Comments on: Public Electric Car Charging Stations May Go Largely Unused http://gas2.org/2010/03/08/public-electric-car-charging-stations-may-go-largely-unused/ What is the future of fuel? What's new? What's next? Since 2007, Gas 2 has covered a rapidly changing world coming to terms with its oil addiction. Sat, 26 May 2012 14:59:56 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Nick Chambers http://gas2.org/2010/03/08/public-electric-car-charging-stations-may-go-largely-unused/#comment-14101 Nick Chambers Wed, 10 Mar 2010 02:28:32 +0000 http://gas2.org/?p=5743#comment-14101 Mac M, It's not whether or not "range anxiety" is real per se, so much as a question of whether or not it will actually affect car sales or the use of charge stations. There is a world of difference between an electric scooter with a 20 mile (?) range and an electric car with a 80-100 mile range in terms of whether or not it meets daily driving needs. The issue isn't whether or not to worry about running out of juice, but if people will even have the opportunity to worry about that on a daily basis because they drive far less than 100 miles in a given day. Mac M,

It’s not whether or not “range anxiety” is real per se, so much as a question of whether or not it will actually affect car sales or the use of charge stations. There is a world of difference between an electric scooter with a 20 mile (?) range and an electric car with a 80-100 mile range in terms of whether or not it meets daily driving needs. The issue isn’t whether or not to worry about running out of juice, but if people will even have the opportunity to worry about that on a daily basis because they drive far less than 100 miles in a given day.

]]> By: Nick Chambers http://gas2.org/2010/03/08/public-electric-car-charging-stations-may-go-largely-unused/#comment-37873 Nick Chambers Wed, 10 Mar 2010 02:28:00 +0000 http://gas2.org/?p=5743#comment-37873 Mac M, It's not whether or not "range anxiety" is real per se, so much as a question of whether or not it will actually affect car sales or the use of charge stations. There is a world of difference between an electric scooter with a 20 mile (?) range and an electric car with a 80-100 mile range in terms of whether or not it meets daily driving needs. The issue isn't whether or not to worry about running out of juice, but if people will even have the opportunity to worry about that on a daily basis because they drive far less than 100 miles in a given day. Mac M,

It’s not whether or not “range anxiety” is real per se, so much as a question of whether or not it will actually affect car sales or the use of charge stations. There is a world of difference between an electric scooter with a 20 mile (?) range and an electric car with a 80-100 mile range in terms of whether or not it meets daily driving needs. The issue isn’t whether or not to worry about running out of juice, but if people will even have the opportunity to worry about that on a daily basis because they drive far less than 100 miles in a given day.

]]> By: Mac McDougal http://gas2.org/2010/03/08/public-electric-car-charging-stations-may-go-largely-unused/#comment-14100 Mac McDougal Wed, 10 Mar 2010 00:48:41 +0000 http://gas2.org/?p=5743#comment-14100 "Range Anxiety" is not a made-up concept, amigo. How far will this sucker go? is THE FIRST QUESTION any rational person has about any kind of electric vehicle. I ran out of juice once 500 meters from home at the bottom of a hill with a 20 degree slope. My electric scooter weighs ~350 lbs. I could no more walk it up that hill than I could put it on my back and dance the Marengo. Nobody I know owns a tow truck. My only option was to ask an acquaintance if I could "borrow" some electrons, find 200 feet of extension cords, and charge the thing in situ. “Range Anxiety” is not a made-up concept, amigo. How far will this sucker go? is THE FIRST QUESTION any rational person has about any kind of electric vehicle. I ran out of juice once 500 meters from home at the bottom of a hill with a 20 degree slope. My electric scooter weighs ~350 lbs. I could no more walk it up that hill than I could put it on my back and dance the Marengo. Nobody I know owns a tow truck. My only option was to ask an acquaintance if I could “borrow” some electrons, find 200 feet of extension cords, and charge the thing in situ.

]]> By: Mac McDougal http://gas2.org/2010/03/08/public-electric-car-charging-stations-may-go-largely-unused/#comment-37872 Mac McDougal Wed, 10 Mar 2010 00:48:00 +0000 http://gas2.org/?p=5743#comment-37872 "Range Anxiety" is not a made-up concept, amigo. How far will this sucker go? is THE FIRST QUESTION any rational person has about any kind of electric vehicle. I ran out of juice once 500 meters from home at the bottom of a hill with a 20 degree slope. My electric scooter weighs ~350 lbs. I could no more walk it up that hill than I could put it on my back and dance the Marengo. Nobody I know owns a tow truck. My only option was to ask an acquaintance if I could "borrow" some electrons, find 200 feet of extension cords, and charge the thing in situ. “Range Anxiety” is not a made-up concept, amigo. How far will this sucker go? is THE FIRST QUESTION any rational person has about any kind of electric vehicle. I ran out of juice once 500 meters from home at the bottom of a hill with a 20 degree slope. My electric scooter weighs ~350 lbs. I could no more walk it up that hill than I could put it on my back and dance the Marengo. Nobody I know owns a tow truck. My only option was to ask an acquaintance if I could “borrow” some electrons, find 200 feet of extension cords, and charge the thing in situ.

]]> By: aja http://gas2.org/2010/03/08/public-electric-car-charging-stations-may-go-largely-unused/#comment-14099 aja Tue, 09 Mar 2010 21:12:58 +0000 http://gas2.org/?p=5743#comment-14099 Joe Pah, Your experience would be much like someone buying a ICE vehicle from a no-name automaker - same result, different cars. Less complexity = less maintenance. You will eat your words. Once EVs have the engineering resources invested in them that ICE vehicles enjoy, it will be no contest. EVs will outlast ICE vehicles - and that's bad news for autocompanies used to selling you a new ICE car every few years. Joe Pah,

Your experience would be much like someone buying a ICE vehicle from a no-name automaker – same result, different cars.

Less complexity = less maintenance.

You will eat your words. Once EVs have the engineering resources invested in them that ICE vehicles enjoy, it will be no contest. EVs will outlast ICE vehicles – and that’s bad news for autocompanies used to selling you a new ICE car every few years.

]]> By: aja http://gas2.org/2010/03/08/public-electric-car-charging-stations-may-go-largely-unused/#comment-37871 aja Tue, 09 Mar 2010 21:12:00 +0000 http://gas2.org/?p=5743#comment-37871 Joe Pah, Your experience would be much like someone buying a ICE vehicle from a no-name automaker - same result, different cars. Less complexity = less maintenance. You will eat your words. Once EVs have the engineering resources invested in them that ICE vehicles enjoy, it will be no contest. EVs will outlast ICE vehicles - and that's bad news for autocompanies used to selling you a new ICE car every few years. Joe Pah,

Your experience would be much like someone buying a ICE vehicle from a no-name automaker – same result, different cars.

Less complexity = less maintenance.

You will eat your words. Once EVs have the engineering resources invested in them that ICE vehicles enjoy, it will be no contest. EVs will outlast ICE vehicles – and that’s bad news for autocompanies used to selling you a new ICE car every few years.

]]> By: William G Brand http://gas2.org/2010/03/08/public-electric-car-charging-stations-may-go-largely-unused/#comment-14098 William G Brand Tue, 09 Mar 2010 19:59:30 +0000 http://gas2.org/?p=5743#comment-14098 A pure EV needs to be equipped with a trailer hitch to attach the long distance run gas generator. The suspension needs to be adapted to towing same as well as with a convenient plug in for the tow. The car's computer needs to be adapted to take the towed generator and turn it on or off as necessary. Charging station locations should be places at all hotel parking lots. Any hotel without them will soon begin to loose customers. I expect that the presence of same will be mentioned in motel adds from coast to coast once the Leaf goes on sale. A feature that should be included in EV should be solar cells covering the entire outside to the vehicle. Adding plug in stations to all parking lots should be a good idea. Your local electric company should pay for this. The government should loan the electric company the money to so equip parking lots, which would take care of initial installation costs. All EV need to be equipped with an electric meter to pay for the juice used at public charging stations. The national bureau of standards should issue regulations dealing with the size, shape and connections of all batteries and charging outlets to allow for different brands of cars to use different brands of replacement batteries and charging stations. A pure EV needs to be equipped with a trailer hitch to attach the long distance run gas generator. The suspension needs to be adapted to towing same as well as with a convenient plug in for the tow. The car’s computer needs to be adapted to take the towed generator and turn it on or off as necessary. Charging station locations should be places at all hotel parking lots. Any hotel without them will soon begin to loose customers. I expect that the presence of same will be mentioned in motel adds from coast to coast once the Leaf goes on sale. A feature that should be included in EV should be solar cells covering the entire outside to the vehicle. Adding plug in stations to all parking lots should be a good idea. Your local electric company should pay for this. The government should loan the electric company the money to so equip parking lots, which would take care of initial installation costs. All EV need to be equipped with an electric meter to pay for the juice used at public charging stations. The national bureau of standards should issue regulations dealing with the size, shape and connections of all batteries and charging outlets to allow for different brands of cars to use different brands of replacement batteries and charging stations.

]]> By: William G Brand http://gas2.org/2010/03/08/public-electric-car-charging-stations-may-go-largely-unused/#comment-37870 William G Brand Tue, 09 Mar 2010 19:59:00 +0000 http://gas2.org/?p=5743#comment-37870 A pure EV needs to be equipped with a trailer hitch to attach the long distance run gas generator. The suspension needs to be adapted to towing same as well as with a convenient plug in for the tow. The car's computer needs to be adapted to take the towed generator and turn it on or off as necessary. Charging station locations should be places at all hotel parking lots. Any hotel without them will soon begin to loose customers. I expect that the presence of same will be mentioned in motel adds from coast to coast once the Leaf goes on sale. A feature that should be included in EV should be solar cells covering the entire outside to the vehicle. Adding plug in stations to all parking lots should be a good idea. Your local electric company should pay for this. The government should loan the electric company the money to so equip parking lots, which would take care of initial installation costs. All EV need to be equipped with an electric meter to pay for the juice used at public charging stations. The national bureau of standards should issue regulations dealing with the size, shape and connections of all batteries and charging outlets to allow for different brands of cars to use different brands of replacement batteries and charging stations. A pure EV needs to be equipped with a trailer hitch to attach the long distance run gas generator. The suspension needs to be adapted to towing same as well as with a convenient plug in for the tow. The car’s computer needs to be adapted to take the towed generator and turn it on or off as necessary. Charging station locations should be places at all hotel parking lots. Any hotel without them will soon begin to loose customers. I expect that the presence of same will be mentioned in motel adds from coast to coast once the Leaf goes on sale. A feature that should be included in EV should be solar cells covering the entire outside to the vehicle. Adding plug in stations to all parking lots should be a good idea. Your local electric company should pay for this. The government should loan the electric company the money to so equip parking lots, which would take care of initial installation costs. All EV need to be equipped with an electric meter to pay for the juice used at public charging stations. The national bureau of standards should issue regulations dealing with the size, shape and connections of all batteries and charging outlets to allow for different brands of cars to use different brands of replacement batteries and charging stations.

]]> By: Neil Blanchard http://gas2.org/2010/03/08/public-electric-car-charging-stations-may-go-largely-unused/#comment-14097 Neil Blanchard Tue, 09 Mar 2010 18:57:44 +0000 http://gas2.org/?p=5743#comment-14097 Hi Joe & Nick, I think we need to look at actual production EV's, like the EV-1 and the RAV4 EV. Both are *first* generation EV's so we should expect a few teething problems. I think the record speaks for itself: EV's have very few moving parts, and those few parts are extremely hardy and robust; I have heard longevity numbers on AC motors like 850,000 to 1,000,000 miles! Wear parts like brakes are not stressed very hard in EV's with regenerative braking. They should last a lot longer than in ICE powered cars. Other than early EV-1's having various and sundry issues (many unrelated to the drive train), and things like the rear shocks on the RAV4 EV going (probably because they were not redesigned for the greater weight?), the only wear items on an EV are the tires and wiper blades. And the battery pack lasts a lot longer on the RAV4 EV than anybody would have guessed. Sure, Joe, there could be various electronic and/or motor issues, but in a properly designed and tested production EV, the overall reliability of an EV look to be far better than an ICE powered vehicle, and the maintenance costs look to be far lower, too. On the size of the Volt's 1.4L 4-cylinder engine; the Lotus range extender is 1.2L 3-cylinder, and the Getrag unit has a 2-cylinder (of unknown displacement). The Toyota 1/X used a 500cc engine, and the QED serial hybrid Mini used a 250cc engine: http://www.gizmag.com/go/6104/ Also, please consider that the Cruze uses a turbo version of the same engine as the Volt, in a vehicle that is very similar size. I think the Volt is way over-engineered in this regard. Sincerely, Neil Hi Joe & Nick,

I think we need to look at actual production EV’s, like the EV-1 and the RAV4 EV. Both are *first* generation EV’s so we should expect a few teething problems.

I think the record speaks for itself: EV’s have very few moving parts, and those few parts are extremely hardy and robust; I have heard longevity numbers on AC motors like 850,000 to 1,000,000 miles!

Wear parts like brakes are not stressed very hard in EV’s with regenerative braking. They should last a lot longer than in ICE powered cars.

Other than early EV-1′s having various and sundry issues (many unrelated to the drive train), and things like the rear shocks on the RAV4 EV going (probably because they were not redesigned for the greater weight?), the only wear items on an EV are the tires and wiper blades. And the battery pack lasts a lot longer on the RAV4 EV than anybody would have guessed.

Sure, Joe, there could be various electronic and/or motor issues, but in a properly designed and tested production EV, the overall reliability of an EV look to be far better than an ICE powered vehicle, and the maintenance costs look to be far lower, too.

On the size of the Volt’s 1.4L 4-cylinder engine; the Lotus range extender is 1.2L 3-cylinder, and the Getrag unit has a 2-cylinder (of unknown displacement). The Toyota 1/X used a 500cc engine, and the QED serial hybrid Mini used a 250cc engine:

http://www.gizmag.com/go/6104/

Also, please consider that the Cruze uses a turbo version of the same engine as the Volt, in a vehicle that is very similar size. I think the Volt is way over-engineered in this regard.

Sincerely, Neil

]]> By: Neil Blanchard http://gas2.org/2010/03/08/public-electric-car-charging-stations-may-go-largely-unused/#comment-37869 Neil Blanchard Tue, 09 Mar 2010 18:57:00 +0000 http://gas2.org/?p=5743#comment-37869 Hi Joe & Nick, I think we need to look at actual production EV's, like the EV-1 and the RAV4 EV. Both are *first* generation EV's so we should expect a few teething problems. I think the record speaks for itself: EV's have very few moving parts, and those few parts are extremely hardy and robust; I have heard longevity numbers on AC motors like 850,000 to 1,000,000 miles! Wear parts like brakes are not stressed very hard in EV's with regenerative braking. They should last a lot longer than in ICE powered cars. Other than early EV-1's having various and sundry issues (many unrelated to the drive train), and things like the rear shocks on the RAV4 EV going (probably because they were not redesigned for the greater weight?), the only wear items on an EV are the tires and wiper blades. And the battery pack lasts a lot longer on the RAV4 EV than anybody would have guessed. Sure, Joe, there could be various electronic and/or motor issues, but in a properly designed and tested production EV, the overall reliability of an EV look to be far better than an ICE powered vehicle, and the maintenance costs look to be far lower, too. On the size of the Volt's 1.4L 4-cylinder engine; the Lotus range extender is 1.2L 3-cylinder, and the Getrag unit has a 2-cylinder (of unknown displacement). The Toyota 1/X used a 500cc engine, and the QED serial hybrid Mini used a 250cc engine: http://www.gizmag.com/go/6104/ Also, please consider that the Cruze uses a turbo version of the same engine as the Volt, in a vehicle that is very similar size. I think the Volt is way over-engineered in this regard. Sincerely, Neil Hi Joe & Nick,

I think we need to look at actual production EV’s, like the EV-1 and the RAV4 EV. Both are *first* generation EV’s so we should expect a few teething problems.

I think the record speaks for itself: EV’s have very few moving parts, and those few parts are extremely hardy and robust; I have heard longevity numbers on AC motors like 850,000 to 1,000,000 miles!

Wear parts like brakes are not stressed very hard in EV’s with regenerative braking. They should last a lot longer than in ICE powered cars.

Other than early EV-1′s having various and sundry issues (many unrelated to the drive train), and things like the rear shocks on the RAV4 EV going (probably because they were not redesigned for the greater weight?), the only wear items on an EV are the tires and wiper blades. And the battery pack lasts a lot longer on the RAV4 EV than anybody would have guessed.

Sure, Joe, there could be various electronic and/or motor issues, but in a properly designed and tested production EV, the overall reliability of an EV look to be far better than an ICE powered vehicle, and the maintenance costs look to be far lower, too.

On the size of the Volt’s 1.4L 4-cylinder engine; the Lotus range extender is 1.2L 3-cylinder, and the Getrag unit has a 2-cylinder (of unknown displacement). The Toyota 1/X used a 500cc engine, and the QED serial hybrid Mini used a 250cc engine:

http://www.gizmag.com/go/6104/

Also, please consider that the Cruze uses a turbo version of the same engine as the Volt, in a vehicle that is very similar size. I think the Volt is way over-engineered in this regard.

Sincerely, Neil

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