Diesels Cleaner Than Electrics Over Lifetime Says One Study

 

I’m going to go out on a limb and assume most of our dear readers are fans of fuel efficient cars. I too, like my gas-sipping 4-cylinder Mustang, mostly because it saves me a lot of money compared with the rest of my gas-guzzling fleet. Other people are just trying to lessen their carbon footprint, and common sense suggests that an electric car would have a smaller footprint than any fossil fuel-powered car, right?

Not according to one Swiss study. Compared to diesel-powered cars that get over 60 mpg, electric vehicles may have a larger environmental impact… especially if the electricity comes from non-renewable sources.





The study was done by the Swiss Federal Laboratories for Materials Science and Technology. Technology requires a lot of rare earth elements and minerals, many of which I couldn’t even pronounce. While batteries tend to have a comparatively small amount of these minerals, add them up over a few million vehicles and you have a substantial amount of hard-to-get resources. The thing is, electric cars are much simpler devices, as electric motors have just a few moving parts and require a lot less materials. Diesel engines, however, are also rather simple, and get great gas mileage. They also don’t require any “exotic” materials.

It is not the batteries that give electric vehicles a larger carbon footprint though. It is the electricity, most of which still comes from non-renewable sources across the world. Plugging in a lot of electric cars might not bring down the electrical grid, but if you get power from a coal-plant, that coal plant has to make X amount more power to fill your car. Diesel still comes from far away, but if you can get 60 mpg out of a diesel, it is more “beneficial” to the environment than an electric car, according to the study.

This study does come with some caveats. For example, the test assumes two batteries (one every 75,000 miles) over the lifetime of the electric car, and a range of 125 miles. The study also didn’t factor in battery recycling, and likely didn’t take into consideration that electric cars will likely be driven a lot less often than their petrol-powered cousins.

Source: Green Car Advisor | Image: Nissan





About the Author

A writer and gearhead who loves all things automotive, from hybrids to HEMIs, can be found wrenching or writing- or else, he's running, because he's one of those crazy people who gets enjoyment from running insane distances.
  • Tim Cleland

    I’ve heard from two different expert sources (one of whom is my cousin, an engineer, who manages a coal-power plant in MI, the other an energy scientist giving a seminar where I work) that, as long as the cars were being charged at night (i.e. off peak hours) the electricity needed to charge the cars is practically free. That is, the coal-power plants are currently running very inefficiently at night. With enough batteries to absorb the extra energy, the power plants could increase output (with very little extra input) and run at a much more efficient level.

    Right now, they can’t do that because if they operate at peak efficiency, they’re putting out too much and everyone’s clocks, refrigerators, etc. (anything that gets left on over night) would burn out (and possibly burn up) from the extra power.**

    I have a feeling, once that gets factored in, the e-cars will come out on top again.

    **This is also why windmills operating at night don’t currently help save much, if any, energy…the power plant just has to put out less, but they’re still burning approximately the same amount of coal. It seems electric cars (with enough of them, anyway) would provide a “sink” to help wind power become more relevant. Once I heard all this, I became a new proponent for electric cars. By the way, at least in the case of my cousin, he’s not anything close to an enviro-weisel. He’s an extremely bright, level-headed guy with a libertarian/conservative bent.

  • Tim Cleland

    I’ve heard from two different expert sources (one of whom is my cousin, an engineer, who manages a coal-power plant in MI, the other an energy scientist giving a seminar where I work) that, as long as the cars were being charged at night (i.e. off peak hours) the electricity needed to charge the cars is practically free. That is, the coal-power plants are currently running very inefficiently at night. With enough batteries to absorb the extra energy, the power plants could increase output (with very little extra input) and run at a much more efficient level.

    Right now, they can’t do that because if they operate at peak efficiency, they’re putting out too much and everyone’s clocks, refrigerators, etc. (anything that gets left on over night) would burn out (and possibly burn up) from the extra power.**

    I have a feeling, once that gets factored in, the e-cars will come out on top again.

    **This is also why windmills operating at night don’t currently help save much, if any, energy…the power plant just has to put out less, but they’re still burning approximately the same amount of coal. It seems electric cars (with enough of them, anyway) would provide a “sink” to help wind power become more relevant. Once I heard all this, I became a new proponent for electric cars. By the way, at least in the case of my cousin, he’s not anything close to an enviro-weisel. He’s an extremely bright, level-headed guy with a libertarian/conservative bent.

  • I don’t know why there isn’t more emphasis on diesel vehicles. Everyone is too busy jumping up and down about electric vehicles.

  • I don’t know why there isn’t more emphasis on diesel vehicles. Everyone is too busy jumping up and down about electric vehicles.

  • PL

    Sorry but I don’t buy this so called study one bit. Just the fact that diesel is derived from the dirtiest fuel with the most catastrophic consequences for our environment negates all argument for diesel. Simply put there’s no room for dirty oil in our future, period.

  • PL

    Sorry but I don’t buy this so called study one bit. Just the fact that diesel is derived from the dirtiest fuel with the most catastrophic consequences for our environment negates all argument for diesel. Simply put there’s no room for dirty oil in our future, period.

  • PL

    Sorry but I don’t buy this so called study one bit. Just the fact that diesel is derived from the dirtiest fuel with the most catastrophic consequences for our environment negates all argument for diesel. Simply put there’s no room for dirty oil in our future, period.

  • EGM

    What a bunch of BS.

    DIESELS MAKE ME SICK.

    Literally, every diesel I’ve ever seen is a soot-belching, smoke-spewing monstrosity and every time I follow one my head aches, eyes scratch, throat gets raw, and I feel like puking!

    BAN DIESELS

    Or maybe they should be forced to put their exhaust pipes in front so the drivers can see and smell their own crap.

  • EGM

    What a bunch of BS.

    DIESELS MAKE ME SICK.

    Literally, every diesel I’ve ever seen is a soot-belching, smoke-spewing monstrosity and every time I follow one my head aches, eyes scratch, throat gets raw, and I feel like puking!

    BAN DIESELS

    Or maybe they should be forced to put their exhaust pipes in front so the drivers can see and smell their own crap.

  • EGM

    What a bunch of BS.

    DIESELS MAKE ME SICK.

    Literally, every diesel I’ve ever seen is a soot-belching, smoke-spewing monstrosity and every time I follow one my head aches, eyes scratch, throat gets raw, and I feel like puking!

    BAN DIESELS

    Or maybe they should be forced to put their exhaust pipes in front so the drivers can see and smell their own crap.

  • SteveF

    There are so many caveats in the study that one would need a great deal of time to read this to understand what the conclusions could be.

    In addition, it seems to assume that coal is a primary power source. While that is true in many regions, it sure is not universally true.

    This seems a little more on the sensational side, than the informative side.

  • SteveF

    There are so many caveats in the study that one would need a great deal of time to read this to understand what the conclusions could be.

    In addition, it seems to assume that coal is a primary power source. While that is true in many regions, it sure is not universally true.

    This seems a little more on the sensational side, than the informative side.

  • Bob

    Given that EV’s use coal as an energy source what would be the effect of the Chinese adopting ICE vehicles instead of EV’s? The Chinese are polluting the atmosphere with coal-fired power plants at an alarming rate. A new study by researchers from the Argonne National Laboratory and China’s Tsinghua University concludes that widespread use of electric vehicles in China could result in higher greenhouse-gas emissions as well as sulfur dioxide (a key ingredient in acid rain) than from conventional and hybrid gasoline vehicles. This study shows that Mass adoption of EVs in China will lead to tremendously higher emissions: http://green.autoblog.com/2010/05/30/study-mass-adoption-of-evs-in-china-will-lead-to-tremendously-h/

  • Bob

    From The National Energy Education Development Project: “…..about two-thirds (2/3) of the electricity produced in our power plants never reaches potential users because of losses in energy conversion and transmission.”

  • Bob

    From The National Energy Education Development Project: “…..about two-thirds (2/3) of the electricity produced in our power plants never reaches potential users because of losses in energy conversion and transmission.”

  • Bob

    Given that EV’s use coal as an energy source what would be the effect of the Chinese adopting ICE vehicles instead of EV’s? The Chinese are polluting the atmosphere with coal-fired power plants at an alarming rate. A new study by researchers from the Argonne National Laboratory and China’s Tsinghua University concludes that widespread use of electric vehicles in China could result in higher greenhouse-gas emissions as well as sulfur dioxide (a key ingredient in acid rain) than from conventional and hybrid gasoline vehicles. This study shows that Mass adoption of EVs in China will lead to tremendously higher emissions: http://green.autoblog.com/2010/05/30/study-mass-adoption-of-evs-in-china-will-lead-to-tremendously-h/

  • Bob

    From The National Energy Education Development Project: “…..about two-thirds (2/3) of the electricity produced in our power plants never reaches potential users because of losses in energy conversion and transmission.”

  • Bob

    GREENPEACE States: “Electricity production in the UK is responsible for a third of our carbon emissions. This is the UK’s single greatest contribution to climate change……In a centralised energy system, 61.5 units out of 100 are lost through inefficient generation and heat wastage at the source. A further 3.5 units are lost through transmission lines and distribution and 13 units wasted through inefficient end use. Altogether more than two thirds of energy available from fossil fuels is wasted…….It is sometimes claimed, fatalistically, that efforts to stabilise the climate will be overwhelmed by China burning its coal reserves.”

  • Bob

    GREENPEACE States: “Electricity production in the UK is responsible for a third of our carbon emissions. This is the UK’s single greatest contribution to climate change……In a centralised energy system, 61.5 units out of 100 are lost through inefficient generation and heat wastage at the source. A further 3.5 units are lost through transmission lines and distribution and 13 units wasted through inefficient end use. Altogether more than two thirds of energy available from fossil fuels is wasted…….It is sometimes claimed, fatalistically, that efforts to stabilise the climate will be overwhelmed by China burning its coal reserves.”

  • Bob

    If a diesel is blowing black smoke it is wasting fuel, polluting the atmosphere, and needs attention. Perhaps you have been riding behind some old diesels that will be off the road soon. Smart operators don’t want dirty burning diesels any more than the rest of us since a dirty diesel is costing them more cash. The new diesels aren’t like that and they are very clean. I can relate to hating bad odors, though, since riding behind a gasoline powered car that has problems makes me sick too. If your car stinks then it needs to be repaired, regardless of whether it is diesel or gas. There is one fuel I know of that is much dirtier than diesel fuel, and that is coal! And what are our power plants using for fuel? Nearly 50% of them are burning coal, and this is what is charging your EV battery pack. So, in effect, your EV runs on coal……….It’s just polluting elsewhere, thus earning the nickname, Elsewhere Vehicle (EV).

  • Bob

    If a diesel is blowing black smoke it is wasting fuel, polluting the atmosphere, and needs attention. Perhaps you have been riding behind some old diesels that will be off the road soon. Smart operators don’t want dirty burning diesels any more than the rest of us since a dirty diesel is costing them more cash. The new diesels aren’t like that and they are very clean. I can relate to hating bad odors, though, since riding behind a gasoline powered car that has problems makes me sick too. If your car stinks then it needs to be repaired, regardless of whether it is diesel or gas. There is one fuel I know of that is much dirtier than diesel fuel, and that is coal! And what are our power plants using for fuel? Nearly 50% of them are burning coal, and this is what is charging your EV battery pack. So, in effect, your EV runs on coal……….It’s just polluting elsewhere, thus earning the nickname, Elsewhere Vehicle (EV).

  • Bob

    If a diesel is blowing black smoke it is wasting fuel, polluting the atmosphere, and needs attention. Perhaps you have been riding behind some old diesels that will be off the road soon. Smart operators don’t want dirty burning diesels any more than the rest of us since a dirty diesel is costing them more cash. The new diesels aren’t like that and they are very clean. I can relate to hating bad odors, though, since riding behind a gasoline powered car that has problems makes me sick too. If your car stinks then it needs to be repaired, regardless of whether it is diesel or gas. There is one fuel I know of that is much dirtier than diesel fuel, and that is coal! And what are our power plants using for fuel? Nearly 50% of them are burning coal, and this is what is charging your EV battery pack. So, in effect, your EV runs on coal……….It’s just polluting elsewhere, thus earning the nickname, Elsewhere Vehicle (EV).

  • If CO2 is the concern, coal plants have to go anyway, electric cars or not. And as others have pointed out, if your source of electricity is natural gas, solar, nuclear, wind, or hydro, you are way good. Should we wait on producing electric cars until we eliminate coal, or do both simultaneously?

    the stupid …it burns.

  • If CO2 is the concern, coal plants have to go anyway, electric cars or not. And as others have pointed out, if your source of electricity is natural gas, solar, nuclear, wind, or hydro, you are way good. Should we wait on producing electric cars until we eliminate coal, or do both simultaneously?

    the stupid …it burns.

  • I love all these “diesel sucks” comments. These are people who don’t know anything about nothing much. I’d also question the author’s assumptions about this study, which tell me he hasn’t actually read it.

    Yet another dumb article based on a press release.. oh wait, not even on a press release, but on ANOTHER site’s article…

    Besides, the study doesn’t say what Edmunds (your source) says it does. It says the petroleum-fueled car must get at least 70mpg. Here, read it:

    http://www.empa.ch/plugin/template/empa/3/99149/—/l=2

    Yet again some blogger (this time at what should be considered a good source) reads the first paragraph of a press release based on a study and writes a blog. Then everyone else piles on and nobody bothers to go to the original source.

    Assuming this is the study to which all of this refers, which is the closest thing on EMPA I could find. I doubt I’m wrong. The study doesn’t even use diesel cars, it uses petrol cars (i.e. gasoline) and says they have to reach 70mpg to match a li-ion BEV in efficiency using the European mix of electrical sources.

  • I love all these “diesel sucks” comments. These are people who don’t know anything about nothing much. I’d also question the author’s assumptions about this study, which tell me he hasn’t actually read it.

    Yet another dumb article based on a press release.. oh wait, not even on a press release, but on ANOTHER site’s article…

    Besides, the study doesn’t say what Edmunds (your source) says it does. It says the petroleum-fueled car must get at least 70mpg. Here, read it:

    http://www.empa.ch/plugin/template/empa/3/99149/—/l=2

    Yet again some blogger (this time at what should be considered a good source) reads the first paragraph of a press release based on a study and writes a blog. Then everyone else piles on and nobody bothers to go to the original source.

    Assuming this is the study to which all of this refers, which is the closest thing on EMPA I could find. I doubt I’m wrong. The study doesn’t even use diesel cars, it uses petrol cars (i.e. gasoline) and says they have to reach 70mpg to match a li-ion BEV in efficiency using the European mix of electrical sources.

  • I love all these “diesel sucks” comments. These are people who don’t know anything about nothing much. I’d also question the author’s assumptions about this study, which tell me he hasn’t actually read it.

    Yet another dumb article based on a press release.. oh wait, not even on a press release, but on ANOTHER site’s article…

    Besides, the study doesn’t say what Edmunds (your source) says it does. It says the petroleum-fueled car must get at least 70mpg. Here, read it:

    http://www.empa.ch/plugin/template/empa/3/99149/—/l=2

    Yet again some blogger (this time at what should be considered a good source) reads the first paragraph of a press release based on a study and writes a blog. Then everyone else piles on and nobody bothers to go to the original source.

    Assuming this is the study to which all of this refers, which is the closest thing on EMPA I could find. I doubt I’m wrong. The study doesn’t even use diesel cars, it uses petrol cars (i.e. gasoline) and says they have to reach 70mpg to match a li-ion BEV in efficiency using the European mix of electrical sources.

  • Bob

    There is a good reason why we burn coal in our power plants. It’s relatively cheap and plentiful. It can also be cleaned up a lot more than it is now. And the efficiency can be greatly improved. Presently, according to the DOE, coal-fired power plants are just 30% efficient with a forecasted doubling of the efficiency over the next 10-15 years. This would help somewhat but it seems like we may be able to do better. Concerning EV’s, we already have efficient electric motors and we already have many different types of cars to fit them into. What we don’t have is an efficient power infrastructure, starting with the inefficient use of coal to recharge batteries. Nor do we have batteries that will compete with the range of a gasoline or diesel powered vehicle without recharging. So, the way I see it we should be focusing more on improving the efficiency of the power plants and the batteries if we want to use electric cars to satisfy more of our transportation needs. There are other considerations, of course. Many feel that to trade our dependence on foreign oil for a dependence on foreign rare Earth elements to produce batteries as well as depending on foreign batteries would be a big mistake.

  • Bob

    There is a good reason why we burn coal in our power plants. It’s relatively cheap and plentiful. It can also be cleaned up a lot more than it is now. And the efficiency can be greatly improved. Presently, according to the DOE, coal-fired power plants are just 30% efficient with a forecasted doubling of the efficiency over the next 10-15 years. This would help somewhat but it seems like we may be able to do better. Concerning EV’s, we already have efficient electric motors and we already have many different types of cars to fit them into. What we don’t have is an efficient power infrastructure, starting with the inefficient use of coal to recharge batteries. Nor do we have batteries that will compete with the range of a gasoline or diesel powered vehicle without recharging. So, the way I see it we should be focusing more on improving the efficiency of the power plants and the batteries if we want to use electric cars to satisfy more of our transportation needs. There are other considerations, of course. Many feel that to trade our dependence on foreign oil for a dependence on foreign rare Earth elements to produce batteries as well as depending on foreign batteries would be a big mistake.

  • This is Propaganda. There is very easy way to find out which has a bigger carbon footprint. it is not accurate but easy.

    Just look at the price per mile. if driving an electric car is cheaper per mile it is very unlikely that you have spent too much resources like coal and rare materials. The reality is that car engines(even diesel) are very inefficient. I have read a study where they said that if you burn the diesel in thermal power plant and use the electricity to drive the car, you will get twice the mileage. using coal will be even cheaper, but again you should get at least half of the CO2 emission of an diesel engine.

  • This is Propaganda. There is very easy way to find out which has a bigger carbon footprint. it is not accurate but easy.

    Just look at the price per mile. if driving an electric car is cheaper per mile it is very unlikely that you have spent too much resources like coal and rare materials. The reality is that car engines(even diesel) are very inefficient. I have read a study where they said that if you burn the diesel in thermal power plant and use the electricity to drive the car, you will get twice the mileage. using coal will be even cheaper, but again you should get at least half of the CO2 emission of an diesel engine.

  • Alex

    these comments suck

  • Alex

    these comments suck

  • Alex

    these comments suck

  • Bob

    @Ivaylo: That sounds like an easy method alright but a few of the important points left out are the emissions and inefficiencies at the power plant and beyond that recharges the battery pack. When you calculate the mine to power pack vs. the well to wheel costs and emissions you’ll find the diesels way ahead of the EV’s.

  • Bob

    @Ivaylo: That sounds like an easy method alright but a few of the important points left out are the emissions and inefficiencies at the power plant and beyond that recharges the battery pack. When you calculate the mine to power pack vs. the well to wheel costs and emissions you’ll find the diesels way ahead of the EV’s.

  • Bob

    @Ivaylo: That sounds like an easy method alright but a few of the important points left out are the emissions and inefficiencies at the power plant and beyond that recharges the battery pack. When you calculate the mine to power pack vs. the well to wheel costs and emissions you’ll find the diesels way ahead of the EV’s.

  • Nice work Aaron,

    You took the words right out of my mouth and thanks for the link (that neither article bothered to provide).

  • Nice work Aaron,

    You took the words right out of my mouth and thanks for the link (that neither article bothered to provide).

  • Nice work Aaron,

    You took the words right out of my mouth and thanks for the link (that neither article bothered to provide).

  • Bob,

    You are dependent of foreign made computers to type comments on the internet. Why doesn’t that keep you up at night?

    Give us a link to your calculations showing fossil fueled cars are way ahead of EVs. I’ve seen several studies on this subject, and only EVs powered by coal are worse than high mileage fossil fueled cars like TDI diesels and hybrids. They still beat regular cars.

    Developing electric cars needs to be done in parallel with the elimination of coal, and my power comes from hydro electric.

  • Bob,

    You are dependent of foreign made computers to type comments on the internet. Why doesn’t that keep you up at night?

    Give us a link to your calculations showing fossil fueled cars are way ahead of EVs. I’ve seen several studies on this subject, and only EVs powered by coal are worse than high mileage fossil fueled cars like TDI diesels and hybrids. They still beat regular cars.

    Developing electric cars needs to be done in parallel with the elimination of coal, and my power comes from hydro electric.

  • Bob,

    You are dependent of foreign made computers to type comments on the internet. Why doesn’t that keep you up at night?

    Give us a link to your calculations showing fossil fueled cars are way ahead of EVs. I’ve seen several studies on this subject, and only EVs powered by coal are worse than high mileage fossil fueled cars like TDI diesels and hybrids. They still beat regular cars.

    Developing electric cars needs to be done in parallel with the elimination of coal, and my power comes from hydro electric.

  • Bob

    If you like to comment about EV’s vs. diesels visit this site too. It will only accept comments for a couple more days. Let me warn you though. Don’t ask any embarassing questions about the Chinese Zap car or you will be quickly blocked from the site. The Chinese must be pulling the strings there.

    There is just one diesel in the competition, The Vincitore’.

    My question yesterday evening:

    “You mean to tell me that you’ve locked up 65% of the votes at this site and don’t have the car to sell? Can you tell us what type of person wants to buy an Alias? i.e. Tell us something about the people who are voting for your car. I don’t see any comments to support the number of votes you have garnered. It just doesn’t seem to make sense. I’m not putting you or your company down. It’s just mind boggling to me. Thanks in advance for your answer.”

    Shortly after commenting I was blocked from the site and 5 hours of comments were erased. It’s like living in a communist state, isn’t it?

    Here’s the site. If you visit I hope you can vote for the Vincitore’.

    http://www.progressiveautoxprize.org/fan-favorites

  • Bob

    If you like to comment about EV’s vs. diesels visit this site too. It will only accept comments for a couple more days. Let me warn you though. Don’t ask any embarassing questions about the Chinese Zap car or you will be quickly blocked from the site. The Chinese must be pulling the strings there.

    There is just one diesel in the competition, The Vincitore’.

    My question yesterday evening:

    “You mean to tell me that you’ve locked up 65% of the votes at this site and don’t have the car to sell? Can you tell us what type of person wants to buy an Alias? i.e. Tell us something about the people who are voting for your car. I don’t see any comments to support the number of votes you have garnered. It just doesn’t seem to make sense. I’m not putting you or your company down. It’s just mind boggling to me. Thanks in advance for your answer.”

    Shortly after commenting I was blocked from the site and 5 hours of comments were erased. It’s like living in a communist state, isn’t it?

    Here’s the site. If you visit I hope you can vote for the Vincitore’.

    http://www.progressiveautoxprize.org/fan-favorites

  • Bob

    @Russ: Good Question! Sad truth is that America has been losing it’s industrial capabilities for years and this continues today unabated. Years ago, like many people now still do, I used to ignore the fact that so many jobs were moving out of the Country. Now, it’s become painfully obvious that was a big mistake. This is one of the main reasons why so many of our people are now out of work, losing their homes, or are forced to work demeaning jobs that offer them neither a challenge nor job satisfaction. That’s also the reason why you and I, and all our friends, will be paying more and more taxes. That’s because there will be fewer workers paying taxes so each must carry a heavier burden. Want to fix it? Tax Chinese imports heavily. That will pay off our debt to them quickly and also bring back jobs to the U.S. Then we can be typing on an American made computer and our neighbors will be able to keep their homes.

  • Bob

    @Russ: Good Question! Sad truth is that America has been losing it’s industrial capabilities for years and this continues today unabated. Years ago, like many people now still do, I used to ignore the fact that so many jobs were moving out of the Country. Now, it’s become painfully obvious that was a big mistake. This is one of the main reasons why so many of our people are now out of work, losing their homes, or are forced to work demeaning jobs that offer them neither a challenge nor job satisfaction. That’s also the reason why you and I, and all our friends, will be paying more and more taxes. That’s because there will be fewer workers paying taxes so each must carry a heavier burden. Want to fix it? Tax Chinese imports heavily. That will pay off our debt to them quickly and also bring back jobs to the U.S. Then we can be typing on an American made computer and our neighbors will be able to keep their homes.

  • AC

    Bunch of baloney! The rare-earth’s mined in a car battery are only mined once per car as opposed to the gas or diesel. Charging electric cars can be easily done with off-peak energy currently being wasted from Nuclear plants or go SOLAR!

  • AC

    Bunch of baloney! The rare-earth’s mined in a car battery are only mined once per car as opposed to the gas or diesel. Charging electric cars can be easily done with off-peak energy currently being wasted from Nuclear plants or go SOLAR!

  • AC

    Bunch of baloney! The rare-earth’s mined in a car battery are only mined once per car as opposed to the gas or diesel. Charging electric cars can be easily done with off-peak energy currently being wasted from Nuclear plants or go SOLAR!

  • Alex

    Bob,

    I’ll tell you why you were blocked, its because you keep running your mouth about crap and no one wants to see 100 separate comments just from you.

  • Alex

    Bob,

    I’ll tell you why you were blocked, its because you keep running your mouth about crap and no one wants to see 100 separate comments just from you.

  • Alex

    Bob,

    I’ll tell you why you were blocked, its because you keep running your mouth about crap and no one wants to see 100 separate comments just from you.

  • Alex

    Bob,

    You know what american made means? i’ll tell you since i work for a company that produces 50% of “american made” products for US consuption: “american made” means 80% made by illegal immigrants 20% made by “real” americans who probably don’t vote and don’t make enough money to actually survive. end of rant.

  • Alex

    Bob,

    You know what american made means? i’ll tell you since i work for a company that produces 50% of “american made” products for US consuption: “american made” means 80% made by illegal immigrants 20% made by “real” americans who probably don’t vote and don’t make enough money to actually survive. end of rant.

  • Alex

    Bob,

    You know what american made means? i’ll tell you since i work for a company that produces 50% of “american made” products for US consuption: “american made” means 80% made by illegal immigrants 20% made by “real” americans who probably don’t vote and don’t make enough money to actually survive. end of rant.

  • Bob

    Hi Alex,

    Are you the Alex that is connected to The Zap Motor Company? The company manufacturing the Chinese electric cars?

    BITW Technologies Vincitore’ diesel car is greatly outnumbered at any liberal site. The Vincitore’ is the ONLY diesel left standing associated with pia xp. Diesels are considered the work of the Devil by the libs while EV’s are the holy grail. The rest of us are trying to keep an open mind and believe each technology has something to offer the American Public. One thing I’ve noticed is that when trying to discuss facts with a liberal or with a communist and things are going against them they always want to label you as an enemy of the State and have you silenced. Have you noticed that too Alex?

    All of us should be able to honestly discuss freely both sides of the argument, whether EV’s or Diesels are best for the American environment. That way all the dirt and the clean are put out for everyone to see and make their own decisions.

    If you are familiar with or perhaps even one of the major or minor players at Zap perhaps you can answer my question above about Zap.

  • Bob

    Hi Alex,

    Are you the Alex that is connected to The Zap Motor Company? The company manufacturing the Chinese electric cars?

    BITW Technologies Vincitore’ diesel car is greatly outnumbered at any liberal site. The Vincitore’ is the ONLY diesel left standing associated with pia xp. Diesels are considered the work of the Devil by the libs while EV’s are the holy grail. The rest of us are trying to keep an open mind and believe each technology has something to offer the American Public. One thing I’ve noticed is that when trying to discuss facts with a liberal or with a communist and things are going against them they always want to label you as an enemy of the State and have you silenced. Have you noticed that too Alex?

    All of us should be able to honestly discuss freely both sides of the argument, whether EV’s or Diesels are best for the American environment. That way all the dirt and the clean are put out for everyone to see and make their own decisions.

    If you are familiar with or perhaps even one of the major or minor players at Zap perhaps you can answer my question above about Zap.

  • Alex

    No i don’t know anything about this “Zap”. Like i said, i work for a company that has a manufacturing plant attached to the main office where i work, so i take 5 steps, walk through a door and i can see all the “americans” hard at work making products for sale that say “made in USA” so that people dead-set on buying products made by americans can keep on living their delusion that they are doing something better for our country. in truth, companies will do whatever makes them the most profit they do not care how or where it is made. if you want to think that EVs are “bad” because they are made in a foreign country your priorities are all mixed up.

    if you want to go ahead and start working in a manufacturing plant making minimum wage be my guest. until they start paying everyone in the world the same salary you will only see things being made by children getting paid nothing in china or immigrants in america getting minimum wage.

  • Alex

    No i don’t know anything about this “Zap”. Like i said, i work for a company that has a manufacturing plant attached to the main office where i work, so i take 5 steps, walk through a door and i can see all the “americans” hard at work making products for sale that say “made in USA” so that people dead-set on buying products made by americans can keep on living their delusion that they are doing something better for our country. in truth, companies will do whatever makes them the most profit they do not care how or where it is made. if you want to think that EVs are “bad” because they are made in a foreign country your priorities are all mixed up.

    if you want to go ahead and start working in a manufacturing plant making minimum wage be my guest. until they start paying everyone in the world the same salary you will only see things being made by children getting paid nothing in china or immigrants in america getting minimum wage.

  • Alex

    No i don’t know anything about this “Zap”. Like i said, i work for a company that has a manufacturing plant attached to the main office where i work, so i take 5 steps, walk through a door and i can see all the “americans” hard at work making products for sale that say “made in USA” so that people dead-set on buying products made by americans can keep on living their delusion that they are doing something better for our country. in truth, companies will do whatever makes them the most profit they do not care how or where it is made. if you want to think that EVs are “bad” because they are made in a foreign country your priorities are all mixed up.

    if you want to go ahead and start working in a manufacturing plant making minimum wage be my guest. until they start paying everyone in the world the same salary you will only see things being made by children getting paid nothing in china or immigrants in america getting minimum wage.

  • Bob

    @Alex:

    It isn’t that way at all in many parts of the Country. We go to work and see American citizens of all types, as well as legal workers from other countries, busily at work in the small factories and other businesses. And the important thing is that they are paying taxes just like you and me, even if they are visitors from other countries.

    You misunderstand what I am stating about buying from foreign countries. The quality of an EV or anything else made in China depends on the quality control of the work processes as well as the quality of materials that go into the product. If your quality control (quality assurance, process improvement, or whatever you want to label it) stinks then it matters not if your materials are the best. The product will still stink. The reverse is also true, bad materials + good quality control = stinking product. Same goes for management. Bad management will always result in less than what you can expect with good management.

    All I’m saying is that if we continue buying foreign made products eventually we will no longer be able to buy as many because many of our people will be drawing unemployment. It’s already happening.

  • Bob

    @Alex:

    It isn’t that way at all in many parts of the Country. We go to work and see American citizens of all types, as well as legal workers from other countries, busily at work in the small factories and other businesses. And the important thing is that they are paying taxes just like you and me, even if they are visitors from other countries.

    You misunderstand what I am stating about buying from foreign countries. The quality of an EV or anything else made in China depends on the quality control of the work processes as well as the quality of materials that go into the product. If your quality control (quality assurance, process improvement, or whatever you want to label it) stinks then it matters not if your materials are the best. The product will still stink. The reverse is also true, bad materials + good quality control = stinking product. Same goes for management. Bad management will always result in less than what you can expect with good management.

    All I’m saying is that if we continue buying foreign made products eventually we will no longer be able to buy as many because many of our people will be drawing unemployment. It’s already happening.

  • Bob

    @Alex:

    It isn’t that way at all in many parts of the Country. We go to work and see American citizens of all types, as well as legal workers from other countries, busily at work in the small factories and other businesses. And the important thing is that they are paying taxes just like you and me, even if they are visitors from other countries.

    You misunderstand what I am stating about buying from foreign countries. The quality of an EV or anything else made in China depends on the quality control of the work processes as well as the quality of materials that go into the product. If your quality control (quality assurance, process improvement, or whatever you want to label it) stinks then it matters not if your materials are the best. The product will still stink. The reverse is also true, bad materials + good quality control = stinking product. Same goes for management. Bad management will always result in less than what you can expect with good management.

    All I’m saying is that if we continue buying foreign made products eventually we will no longer be able to buy as many because many of our people will be drawing unemployment. It’s already happening.

  • Deebirs

    Who has a 60mpg diesel? Do you? Does anyone in america have one (that they bought “off the shelf”). Can you buy them? NO.

    No one makes them for sale here. You have to alter your own, which MOST americans aren’t willing or capable of doing. Smart made a damned-efficient ForTwo, but they weren’t allowed to bring it to america. Mercedes makes a few “blue” engines, but they, too, are out of the reach of common americans.

    This blogger is consistently down on electric vehicles. He pulls up any bit of crap against them that he can, but provides no solutions (in article form). Not only is there pollution at the pipe of a diesel car (though not as much in modern diesels as some commenters would have you believe), but there is also pollution during production. That doesn’t seem to add up to me. How about cutting out the pollution at just one of those sources with an EV?

    Yes, biodiesel may save us all. But where is it? Where can I fill up my 60mph diesel (which I can’t buy) with biodiesel produced from clean sources (which they don’t make in large volume) close to home or on the road (since people argue availability against EVs) and at a price competitive with gasoline?

    NO WHERE!

  • Deebirs

    Who has a 60mpg diesel? Do you? Does anyone in america have one (that they bought “off the shelf”). Can you buy them? NO.

    No one makes them for sale here. You have to alter your own, which MOST americans aren’t willing or capable of doing. Smart made a damned-efficient ForTwo, but they weren’t allowed to bring it to america. Mercedes makes a few “blue” engines, but they, too, are out of the reach of common americans.

    This blogger is consistently down on electric vehicles. He pulls up any bit of crap against them that he can, but provides no solutions (in article form). Not only is there pollution at the pipe of a diesel car (though not as much in modern diesels as some commenters would have you believe), but there is also pollution during production. That doesn’t seem to add up to me. How about cutting out the pollution at just one of those sources with an EV?

    Yes, biodiesel may save us all. But where is it? Where can I fill up my 60mph diesel (which I can’t buy) with biodiesel produced from clean sources (which they don’t make in large volume) close to home or on the road (since people argue availability against EVs) and at a price competitive with gasoline?

    NO WHERE!

  • Deebirs

    Let me amend my last comment: In addition to Mercedes and Smart, Volkswagen makes the TDI line of vehicles, too.

  • Deebirs

    Let me amend my last comment: In addition to Mercedes and Smart, Volkswagen makes the TDI line of vehicles, too.

  • Deebirs

    Let me amend my last comment: In addition to Mercedes and Smart, Volkswagen makes the TDI line of vehicles, too.

  • Robert Speirs

    What nonsense! Electric vehicles are fun. I know because I drive an electric scooter to work every day. All this “carbon footprint” nonsense is just that. The world could be much warmer without hurting anything and that would save many millions of people who perish from the cold and famine. But there is no real science to back up the carbon scam anyway. It’s all a con game. The Al Gores of the world are hucksters galore.

  • Robert Speirs

    What nonsense! Electric vehicles are fun. I know because I drive an electric scooter to work every day. All this “carbon footprint” nonsense is just that. The world could be much warmer without hurting anything and that would save many millions of people who perish from the cold and famine. But there is no real science to back up the carbon scam anyway. It’s all a con game. The Al Gores of the world are hucksters galore.

  • Robert Speirs

    What nonsense! Electric vehicles are fun. I know because I drive an electric scooter to work every day. All this “carbon footprint” nonsense is just that. The world could be much warmer without hurting anything and that would save many millions of people who perish from the cold and famine. But there is no real science to back up the carbon scam anyway. It’s all a con game. The Al Gores of the world are hucksters galore.

  • Bob

    Prius generally gets around 38 mpg on the highway. VW TDI generally gets a bit over 40 mpg with A/T. The BITW Technologies Vincitore gets over 60 mpg, without trying. Which means, according to this study, it’s also more Planet friendly. 700 miles per 10 gallon tank of renewable bio-diesel fuel, even if you must run the A/C or heater/defroster for the entire time. It’s the American Way to build your own if it isn’t being sold anywhere. Build one like it yourself. You can drive it til you drop. It has an industrial diesel engine built to run the entire 700 miles without stopping even with the A/C on full blast. It’s the most practical economy car I’ve seen yet, and it still has 4-doors and can hold 4 adults comfortably. Got a better car. Tell me about it…..

  • Bob

    Prius generally gets around 38 mpg on the highway. VW TDI generally gets a bit over 40 mpg with A/T. The BITW Technologies Vincitore gets over 60 mpg, without trying. Which means, according to this study, it’s also more Planet friendly. 700 miles per 10 gallon tank of renewable bio-diesel fuel, even if you must run the A/C or heater/defroster for the entire time. It’s the American Way to build your own if it isn’t being sold anywhere. Build one like it yourself. You can drive it til you drop. It has an industrial diesel engine built to run the entire 700 miles without stopping even with the A/C on full blast. It’s the most practical economy car I’ve seen yet, and it still has 4-doors and can hold 4 adults comfortably. Got a better car. Tell me about it…..

  • Bob

    Man, where do you live? On the Moon? I can get bio-diesel all across the Country. You can too. Punch it into Google and check it out. Search for “bio-diesel distributors”. I don’t mean to step on your toes if you’re in love with an EV. I just happen to know the new efficient diesels are the best thing going, especially if you have a source of bio-diesel and you should have. It’ll burn several other types of fuel too. No need to get stuck out in the boonies like you will in an EV.

  • Bob

    Man, where do you live? On the Moon? I can get bio-diesel all across the Country. You can too. Punch it into Google and check it out. Search for “bio-diesel distributors”. I don’t mean to step on your toes if you’re in love with an EV. I just happen to know the new efficient diesels are the best thing going, especially if you have a source of bio-diesel and you should have. It’ll burn several other types of fuel too. No need to get stuck out in the boonies like you will in an EV.

  • Bill

    Bob, you are so uneducated about EVs. If you’re going to spout FUD about them, at least do some homework instead of sounding like a clueless ranter. Here’s some info for your diesel tailpipe: Firstly, a LOT of us EV owners are charging our EVs with pvs (solar cells) off peak which means our meters run backward and the ‘fuel’ is FREE and TONS cleaner (ZERO emissions) than your yet-to-be sold diesel that gets 60mpg. And for people that don’t have their pvs yet, charging at night off peak is STILL over 60% cleaner than an ICE car, and will cost them LESS than $2/100mi. How much will it cost you to fill your tank Bob? How much more in maintenance will you have with your ICE car Bob? You should look up what percentage of coal plants are being used in CA to generate electricity. It’s very low. And in AZ, it is only 35% and dropping as I type. Your last FUD statement about being stranded, I had to laugh my butt off at your ignorance. Once again, you have NO idea about all the infrastructure (charging stations) that will be put in place BEFORE the LEAF is delivered in Dec. And that is mostly for convenience unless someone chooses to take a long trip. Most of the charging will be done at home and we’ll wave to ya as we drive silently by while you’re filling up at your biodiesel station and supporting BIG OIL and terrorists without a care for our precious Earth.

  • Bill

    Bob, you are so uneducated about EVs. If you’re going to spout FUD about them, at least do some homework instead of sounding like a clueless ranter. Here’s some info for your diesel tailpipe: Firstly, a LOT of us EV owners are charging our EVs with pvs (solar cells) off peak which means our meters run backward and the ‘fuel’ is FREE and TONS cleaner (ZERO emissions) than your yet-to-be sold diesel that gets 60mpg. And for people that don’t have their pvs yet, charging at night off peak is STILL over 60% cleaner than an ICE car, and will cost them LESS than $2/100mi. How much will it cost you to fill your tank Bob? How much more in maintenance will you have with your ICE car Bob? You should look up what percentage of coal plants are being used in CA to generate electricity. It’s very low. And in AZ, it is only 35% and dropping as I type. Your last FUD statement about being stranded, I had to laugh my butt off at your ignorance. Once again, you have NO idea about all the infrastructure (charging stations) that will be put in place BEFORE the LEAF is delivered in Dec. And that is mostly for convenience unless someone chooses to take a long trip. Most of the charging will be done at home and we’ll wave to ya as we drive silently by while you’re filling up at your biodiesel station and supporting BIG OIL and terrorists without a care for our precious Earth.

    • Is the electricity that you are talking about in California come from Nuclear power plants in Arizona? The Lithium that was mined in Bolivia, Argentina or Chile’ will be extracted from Mother earth and there is only a limited amount of it, then extraction might take place from sea water(the ocean),then what will happen to the ecosystem of the oceans. You should be asking yourself questions about the countries involved in the heart of your EV. Such as: What country is the battery manufactured, is the country politically stable, do the battery manufactures employ child labor, how many hours do these workers work per day???? These are just a few questions that everybody should ask before supporting EV battery manufacturers. I have asked these same questions and came to the conclusion that Bio-Diesel is for me. You can make your own decision on who or what you want to support, I don’t care as long as our beautiful country is not taken over by an unfriendly because of someones misguided ignorance.

    • I don’t envy the idea of trading one energy dependence for another ie. Having the mining rights and battery makers, for the EVs, being from another country namely China, Japan and Korea. This is why Bio-Diesel is important to our country and economy, it is domestically made and is renewable.

  • Jose

    Folks stop the hate. Diesel cars can run on Bio-diesel which is a renewable resource. There are even diesel hybrids. The new catalytic converters are very efficient at cleaning diesel exhaust too. Electric vehicles are great but the source of electricity is what we have to pay attention to. If the source of electricity is green then great. If you use a diesel, then make sure you use bio-diesel.

  • Jose

    Folks stop the hate. Diesel cars can run on Bio-diesel which is a renewable resource. There are even diesel hybrids. The new catalytic converters are very efficient at cleaning diesel exhaust too. Electric vehicles are great but the source of electricity is what we have to pay attention to. If the source of electricity is green then great. If you use a diesel, then make sure you use bio-diesel.

  • Moron

    Oh come on Bob, Do you really think that CO2 causes our planet’s death? Why the fk didn’t US join in with kyoto while being a huge “threat” to mankind itself. Cause the laws regarding CO2 BS just cause more and more poverty, more taxes, there has never been a worse nonsense that PAYS so much to the builders of this system. Now they are actually thinking of taxing bio-fuel – our only chance to help the planet. More and more scientist are approving the fact that in the last 10 years there has been no warming.

    Have you heard that there were electric cars in the early 90’s??? and yet we haven’t got a “battery good enough”… 20 years ago EV went for 100+ miles in a single load and look what BS us government gives the ppl.

    The fuel cell was ready, patent was given away and now i.e. Honda makes its FCR at a limited amount, you CAN’T BUY ONE, only lease, so if the decision comes, the contract is ended and the car is taken away… just like with the ones in the 90’s.

    You should really start growing GMO’s for your diesel… then you might learn what the idea is all about regarding GMO, thats forbidden in Mexico but in NAFTA they have to take GMO from US.

    GO NORTH-AMERICAN UNION – guess you haven’t heard about that one, CNN even showed a news, that it got a green light, although Bush signed it a long time ago…

  • Moron

    Oh come on Bob, Do you really think that CO2 causes our planet’s death? Why the fk didn’t US join in with kyoto while being a huge “threat” to mankind itself. Cause the laws regarding CO2 BS just cause more and more poverty, more taxes, there has never been a worse nonsense that PAYS so much to the builders of this system. Now they are actually thinking of taxing bio-fuel – our only chance to help the planet. More and more scientist are approving the fact that in the last 10 years there has been no warming.

    Have you heard that there were electric cars in the early 90’s??? and yet we haven’t got a “battery good enough”… 20 years ago EV went for 100+ miles in a single load and look what BS us government gives the ppl.

    The fuel cell was ready, patent was given away and now i.e. Honda makes its FCR at a limited amount, you CAN’T BUY ONE, only lease, so if the decision comes, the contract is ended and the car is taken away… just like with the ones in the 90’s.

    You should really start growing GMO’s for your diesel… then you might learn what the idea is all about regarding GMO, thats forbidden in Mexico but in NAFTA they have to take GMO from US.

    GO NORTH-AMERICAN UNION – guess you haven’t heard about that one, CNN even showed a news, that it got a green light, although Bush signed it a long time ago…

  • Don’t use biodiesel, whatever you do.

    Turbocharged, Diesel, Injected (TDI) engines in small to midsized cars get great gas mileage so they help reduce oil use.

    Biodiesel has more downsides than regular diesel:

    http://home.comcast.net/~russ676/biodiesel/index.html

  • Don’t use biodiesel, whatever you do.

    Turbocharged, Diesel, Injected (TDI) engines in small to midsized cars get great gas mileage so they help reduce oil use.

    Biodiesel has more downsides than regular diesel:

    http://home.comcast.net/~russ676/biodiesel/index.html

  • Bob

    Personally, I think Tyrone and Jose make the most sense so far. If I want a lesson in left-leaning politics I’ll read from Karl Marx or listen to NP. If I want to know more about clean diesels I’ll listen to people like Jose and Tyrone who know seem to know what they’re talking about. In their zeal to spread EV’s across the country EV enthusiasts have chosen to ignore the fuel that makes the electricity that charges their battery packs while at the same time ignoring resulting emissions released at the power plant.

  • Bob

    Personally, I think Tyrone and Jose make the most sense so far. If I want a lesson in left-leaning politics I’ll read from Karl Marx or listen to NP. If I want to know more about clean diesels I’ll listen to people like Jose and Tyrone who know seem to know what they’re talking about. In their zeal to spread EV’s across the country EV enthusiasts have chosen to ignore the fuel that makes the electricity that charges their battery packs while at the same time ignoring resulting emissions released at the power plant.

  • Bob

    Oops, I see Tyrone has disappeared. Someone can’t stand the simple truth, I suppose.

  • Bob

    Oops, I see Tyrone has disappeared. Someone can’t stand the simple truth, I suppose.

  • Bob

    We should be focusing more on improving the efficiency of our power plants and batteries if we want to use electric cars to satisfy more of our transportation needs. There are other considerations, of course. Many feel that to trade our dependence on foreign oil for a dependence on foreign rare Earth elements to produce batteries as well as depending on foreign batteries and more foreign would be a big mistake. One Chinese car company is ready to start the U.S. invasion with their electric cars and they appear to be backed by the current temporary administration as well as by China. Go figure. China’s lithium reserves are about 15 times what the U.S. holds. Likely, the cars as well as the lithium batteries they need will come from China and will not help the U.S. job situation, only make it worse. Just recall the study above. “Compared to diesel-powered cars that get over 60 mpg, electric vehicles may have a larger environmental impact… especially if the electricity comes from non-renewable sources.” Show me an EV or a PHEV and I’ll show you a diesel that can outlast it on the road, and outlast it by the tankful, and some of them can get more than 60 mpg. Our EV proponents seem to forget that the U.S. and the World is a lot bigger than California. Some things that are good for California are not necessarily good for the rest of the Country or The World.

  • Bob

    We should be focusing more on improving the efficiency of our power plants and batteries if we want to use electric cars to satisfy more of our transportation needs. There are other considerations, of course. Many feel that to trade our dependence on foreign oil for a dependence on foreign rare Earth elements to produce batteries as well as depending on foreign batteries and more foreign would be a big mistake. One Chinese car company is ready to start the U.S. invasion with their electric cars and they appear to be backed by the current temporary administration as well as by China. Go figure. China’s lithium reserves are about 15 times what the U.S. holds. Likely, the cars as well as the lithium batteries they need will come from China and will not help the U.S. job situation, only make it worse. Just recall the study above. “Compared to diesel-powered cars that get over 60 mpg, electric vehicles may have a larger environmental impact… especially if the electricity comes from non-renewable sources.” Show me an EV or a PHEV and I’ll show you a diesel that can outlast it on the road, and outlast it by the tankful, and some of them can get more than 60 mpg. Our EV proponents seem to forget that the U.S. and the World is a lot bigger than California. Some things that are good for California are not necessarily good for the rest of the Country or The World.

  • Bob

    Well Mr. Bill, it seems you haven’t done your homework about EV’s like you told the rest of us you did. Tsk, Tsk. 10 points off! And another 20 points off because of attitude. 🙂 Try telling someone living in NYC in Winter they can charge their EV with solar energy. That’s sort of like someone making their own bio-diesel in their back yard using waste vegetable oil. Not that it isn’t being done, it just isn’t the thing that most drivers want to be doing. At least the NYC home bio-diesel manufacturer could get his diesel car to move using WVO he just picked up from the local restaurants. And good on him that he’s trying to keep that stuff out of the local landfill. But I’m not so sure about the success of the NYC resident waiting for his EV to be charged by solar energy. This is just one example demonstrating that EV’s are not necessarily the answer outside some areas, like sunny California, and maybe not even then.

  • Bob

    Well Mr. Bill, it seems you haven’t done your homework about EV’s like you told the rest of us you did. Tsk, Tsk. 10 points off! And another 20 points off because of attitude. 🙂 Try telling someone living in NYC in Winter they can charge their EV with solar energy. That’s sort of like someone making their own bio-diesel in their back yard using waste vegetable oil. Not that it isn’t being done, it just isn’t the thing that most drivers want to be doing. At least the NYC home bio-diesel manufacturer could get his diesel car to move using WVO he just picked up from the local restaurants. And good on him that he’s trying to keep that stuff out of the local landfill. But I’m not so sure about the success of the NYC resident waiting for his EV to be charged by solar energy. This is just one example demonstrating that EV’s are not necessarily the answer outside some areas, like sunny California, and maybe not even then.

  • Bob

    Buffy and Jodie. L.A. Residents, just bought a new EV. They really love it and try to charge it’s battery pack on clean solar energy whenever they get a chance. Buffy really likes the drive to work now since he’s making the Planet a whole lot greener. Before departing for the day he carefully plans his route for maximum efficiency, first dropping off little Johnny at school and then taking Jodie to work at the Firm before finally arriving at his job at the bank. “It’s such a GREAT FEELING being green. Oh, I hate those diesels! They should be banned from the whole Country. I need to remind my congress woman about how I feel. The diesels are absolutely ruining this GREAT COUNTRY!” Buffy is a real hero at home these days. The whole family really likes their quiet smooth riding new EV. They can talk about the latest in politics and listen to Nancy and Harry while on their way to and from work and not have to worry about any dirty exhaust fumes, except from those other cars. “What a great life it could be if only we could spread the word about how clean and quiet our EV is!” One day Buffy decides to impress the family by taking his brand new EV out of the L.A. Area to go visit their cousins in Arizona. Buffy plans ahead for the trip by taking a taxi to work so the new EV can be fully charged by evening when they will leave on their trip. “Oh, I’m so excited. Our Arizona cousins will be sooo impressed with our new EV.”, says Buffy. I’ll call a taxi for Jodie and she can take little Johnny to school today, then pick him up too. And I’ll take a taxi straight home after work. Finally, Friday evening 6:30 p.m. “Hmmm, Jodie isn’t home yet. She knows how important this trip is to me. Where could she be?” Jodie had a rough day today so she didn’t get home til after 7 P.M. Buffy had to take a detour from work and pick Johnny up but they’re finally all home together. “Families have to plan for these little setbacks. Nothing ever goes off perfectly, does it? Good thing we packed the car last night. It’s all charged up so let’s get on the road.” Finally heading West on I-10 the family hopes to reach San Bernardino in a couple of hours. Its just 90 miles to the motel. “You did get the reservations, didn’t you? Good, I don’t think we can make it until after 9:30 P.M. You do realize that because you arrived home late we didn’t leave home until 7:30 p.m., an hour late. Johnny is hungry and so am I. We should stop someplace and grab some quiche or maybe a vegan sandwich. Wow, I didn’t plan on this slow traffic. What’s the problem, an accident? It sure is hot out here this evening, still way up in the 90’s. Well, we have A/C on our brand new EV. Let’s just turn it up a bit. Ahh, that’s much better. Honey you catch some sleep while I do the driving. You’ll feel better. I’ll wake you when we get near Pomona and we’ll get a bite to eat.”……..”Wow, I can even hear Jodie snoring. This new EV is so quiet. I love it! Will this traffic ever let up?…….Well, finally moving again. Now we’ll make up some time. I think I’ll push it up a bit and we’ll all feel refreshed after we get some food.”………………….”Daddy, I have to go to the bathroom.” “Ok son, we’ll stop just as soon as we can. Just hold on and look at the scenery. We’ll be there in no time.” But daddy, I have to go right NOW! We had frijoles for lunch today and I need to go NOW!” “Ok son, just take it easy. I’m trying to find a place now.” Boy, that accident back there really cost us some time. Why didn’t he go before we left home? Oh well. We can’t plan for everything. “We’re almost there son. There’s a McDonald’s just ahead at Grand Avenue exit. Just hold on!…………Ok, we’re here. I’ll go in with you and we’ll let mommy sleep.”……….”Daddy, I’m really hungry.” “Ok son, while we’re here we may as well get something to eat too. Honey? Honey, are you awake?” “Yes, I’m awake now. What is it? Are we at Pomona already? Such a fast trip. This car is great!” “Uh, no sweetie pie. We’ve just made it to Grand Avenue” “WHAT?” “Well, there was an accident and then Johnny had to go, NOW. While we’re here I thought we would get something to eat and Johnny is really hungry. So am I.” “Where are we? McDonald’s! You know I’m trying to stay away from greasy food! Do they have any hummus?” “I’m sorry munchkin, they’re all out of hummus and we’ve been warned about lettuce out of Mexico that is causing those intestinal problems so we should stay away from that. Nix on the frijoles too. We don’t want any more problems from that today. All they have are some hamburgers, french fries, and chicken. Which do you want? It’s getting late and we need to get back on the road soon.” “OK, I guess I’ll have the chicken sandwich with a bit of organic bleu cheese dressing, one slice of tomato, nothing else. Oh yes, get me a diet Coke. I have to watch my weight. You should have packed something for us since I was running late and you were already home.” “Yes dear, don’t we all……” “What did you say?” “Nothing dear. I’ll be right back with your chicken sandwich.” Jeech, she sure gets upset easily these days. Oh, now I remember. No wonder she’s been so cranky…………. “Here’s your chicken sandwich sweet thing. They didn’t have any organic bleu cheese dressing so I told them to just put some mayonnaise on it. I’m sorry they were out of diet so I got you a regular coke. We really must get on the road.” “Man, I didn’t realize I was that hungry. This big coffee will keep me awake. It’s been a real long day. Oh well, we’re finally back on the road again. GOSH! It’s already after 9 p.m. We’ll never make it to San Bernardino this evening. “Can you call the motel and cancel our reservations. Oh, wait. They said we still have to pay after 9 p.m. I have to turn the A/C off now so we can turn our headlights on. Wow, it looks like our battery is getting low. That salesman said we could go 150 miles on one charge! What’s with that? Oh man………..”…………….”Why are we stopping?” “Well, uh, Honey……our battery is just about dead, and……” “WHAT? WHAT’S THE MATTER WITH OUR CAR? THIS PIECE OF CRAP COST US ALMOST $50,000 DOLLARS! AND WE CAN’T EVEN DRIVE IT TO SAN BERNARDINO, MUCH LESS TO PHOENIX?” “Well sweet thing. Look on the bright side. By the time the tow truck drops us off at home most of the neighbors will already be asleep.” “OH SHUT UP!!” “Daddy, I don’t feel so good.” We leave Buffy, Jodie, and little Johnny stopped on I-10 Friday evening, just on the outskirts of L.A. Fortunately a call summoned a diesel powered tow truck to take the family safely back home. Maybe now Buffy will finally realize the value of a good running efficient diesel ICEV when you really need it. But will he admit this to his friends? Probably not. DIESEL, DON’T LEAVE HOME WITHOUT ONE!

  • Bob

    Buffy and Jodie. L.A. Residents, just bought a new EV. They really love it and try to charge it’s battery pack on clean solar energy whenever they get a chance. Buffy really likes the drive to work now since he’s making the Planet a whole lot greener. Before departing for the day he carefully plans his route for maximum efficiency, first dropping off little Johnny at school and then taking Jodie to work at the Firm before finally arriving at his job at the bank. “It’s such a GREAT FEELING being green. Oh, I hate those diesels! They should be banned from the whole Country. I need to remind my congress woman about how I feel. The diesels are absolutely ruining this GREAT COUNTRY!” Buffy is a real hero at home these days. The whole family really likes their quiet smooth riding new EV. They can talk about the latest in politics and listen to Nancy and Harry while on their way to and from work and not have to worry about any dirty exhaust fumes, except from those other cars. “What a great life it could be if only we could spread the word about how clean and quiet our EV is!” One day Buffy decides to impress the family by taking his brand new EV out of the L.A. Area to go visit their cousins in Arizona. Buffy plans ahead for the trip by taking a taxi to work so the new EV can be fully charged by evening when they will leave on their trip. “Oh, I’m so excited. Our Arizona cousins will be sooo impressed with our new EV.”, says Buffy. I’ll call a taxi for Jodie and she can take little Johnny to school today, then pick him up too. And I’ll take a taxi straight home after work. Finally, Friday evening 6:30 p.m. “Hmmm, Jodie isn’t home yet. She knows how important this trip is to me. Where could she be?” Jodie had a rough day today so she didn’t get home til after 7 P.M. Buffy had to take a detour from work and pick Johnny up but they’re finally all home together. “Families have to plan for these little setbacks. Nothing ever goes off perfectly, does it? Good thing we packed the car last night. It’s all charged up so let’s get on the road.” Finally heading West on I-10 the family hopes to reach San Bernardino in a couple of hours. Its just 90 miles to the motel. “You did get the reservations, didn’t you? Good, I don’t think we can make it until after 9:30 P.M. You do realize that because you arrived home late we didn’t leave home until 7:30 p.m., an hour late. Johnny is hungry and so am I. We should stop someplace and grab some quiche or maybe a vegan sandwich. Wow, I didn’t plan on this slow traffic. What’s the problem, an accident? It sure is hot out here this evening, still way up in the 90’s. Well, we have A/C on our brand new EV. Let’s just turn it up a bit. Ahh, that’s much better. Honey you catch some sleep while I do the driving. You’ll feel better. I’ll wake you when we get near Pomona and we’ll get a bite to eat.”……..”Wow, I can even hear Jodie snoring. This new EV is so quiet. I love it! Will this traffic ever let up?…….Well, finally moving again. Now we’ll make up some time. I think I’ll push it up a bit and we’ll all feel refreshed after we get some food.”………………….”Daddy, I have to go to the bathroom.” “Ok son, we’ll stop just as soon as we can. Just hold on and look at the scenery. We’ll be there in no time.” But daddy, I have to go right NOW! We had frijoles for lunch today and I need to go NOW!” “Ok son, just take it easy. I’m trying to find a place now.” Boy, that accident back there really cost us some time. Why didn’t he go before we left home? Oh well. We can’t plan for everything. “We’re almost there son. There’s a McDonald’s just ahead at Grand Avenue exit. Just hold on!…………Ok, we’re here. I’ll go in with you and we’ll let mommy sleep.”……….”Daddy, I’m really hungry.” “Ok son, while we’re here we may as well get something to eat too. Honey? Honey, are you awake?” “Yes, I’m awake now. What is it? Are we at Pomona already? Such a fast trip. This car is great!” “Uh, no sweetie pie. We’ve just made it to Grand Avenue” “WHAT?” “Well, there was an accident and then Johnny had to go, NOW. While we’re here I thought we would get something to eat and Johnny is really hungry. So am I.” “Where are we? McDonald’s! You know I’m trying to stay away from greasy food! Do they have any hummus?” “I’m sorry munchkin, they’re all out of hummus and we’ve been warned about lettuce out of Mexico that is causing those intestinal problems so we should stay away from that. Nix on the frijoles too. We don’t want any more problems from that today. All they have are some hamburgers, french fries, and chicken. Which do you want? It’s getting late and we need to get back on the road soon.” “OK, I guess I’ll have the chicken sandwich with a bit of organic bleu cheese dressing, one slice of tomato, nothing else. Oh yes, get me a diet Coke. I have to watch my weight. You should have packed something for us since I was running late and you were already home.” “Yes dear, don’t we all……” “What did you say?” “Nothing dear. I’ll be right back with your chicken sandwich.” Jeech, she sure gets upset easily these days. Oh, now I remember. No wonder she’s been so cranky…………. “Here’s your chicken sandwich sweet thing. They didn’t have any organic bleu cheese dressing so I told them to just put some mayonnaise on it. I’m sorry they were out of diet so I got you a regular coke. We really must get on the road.” “Man, I didn’t realize I was that hungry. This big coffee will keep me awake. It’s been a real long day. Oh well, we’re finally back on the road again. GOSH! It’s already after 9 p.m. We’ll never make it to San Bernardino this evening. “Can you call the motel and cancel our reservations. Oh, wait. They said we still have to pay after 9 p.m. I have to turn the A/C off now so we can turn our headlights on. Wow, it looks like our battery is getting low. That salesman said we could go 150 miles on one charge! What’s with that? Oh man………..”…………….”Why are we stopping?” “Well, uh, Honey……our battery is just about dead, and……” “WHAT? WHAT’S THE MATTER WITH OUR CAR? THIS PIECE OF CRAP COST US ALMOST $50,000 DOLLARS! AND WE CAN’T EVEN DRIVE IT TO SAN BERNARDINO, MUCH LESS TO PHOENIX?” “Well sweet thing. Look on the bright side. By the time the tow truck drops us off at home most of the neighbors will already be asleep.” “OH SHUT UP!!” “Daddy, I don’t feel so good.” We leave Buffy, Jodie, and little Johnny stopped on I-10 Friday evening, just on the outskirts of L.A. Fortunately a call summoned a diesel powered tow truck to take the family safely back home. Maybe now Buffy will finally realize the value of a good running efficient diesel ICEV when you really need it. But will he admit this to his friends? Probably not. DIESEL, DON’T LEAVE HOME WITHOUT ONE!

  • Joseph

    I don’t the idea of trading one energy dependence for another ie. Having the mining rights and battery makers, for the EVs, being from another country namely China, Japan and Korea. This is why Bio-Diesel is important to our country, it is domestically made and is renewable.

  • Joseph

    I don’t the idea of trading one energy dependence for another ie. Having the mining rights and battery makers, for the EVs, being from another country namely China, Japan and Korea. This is why Bio-Diesel is important to our country, it is domestically made and is renewable.

  • Joseph

    @Bill,

    Is the electricity that you are talking about in California come from Nuclear power plants in Arizona? The Lithium that was mined in Bolivia, Argentina or Chile’ will be extracted from Mother earth and there is only a limited amount of it, then extraction might take place from sea water(the ocean),then what will happen to the ecosystem of the oceans. You should be asking yourself questions about the countries involved in the heart of your EV. Such as: What country is the battery manufactured, is the country politically stable, do the battery manufactures employ child labor, how many hours do these workers work per day???? These are just a few questions that everybody should ask before supporting EV battery manufacturers. I have asked these same questions and came to the conclusion that Bio-Diesel is for me. You can make your own decision on who or what you want to support, I don’t care as long as our beautiful country is not taken over by an unfriendly because of someones misguided ignorance.

  • Joseph

    @Bill,

    Is the electricity that you are talking about in California come from Nuclear power plants in Arizona? The Lithium that was mined in Bolivia, Argentina or Chile’ will be extracted from Mother earth and there is only a limited amount of it, then extraction might take place from sea water(the ocean),then what will happen to the ecosystem of the oceans. You should be asking yourself questions about the countries involved in the heart of your EV. Such as: What country is the battery manufactured, is the country politically stable, do the battery manufactures employ child labor, how many hours do these workers work per day???? These are just a few questions that everybody should ask before supporting EV battery manufacturers. I have asked these same questions and came to the conclusion that Bio-Diesel is for me. You can make your own decision on who or what you want to support, I don’t care as long as our beautiful country is not taken over by an unfriendly because of someones misguided ignorance.