32908 says they are to do economy labeling for anything with a GVW under 8500 pounds.
The F-150 is rated at under 8500 pounds. The EPA was supposed to and has included “light-duty” trucks in their calculations; it’s just that “light-duty” and “full-size” overlap.
God I hate myself for this, but I cannot help but feel that this grading system will do nothing but force me to constantly try to get a C or below vehicle.
Seriously though, the EPA just does not get it do they? Very few people buy vehicles purely on efficiency or emissions standards alone. So this grading metric does nothing but cater to a small segment of the car buying population. They would have been better off developing some calculation that incorporated emissions standards, mpg, cost, vehicle life, and cost savings to grade they vehicle on an economic efficiency standard. Then the grade would actually mean something to a much larger segment of the population. Now, its just fodder for anti-establishment advertising.
God I hate myself for this, but I cannot help but feel that this grading system will do nothing but force me to constantly try to get a C or below vehicle.
Seriously though, the EPA just does not get it do they? Very few people buy vehicles purely on efficiency or emissions standards alone. So this grading metric does nothing but cater to a small segment of the car buying population. They would have been better off developing some calculation that incorporated emissions standards, mpg, cost, vehicle life, and cost savings to grade they vehicle on an economic efficiency standard. Then the grade would actually mean something to a much larger segment of the population. Now, its just fodder for anti-establishment advertising.
God I hate myself for this, but I cannot help but feel that this grading system will do nothing but force me to constantly try to get a C or below vehicle.
Seriously though, the EPA just does not get it do they? Very few people buy vehicles purely on efficiency or emissions standards alone. So this grading metric does nothing but cater to a small segment of the car buying population. They would have been better off developing some calculation that incorporated emissions standards, mpg, cost, vehicle life, and cost savings to grade they vehicle on an economic efficiency standard. Then the grade would actually mean something to a much larger segment of the population. Now, its just fodder for anti-establishment advertising.
Only the government would come up with a system that gives the Ferrari Enzo a grade of “F”. Stupid government.