If you’re like me, then you still don’t know who to believe about Toyota’s “unintended acceleration” problem. Toyota says it isn’t an electrical issue. In the past they’ve also blamed, of all things, floor mats.
ABC news found a technology professor named David Gilbert who claims he can create a short that causes Toyotas to accelerate, although his results have been proven to be difficult to recreate. Unsurprisingly, Toyota says his results are suspect. Yet, some owners of “fixed” cars are still complaining about unintended acceleration. Toyota has said they’re looking into it.
Edmunds, determined to get to the bottom of all this, has decided to offer $1 million to whoever can figure out exactly what is behind all of this acceleration madness and fix it.
While this isn’t exactly alternative fuels related, it does affect the Toyota Prius and it represents a new way to tackle the problem in a Web 2.0 crowdsourcing kind of way. Besides, maybe somebody out there reading this blog can figure the problem out for the rest of us. Because frankly, I am tired of hearing about it. Seems like Edmunds is too. They claim they have been hearing stories about unintentional acceleration since the Audi debacle some twenty years ago. Audi’s issues with acceleration was before my time, but essentially, 60 Minutes engineered the acceleration using a canister of compressed air.
Today’s cars are not so easily swayed. But there is lots of electronics and programming that goes into every car. As an avid video gamer, I know that even the most elaborate, expensive-to-produce games still have their fair share of bugs. Edmunds is drafting rules for their contest now, but these sorts of open-source contests might actually produce the best solution. The hearings on Washington left most of us just scratching our heads, wondering what happened. With $1 million on the line though, somebody might produce some compelling results.
I have to say that while the evidence seems to have piled up against Toyota, I have to believe that at this point they genuinely want to fix this problem, if not for the public’s peace of mind, at least for their bottom line. Toyota posted an almost 9% drop in car sales last month compared with February 2009, when we were in the midst of the recession. It took Audi a long time to dig out from under their acceleration mess, and Toyota knows it. Until they come up with a solid answer, their sales and reputation are going to continue to take a beating.
So all you computer and engineering wizards should get to work; it could make you a millionaire. Just try not to ruin your car in the process.
Sources: Edmunds | Autoblog via ABC News | Bloomberg
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About Christopher DeMorro
your problem could be lack of proper emi shielding of the electrical unit that causes these excerallations. Seen it many times on sensitive electronic equipment while in the Navy. Check it out, send me some money if i am correct.
paul artrip
partrip@wildblue.net
I’ve solved this type of problem before. Static electricity is one big cause of events that are hard to duplicate. Software solutions carry a risk of the cure being worse than the disease. (This has happened to Boeing).
Allan Rydberg
Research Engineer
Brown University
I’ve solved this type of problem before. Static electricity is one big cause of events that are hard to duplicate. Software solutions carry a risk of the cure being worse than the disease. (This has happened to Boeing).
Allan Rydberg
Research Engineer
Brown University
It is possible that the acceleration problem is due to a vacuum loop in the system caused by the abs brakes being tied into the power brake booster. This can cause a large intermittent surge in the vacuum system increasing airflow into the throttle body and the computer reacts by giving the vehicle more gas. Also I would like to know if Toyota has changed anything about their cruise control systems and is this only happening on cars equipped with ABS or cruise control or both. If these are still vacuum driven systems then there could be an issue here also either with a vacuum surge or intermittent electrical failure causing the gas pedal to accelerate even with the cruise control deactivated. Please feel free to contact me with any more information, engineering changes or questions.
It is possible that the acceleration problem is due to a vacuum loop in the system caused by the abs brakes being tied into the power brake booster. This can cause a large intermittent surge in the vacuum system increasing airflow into the throttle body and the computer reacts by giving the vehicle more gas. Also I would like to know if Toyota has changed anything about their cruise control systems and is this only happening on cars equipped with ABS or cruise control or both. If these are still vacuum driven systems then there could be an issue here also either with a vacuum surge or intermittent electrical failure causing the gas pedal to accelerate even with the cruise control deactivated. Please feel free to contact me with any more information, engineering changes or questions.
“Technology Professor” Gilbert was proven a dipwad months ago. Ignore him like a dead toad in the road. As for the sudden acceleration? Take your foot off the gas. That’s my answer, now where’s my money?
“Technology Professor” Gilbert was proven a dipwad months ago. Ignore him like a dead toad in the road. As for the sudden acceleration? Take your foot off the gas. That’s my answer, now where’s my money?
The real problem is in the sensitivity of the human foot. The foot is designed to naturally move in an up and down direction. Examples are in walking, running, jumping etc. The pedals in the cars changes this natural order; the foot is forced by the brain to move left and right then downwards for long periods of time routinely while driving and multitasking. Fatigue sets in eventually and the foot literally revolts under pressure to force only in a downward direction for relief. Hence the problem of uncontrolled acceleration and mayhem results.
The solution is to replace the two pedals (i.e. for brakes and fuel) with one pedal. This one pedal should cause acceleration when depressed and by default braking when released. Thus re-storing the natural order of the functioning human foot. Plus, I would recommend driving barefooted or with sensitive foot gear which would also enhance the experience of the driving pleasure even more and prevent ill shaped shoes from fouling-up the works.
The real problem is in the sensitivity of the human foot. The foot is designed to naturally move in an up and down direction. Examples are in walking, running, jumping etc. The pedals in the cars changes this natural order; the foot is forced by the brain to move left and right then downwards for long periods of time routinely while driving and multitasking. Fatigue sets in eventually and the foot literally revolts under pressure to force only in a downward direction for relief. Hence the problem of uncontrolled acceleration and mayhem results.
The solution is to replace the two pedals (i.e. for brakes and fuel) with one pedal. This one pedal should cause acceleration when depressed and by default braking when released. Thus re-storing the natural order of the functioning human foot. Plus, I would recommend driving barefooted or with sensitive foot gear which would also enhance the experience of the driving pleasure even more and prevent ill shaped shoes from fouling-up the works.
I may not be able to identify the exact problem, but there is a relatively easy solution to prevent damage when it occurs. Return to a mechanical linkage to control the intake butterfly valve and take the throttle position from this butterfly location instead of running everything “by wire”.
Closing the intake butterfly will shut off the air needed for combustion and therefore slow or stop the engine regardless of the amount of fuel feed into the engine by the electronic controls.
I may not be able to identify the exact problem, but there is a relatively easy solution to prevent damage when it occurs. Return to a mechanical linkage to control the intake butterfly valve and take the throttle position from this butterfly location instead of running everything “by wire”.
Closing the intake butterfly will shut off the air needed for combustion and therefore slow or stop the engine regardless of the amount of fuel feed into the engine by the electronic controls.
very simple a cable allways worked just fine my new dodge truck the honda and my toyota all cant get the conputor to think fast enought we drive and get pissed off hitting the gas and 10 seconds later the auto gets going change back to cable simple idea why do we need all thease wasted parts on are cars oh ya the the auto companys couldnt make alot of monny on cheep part to sell for 100.00 s even if it was 30.00 to make just something to think about ! why isnt the great usa useing natural gas we have it it runs clean and the engines would run for years oh ya thats right the auto company wouldnt make any monny like gas bounses in there pockits thanks oldtimer
Mechanical linkage can still stick — ask Audi (and others) about that.
The throttle by wire allows the computer to make continuous fine adjustments to increase efficiency and decrease emissions.
Q: what did this professor do that caused him to lose his credibility?
BTW: unintended acceleration is not limited to Toyota: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124276771
Sincerely, Neil
Mechanical linkage can still stick — ask Audi (and others) about that.
The throttle by wire allows the computer to make continuous fine adjustments to increase efficiency and decrease emissions.
Q: what did this professor do that caused him to lose his credibility?
BTW: unintended acceleration is not limited to Toyota: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124276771
Sincerely, Neil
The prize should go to Richard A. Schmidt
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/11/opinion/11schmidt.html
The prize should go to Richard A. Schmidt
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/11/opinion/11schmidt.html
Paul Artrip is correct
frequency testing and then electromagnetic shielding
been there done that …….with a brand new Lincoln
Paul Artrip is correct
frequency testing and then electromagnetic shielding
been there done that …….with a brand new Lincoln
Edmunds,
The Toyota acceleration problem leads me to dig into the only 2 mechanisms that cause acceleration in a car or truck: the accelerator pedal & cruise control. The pedal has been raked over many times. As far as I know nobody has yet discussed cruise control. If a driver turns on cruise control & sets it to a speed , it will hold that speed until the speed is changed or disabled; i.e., touching the break pedal . If the cruise control remains on but not set to any speed there may be an open loop condition that could cause a runaway speed/acceleration, if there is a defect in the design or manufacure of the electronics. The cruise control electronics may cause unintended acceleration unless it is turned off. Some drivers may never turn off cruise control.
Some common electronics manufacturing problems are: cracked solder joints or plated thru holes (PTH) or vias in a printed wiring board, very difficult to find in factory test. PTHs may also be temperature sensitive; closed circuit when cold, open circuit when hot. An open circuit PTH could cause the open loop, runaway acceleration, then disappear when the hardware cools. Intermittent faults are the most difficult to find & fix.
Also: an unapproved – cheaper – parts or material substitution could cause out of spec performance, & runaway acceleration.
George Kiefer, BSEE, retired
Edmunds,
The Toyota acceleration problem leads me to dig into the only 2 mechanisms that cause acceleration in a car or truck: the accelerator pedal & cruise control. The pedal has been raked over many times. As far as I know nobody has yet discussed cruise control. If a driver turns on cruise control & sets it to a speed , it will hold that speed until the speed is changed or disabled; i.e., touching the break pedal . If the cruise control remains on but not set to any speed there may be an open loop condition that could cause a runaway speed/acceleration, if there is a defect in the design or manufacure of the electronics. The cruise control electronics may cause unintended acceleration unless it is turned off. Some drivers may never turn off cruise control.
Some common electronics manufacturing problems are: cracked solder joints or plated thru holes (PTH) or vias in a printed wiring board, very difficult to find in factory test. PTHs may also be temperature sensitive; closed circuit when cold, open circuit when hot. An open circuit PTH could cause the open loop, runaway acceleration, then disappear when the hardware cools. Intermittent faults are the most difficult to find & fix.
Also: an unapproved – cheaper – parts or material substitution could cause out of spec performance, & runaway acceleration.
George Kiefer, BSEE, retired
Since throttle position is something used all the time in any remote controlled “vehicle” such as model airplanes and RC Cars, and since the throttle is now controlled by a computer, if someone tells the computer using a radio frequency to “stick open”, it would be the radio operater and not the driver who had control.
I just had it happen to me about an hour ago. I borrowed a Dodge mini-van, and was on a California Freeway with a fairly good downgrade. I use caution on this hill because a lot of the time there is a CHP Cruiser running radar on the curve. There are also numerous tall radio masts used by Law Enforcement to boost their radio signals in the hilly terrain.
I had my foot completly off of the throttle and was occasionally touching the brakes. Much to my surprise, as soon as I passed the parked cruiser, the van suddenly went to full throttle. I let it gain about 5 mph before I calmly put it in neutral and hit the brakes. The tach went down and the throttle went to the normal position. At this point I looked at the steering wheel thinking the borrowed van must be a Toyota. As soon as I saw the Dodge Ram symbol, I shrugged to myself and put it back into Drive. My foot was on the throttle, and as soon as it clicked into place, I literally felt the pedal bury itself and stick wide open. I quickly put it into neutral and glanced in my rear-view to see what the cruiser was doing. Our Hero was pointing what looked to be a common radar gun in my general direction. I braked down to 60, hit the base of the hill and started to coast up thye next hill. My speed fell to 50 before the Cop went onto another vehicle, and when I put it into drive I had control of the vehicle all the way home.
The only time the throttle stuck open was around the cop running “radar”. I’m not saying that it is a conspiracy to get more revenue generated by remotly controlling vehicles, all I am suggesting is that perhaps the radar gun is causing some sort of malfunction, or perhaps a desired function, that interfered with something between the bottom of my foot and the end of the linkage. It used to be purely mechanical and spring actuated, but the “new improved” model uses hundreds of dollars more in production to make sure that the computer in the car is the one calling the shots instead of the driver.
That does not sound like an “improvement” at all. More like an engineeering failure, or a blatent attempt to make sure that whoever built and programmed the vehicles computer was the one who ultimatly controlled the vehicle.
Maybe the “Engineer” who came up with this brialliant scheme was paid to come up with it, and yet another stupid law was enacted by the “Government Safety Commision” to make sure all vehicles sold in the US were thus equipped.
HMMMMMMMM…. The new owners of these American Companys, being the same one creating thousands upon thousands of new regulations yearly, all in the name of “Public Safety”….
Hmmmmmm….. Federal Law requiring all vehicles to have stuff in them that is either an “Engineering Flaw” – because making a device which does the job for the least amount of production is all part of enginneering. If I ran a Car Company and someone pitched this “improvement” at me I would have fired him on the spot for trying to run my business into the ground with huge new production costs.
Of course, if I owned the business not for the intention to turn a profit, but to increase my Control and Need for Power, it would be a snap to use force to make sure every new domestic and foreign car was thus equipped so I could take control of it.
Because if this Government really has sunk to the level of creating such a device to be used to either control moter vehicles remotely, with any intent other than to shut down a high speed pursuit, they are abusing the Power entrusted to them by the People.
If this is indeed what is causing this “Mechanical Defect” in the main competitor to the new owners of Americas Car Makers, it would appear the the New owners are not concerned with selling a superior product on the open market, but are used to using force and strong-arm tactics to get their desired results.
Why else would the new owners of these car companies fire all the competant people in those companies, and then have such a rich anti-competition propaganda event such as this Toyota recall “coincidently” come out of nowhere to help boost sales over their sh*tty cars they “produce”.
While “coincidently” any older vehicle without computers has had the registration tax go right thru the roof, to the point where it is no longer economically sound to still drive it around….
If they cannot remotley control the vehicle, heck, have a government sponsered “Clunker Buy back deal” where the new owners of those car companys spent literally billions of dollars of your dollars buying cars for twice, three times their blue book value, an Asinine Government Idea if I ever saw one, to make sure that every last person who owns a moter vehicle has been straight suckered and forced to own “Safe Cars” with “safety devices”- and lectured and force-fed complete bull spit about fossil fuel pollution solutions that either an imbecile or some crafty algore type came up with.
Can I “prove” any of this to “win” a million dollars?
No, but then again the lure of Free Millions does not interest me in the least.
Because there aint no such thing as a Free lunch, or free million dollars, only Freedom from Government restriction and control….
My father-inlaw and I were talking about this problem last week and he believes it is the cruise control. Some combination of the cruise being on and either the button for cruise acceleration being stuck or the computer making it engage. I’m sure Toyota has tested this components but maybe not in the right compination.
My father-inlaw and I were talking about this problem last week and he believes it is the cruise control. Some combination of the cruise being on and either the button for cruise acceleration being stuck or the computer making it engage. I’m sure Toyota has tested this components but maybe not in the right compination.
I meant to spell combination in the last sentence.
I meant to spell combination in the last sentence.
Oh you people…I bet you all have yearly subscription to the national enquirer and believe every line you read. Hilarious how the news doesn’t have to be accountable for what they report!
Out of over 8 million cars you are bound to find at least 100 idiots that will claim anything…..no one will prove it because it is a pile of government propaganda bullshit!
Oh you people…I bet you all have yearly subscription to the national enquirer and believe every line you read. Hilarious how the news doesn’t have to be accountable for what they report!
Out of over 8 million cars you are bound to find at least 100 idiots that will claim anything…..no one will prove it because it is a pile of government propaganda bullshit!
Two possibilites: we have a large bunch of whiners here who prefer to blame everyone else but themselves for their shortcomings. On the other hand, I’ve had acceleration / stalling problems with cars over a long period: My 75 Dodge with its throttle stuck full-open for miles before it unstuck itself and I’d drive with my brake pedal in the mean time. My recent Honda with a sticky idle air mix valve stalling continuously at traffic lights (problem fixed with idle valve replaced at over 100,000 miles on car). This could be a malfunctioning sensor or control device related to the fuel mix or throttle control. Anyways, the brakes should easily overpower the engine, and then putting an automatic in neutral to maintain power steering and power brakes function should easily stop the car. We seem to have a bunch of idiots driving cars on the road.
Two possibilites: we have a large bunch of whiners here who prefer to blame everyone else but themselves for their shortcomings. On the other hand, I’ve had acceleration / stalling problems with cars over a long period: My 75 Dodge with its throttle stuck full-open for miles before it unstuck itself and I’d drive with my brake pedal in the mean time. My recent Honda with a sticky idle air mix valve stalling continuously at traffic lights (problem fixed with idle valve replaced at over 100,000 miles on car). This could be a malfunctioning sensor or control device related to the fuel mix or throttle control. Anyways, the brakes should easily overpower the engine, and then putting an automatic in neutral to maintain power steering and power brakes function should easily stop the car. We seem to have a bunch of idiots driving cars on the road.
This has to be Cruse control problem. I am sure you would find that all the cars that have done this have cruse control or the parts for cruse on them. The ones that have done it that dont have it are prob copycats money grubers
This has to be Cruse control problem. I am sure you would find that all the cars that have done this have cruse control or the parts for cruse on them. The ones that have done it that dont have it are prob copycats money grubers
I have noticed that when my 2005 Prius rolls downhill for a certain period of time, the battery becomes completely full. At that point, I get a racing sound, like rapid acceleration, and must hit the brake. I would be doing this anyway as I come to the bottom of the hill. As soon as the green line on the battery comes down one spot, this stops happening. I believe the rapid acceleration is caused by an overly full battery and allowing the car to expend this fullness, takes care of the problem. Depressing the brake works fine in reigning in the racing sound.