Nissan Plans on Selling an Inexpensive, Under 30-Minute Fast Charging Station in the U.S.

Mark Perry (left) next to the Nissan LEAF battery mock up

Nissan shocked everybody a bit earlier this week when they announced they had developed a DC fast charging station that had the capability of getting a Nissan LEAF’s 24 kWh battery pack from zero to 80% full in under a half hour. It wasn’t so much the fast charging capability — also known as Level 3 charging — that shocked. We’ve all known Level 3 charging was coming. No, it was the price of their charging station.

At about $17,000, it represented an astounding departure from the $60,000 to $150,000 prices that have been quoted for the better part of a year and a half for a fast charging station. I had a chance to ask Mark Perry, Nissan’s director of product planning and strategy for North America, about just how Nissan had pulled it off and what kinds of plans Nissan has for bringing their Level 3 charging station to the U.S.

Nick Chambers: There’s a press release that came across recently that you guys have developed your own DC fast charger in house and you’re installing it in 200 dealerships in Japan. Do you have plans to put that in the US?

Mark Perry: We’re looking at even additional cost reduction below the $17,000 price per charge station we’ve come up with in Japan. Our question right now is that it meets the equivalent of UL listing in Japan right now, so for us to develop it for application here in the United States we’d have to do a little bit more development, get it through UL certification and then deploy it.

NC: But are you going to use the CHAdeMO standard that has been developed in Japan in the US? I mean, you guys are kind of up against the SAE because they’re dragging their heels on the level 3 standard.

MP: Again, the DOE project is going to deploy 250-plus of these DC fast chargers, so they’re going to be out there. So the manufacturers are lining up behind that standard and those stations that are being deployed will be UL certified so they’re safe. We hope the SAE moves along towards that kind of standard. It’s just a process that needs to be gone through.

NC: Right, it almost seems the decision is kind for going to be made for them by the time they actually get there. If you’ve got several hundred of these charging stations — or even a thousand of them by the time the make up their mind — then, you know, there’s not much they can do.

MP: Maybe so, but we want everybody involved in the process to be comfortable.

NC: The other question I had is, if you went back a year and did an internet search on articles that came up a year ago, everybody would say these DC fast chargers are going to be 60-100,000 bucks. And now you guys come out with this one that — in Japan — is selling for $17,000, which is cheaper than even some of the level 2 chargers. I’m just wondering, you know, how? How does that happen? I don’t understand, you guys have this incredibly cheap battery pack and you have this incredibly cheap fast charger. And I’m just wondering, “What is going on over at Nissan”? You’re beating all these predictions by miles.

MP: We have a very strong team of cost engineers who went back and basically took apart the DC fast charger and asked “How can we find ways to do this less expensively and faster?” And before, the market was for almost hand built charging stations. You know, it’s like a custom built car; it costs a lot of money. All of a sudden you start talking about scale, you start talking about manufacturing efficiencies, and you go through, from a cost engineering standpoint and say “Okay, why are you doing it this way if you can do it that way?” and just work it through and you come up with the cost reduction that we have. And we’re not done.

NC: If you were a municipality now, and you’re thinking about investing to install these chargers, and now you see that Nissan has a $17,000 one, you are then going to be selling that — I mean you make that and sell it to any willing bidder?

MP: Once we have it UL certified, yeah that’s our intention. From a strategic standpoint, we want to help that market develop also, and in the long term, we hope that our charger brings competition, brings scale, and drives costs low so we can see large deployment. Again, DC fast charging we think is a really good way for electric vehicles to work. Especially, we always get the “well what about the garage orphans?” question — AKA apartment dwellers, condo guys — well what about those guys? A DC fast charge system allows them to join in. For instance, in Seattle — belltown — it’s like condo city, so you don’t need every building, just have a centralized location.

At this point, Brad Berman of HybridCars.com joined conversation and asked: You’re not concerned about battery degradation with fast charging?

MP: There is a difference, the gradual capacity loss is about 10% more. So remember I said after 10 years we’d be 70-80%. If you do a lot of DC fast charging you’re down at the 70% range. Again, our simulations are fast charging 2 or 3 times a day, I mean we’re really pushing it to see what happens, and we’re getting that kind of difference.

Disclaimer: The author’s travel and lodging expenses were paid for by Nissan.

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Tags: battery, fast charge, LEAF, Level 3, Nissan, Nissan LEAF

About the Author

Nick Chambers Not your traditional car guy.

Alex

“Disclaimer: The author’s travel and lodging expenses were paid for by Nissan.”

Biased??
- Nick Chambers
  
  Alex,
  
  You read the whole article and that’s the only question you have? Really? Let me ask you this, would you have preferred I didn’t put the disclaimer in there? That’s the whole point of a disclaimer so that the reader can be fully informed and judge for themselves the amount of bias. If you need to ask the crowd if I’m biased, then I guess I don’t understand the point of the question. Is it simply to try and get a dig in and start and argument? Or are you really concerned I’m biased and aren’t able to form your own opinion based on what I’ve written? Am I not providing valuable information you can’t find anywhere else? Does it come off as incredibly biased?
  
  If you’ve read even a fraction of the 400+ posts I’ve written for this site, you may then be able to judge for yourself the level of bias I have. I take pride in that fact that I never try and hide any funding sources and I put the disclaimers out there so that it never comes back to bite me in the butt. Most bloggers won’t even tell you when they get their trips paid for for fear of being labeled as biased. I can assure you Nissan isn’t the only organization that has treated me to the occasional junket and I always make that clear in a post that is the result of that junket. You may think I actually make a decent wage, but as a blogger I make very little money and can’t fund these trips myself, so they are of unquestionable value to me. Certainly as a blogger it’s my job to write one part facts and one part opinion. In that sense, all bloggers are biased; it’s what we’re called on to do and what people expect. That’s why certain people gravitate to certain blogs and not to others. I think from my incredible backlog of posts you’d find that I am an unabashed supporter of EVs and, because the LEAF is the first really mass-market and affordable EV on the planet, I fully support it. I try and remain critical in the ways that I feel criticism is needed, however.
  
  If you don’t like what I write, or don’t trust me, you can either choose to not read it, or leave criticism of what you think is biased. But if you don’t have any reason to think what I’ve written is biased, I just don’t see the point of trying to make an issue out of it.
Alex

“Disclaimer: The author’s travel and lodging expenses were paid for by Nissan.”

Biased??
- Nick Chambers
  
  Alex,
  
  You read the whole article and that’s the only question you have? Really? Let me ask you this, would you have preferred I didn’t put the disclaimer in there? That’s the whole point of a disclaimer so that the reader can be fully informed and judge for themselves the amount of bias. If you need to ask the crowd if I’m biased, then I guess I don’t understand the point of the question. Is it simply to try and get a dig in and start and argument? Or are you really concerned I’m biased and aren’t able to form your own opinion based on what I’ve written? Am I not providing valuable information you can’t find anywhere else? Does it come off as incredibly biased?
  
  If you’ve read even a fraction of the 400+ posts I’ve written for this site, you may then be able to judge for yourself the level of bias I have. I take pride in that fact that I never try and hide any funding sources and I put the disclaimers out there so that it never comes back to bite me in the butt. Most bloggers won’t even tell you when they get their trips paid for for fear of being labeled as biased. I can assure you Nissan isn’t the only organization that has treated me to the occasional junket and I always make that clear in a post that is the result of that junket. You may think I actually make a decent wage, but as a blogger I make very little money and can’t fund these trips myself, so they are of unquestionable value to me. Certainly as a blogger it’s my job to write one part facts and one part opinion. In that sense, all bloggers are biased; it’s what we’re called on to do and what people expect. That’s why certain people gravitate to certain blogs and not to others. I think from my incredible backlog of posts you’d find that I am an unabashed supporter of EVs and, because the LEAF is the first really mass-market and affordable EV on the planet, I fully support it. I try and remain critical in the ways that I feel criticism is needed, however.
  
  If you don’t like what I write, or don’t trust me, you can either choose to not read it, or leave criticism of what you think is biased. But if you don’t have any reason to think what I’ve written is biased, I just don’t see the point of trying to make an issue out of it.
Constantin

Well done Nissan and with better and better battery packs the 100% EV is FINALY HERE !!!
Constantin

Well done Nissan and with better and better battery packs the 100% EV is FINALY HERE !!!
http://hopetoprosper.com Bret

Nick, keep up the good work.

I enjoy reading your blog and I know exactly how much work it is to put out these articles. It’s a lot easier to criticize someone else than it is to actually produce something of value yourself.
http://hopetoprosper.com Bret

Nick, keep up the good work.

I enjoy reading your blog and I know exactly how much work it is to put out these articles. It’s a lot easier to criticize someone else than it is to actually produce something of value yourself.
http://rowlandwilliams.com rwilliams1961

First, Toyota arrives with the Prius. Now Nissan and the Leaf. And yet GM is still behind the curve with the Volt and completely uncertain if it’s a one-off model or will spawn siblings.

Thank God the rest of the world is paying attention and guiding us/Americans toward a better future.
http://rowlandwilliams.com rwilliams1961

First, Toyota arrives with the Prius. Now Nissan and the Leaf. And yet GM is still behind the curve with the Volt and completely uncertain if it’s a one-off model or will spawn siblings.

Thank God the rest of the world is paying attention and guiding us/Americans toward a better future.
Johny_balls

Keep up the good work Nick.
- Nick Chambers
  
  Thanks Johny and Bret, appreciate it. Sometimes I wake up in the morning to check comments, and then I wish I hadn’t done it so early
Johny_balls

Keep up the good work Nick.
- Nick Chambers
  
  Thanks Johny and Bret, appreciate it. Sometimes I wake up in the morning to check comments, and then I wish I hadn’t done it so early
douglas prince

Good job, Nick, excellent piece. I’d be interested in a follow up, say, 6 months from now, to see where Nissan is at with their cost analysis on both the charger and the new battery pack.
douglas prince

Good job, Nick, excellent piece. I’d be interested in a follow up, say, 6 months from now, to see where Nissan is at with their cost analysis on both the charger and the new battery pack.
cmd12

I’m not sure I’m following this. You have to pay $17,000 dollars to charge the Leaf in under a half hour? That doesn’t seem worth it! I could drive to and from work on it’s range and just let it charge normal all night and be ready to go the next day….
- Nick Chambers
  
  cmd12,
  
  The fast chargers aren’t for home installations, they’re for installations on the road (think fast food joints, rest areas, etc). The business or municipality would pay the 17k to get the station installed, and then they’d make money off of every transaction, just like at a gas station. The fast charging stations are critical for a charging infrastructure where you can take your car on trips longer than 100 miles.
cmd12

I’m not sure I’m following this. You have to pay $17,000 dollars to charge the Leaf in under a half hour? That doesn’t seem worth it! I could drive to and from work on it’s range and just let it charge normal all night and be ready to go the next day….
- Nick Chambers
  
  cmd12,
  
  The fast chargers aren’t for home installations, they’re for installations on the road (think fast food joints, rest areas, etc). The business or municipality would pay the 17k to get the station installed, and then they’d make money off of every transaction, just like at a gas station. The fast charging stations are critical for a charging infrastructure where you can take your car on trips longer than 100 miles.
cmd12

Ha, I thought about that after I made my comment. Did they say what a full charge would run the customer?
- Nick Chambers
  
  cmd,
  
  You’re getting ahead of the process here. The charging stations don’t even exist in the US yet. I’m sure pricing will be up to whoever has installed and/or is operating the station. I’d imagine that it will be based on whatever price per kWh the local utility sells electricity at, plus some set fee per connect or percentage of total sale. I’d also imagine that it will depend on the operator of the charging station; for example, if it’s a governmental entity of some sort it will likely be a smaller mark-up than if it is a private business or utility.
cmd12

Ha, I thought about that after I made my comment. Did they say what a full charge would run the customer?
- Nick Chambers
  
  cmd,
  
  You’re getting ahead of the process here. The charging stations don’t even exist in the US yet. I’m sure pricing will be up to whoever has installed and/or is operating the station. I’d imagine that it will be based on whatever price per kWh the local utility sells electricity at, plus some set fee per connect or percentage of total sale. I’d also imagine that it will depend on the operator of the charging station; for example, if it’s a governmental entity of some sort it will likely be a smaller mark-up than if it is a private business or utility.
andy

Great article..good to know your getting this info and spreading the word
andy

Great article..good to know your getting this info and spreading the word
http://greenoptions.com/author/susan Susan Kraemer

Excellent reporting, and a good investment of Nick’s time, on their dime, to get him out there where he can talk directly to people and get the real story.

It is fair for them to pay to get Nick out there; why should he have to walk cross country to get a front row seat at where it’s happening?

This is good info.Ever more crucial now that we really see what the fossil addiction costs us: the entire Gulf!
http://greenoptions.com/author/susan Susan Kraemer

Excellent reporting, and a good investment of Nick’s time, on their dime, to get him out there where he can talk directly to people and get the real story.

It is fair for them to pay to get Nick out there; why should he have to walk cross country to get a front row seat at where it’s happening?

This is good info.Ever more crucial now that we really see what the fossil addiction costs us: the entire Gulf!
Mark

Nick:

Been lurking out here reading your stories for a long time now…and this is a great site and you do a great job. I agree disclosure is the way to go.

One thing i wonder about with fast charging EV’s is the tradeoff between consumer acceptance and the fact that all the EV projects about utility impac t are based on off peak charging…so the more fast chargers the more likely there willbe a shift in the charging behavior. Has Nissan or So Cal Edison or others addressed this?

mark
Mark

Nick:

Been lurking out here reading your stories for a long time now…and this is a great site and you do a great job. I agree disclosure is the way to go.

One thing i wonder about with fast charging EV’s is the tradeoff between consumer acceptance and the fact that all the EV projects about utility impac t are based on off peak charging…so the more fast chargers the more likely there willbe a shift in the charging behavior. Has Nissan or So Cal Edison or others addressed this?

mark