In true modern internet style, pictures of Lexus’ brand-spanking-new compact hybrid 4-door hatchback appear to have leaked out ahead of its official debut in Geneva next week… there is no such thing as surprise car launches anymore.
Building on the LF-Ch concept shown at the Frankfurt Auto Show last year (and then dragged from auto show to auto show), the Lexus CT 200h, although moderately toned down, appears to have not strayed far from that car’s original styling cues.
Aside from the pictures, there are scant few details at this point. But what I can tell you is that it is slightly smaller than a Prius, it has a 1.8-liter four cylinder VVT-i gas engine, an electronically-controlled continuously variable transmission, a NiMH battery pack mounted below the cargo area, and the choice of four driving modes: Eco, Normal, Sport and all-electric… That’s right, it apparently has the ability to drive in all electric mode. Though, with the NiMH pack it surely won’t have much of a range. [Update 2/26/2010: Lexus has released more information and, indeed, the car can only go 1.2 miles at speeds under 28 mph when in EV mode]
We’ll make sure to dish all the details when they become official next week. Based on past comments from Lexus officials, it appears that there are no plans to bring the CT 200h to the U.S. yet, althought reasons have not been laid out. This may be another case of the U.S. getting shafted, we’ll just have to wait and see.
In the meantime, enjoy the rather grainy leaked photos below.
Source: Autocar
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Idiot. Our NiMH Toyota RAV4-EV goes up to 150 miles on a charge; the NiMH EV1 went up to 160 miles on bad GM batteries, and would have gone 200 if equipped with the superior Toyota NiMH.
Why don’t you study before you garble??
” That’s right, it apparently has the ability to drive in all electric mode. Though, with the NiMH pack it surely won’t have much of a range.”
Idiot. Our NiMH Toyota RAV4-EV goes up to 150 miles on a charge; the NiMH EV1 went up to 160 miles on bad GM batteries, and would have gone 200 if equipped with the superior Toyota NiMH.
Why don’t you study before you garble??
” That’s right, it apparently has the ability to drive in all electric mode. Though, with the NiMH pack it surely won’t have much of a range.”
Mr. Korthof,
Why don’t you take a chill pill and think before you start rabbling on? If you even knew the amount of posts I’ve done in support of EVs I think you’d be extremely embarrassed right now. Get a grip. Hold on, dude, take a deep breath. Stop trying so desperately to make enemies of even those that are likely your closest allies and you might actually make some headway.
I’m well aware of the NiMH batteries in the RAV4. I too am well aware of all the shenanigans that led up to the CA EV mandate being destroyed. The RAV4 EV is certainly a great vehicle. The RAV4 EV also has a HUGE battery pack compared to this car. It is a scientific fact that NiMH batteries are far inferior to Lithium-ion in terms of energy density per unit weight… that’s why you don’t see any of the manufacturers who are introducing an EV in this second coming of the EV using NiMH. Toyota themselves have switched from NiMH in their regular Prius hybrid to lithium-ion in their upcoming plug-in Prius due to just that fact. The Ford Fusion Hybrid has a NiMH battery pack, yet can only drive for short stints in a pseudo-EV mode. In a car this size (like the CT 200h) that already has all the components of a regular hybrid, there is no way that the NiMH battery pack can be large enough to accommodate much pure EV driving at all.
And your claim that there is nothing in the works like the RAV4 EV is completely false. The mitsubishi PX-MiEV set to be released in 2013 would fit the bill very nicely.
Automakers are acknowledging that past EVs were successful. Where have you been, under a rock? Virtually every automaker with a pulse is currently designing and planning on releasing pure EVs and EREVs in the near future.
I feel like I should be the one calling you an idiot instead of vice versa, but it always seems that the ones most deserving of that title never get told it enough because those of us with less of a temper and more rationality tend to be more frugal with the nasty terms we bandy about.
Mr. Korthof,
Why don’t you take a chill pill and think before you start rabbling on? If you even knew the amount of posts I’ve done in support of EVs I think you’d be extremely embarrassed right now. Get a grip. Hold on, dude, take a deep breath. Stop trying so desperately to make enemies of even those that are likely your closest allies and you might actually make some headway.
I’m well aware of the NiMH batteries in the RAV4. I too am well aware of all the shenanigans that led up to the CA EV mandate being destroyed. The RAV4 EV is certainly a great vehicle. The RAV4 EV also has a HUGE battery pack compared to this car. It is a scientific fact that NiMH batteries are far inferior to Lithium-ion in terms of energy density per unit weight… that’s why you don’t see any of the manufacturers who are introducing an EV in this second coming of the EV using NiMH. Toyota themselves have switched from NiMH in their regular Prius hybrid to lithium-ion in their upcoming plug-in Prius due to just that fact. The Ford Fusion Hybrid has a NiMH battery pack, yet can only drive for short stints in a pseudo-EV mode. In a car this size (like the CT 200h) that already has all the components of a regular hybrid, there is no way that the NiMH battery pack can be large enough to accommodate much pure EV driving at all.
And your claim that there is nothing in the works like the RAV4 EV is completely false. The mitsubishi PX-MiEV set to be released in 2013 would fit the bill very nicely.
Automakers are acknowledging that past EVs were successful. Where have you been, under a rock? Virtually every automaker with a pulse is currently designing and planning on releasing pure EVs and EREVs in the near future.
I feel like I should be the one calling you an idiot instead of vice versa, but it always seems that the ones most deserving of that title never get told it enough because those of us with less of a temper and more rationality tend to be more frugal with the nasty terms we bandy about.
The most successful EV of all time, the Toyota RAV4-EV, uses NiMH batteries. To date, there is NOTHING in the works equivalent.
In all the flurry of supposed Auto Company activity to “build an electric car”, it seems to be forgotten that we already HAD a successful electric car, way back in 1990, 1996, 1997, 2000.
To be credible, auto makers would have to at least acknowledge that the past EVs were successful; maybe think about duplicating the most successful EV ever made, the Toyota RAV4-EV.
The Toyota RAV4-EV, sold only for 6 months in 2002, are almost all on the road, to this day, in the hands of private party owners.
Only the TESLA Roadster, based on the EV1, has more EVs in the hands of owners.
Both RAV4-EV and Tesla have hundreds more than any Fuel Cell car (no fuel cell car is, or will be, owned; all are million-dollar test drones, lease only).
Yet supposedly the EV was killed, in 2003, to make way for the fuel cell cars.
So it’s ironic, the EV was killed to make room for fuel cells, and not one fuel cell is owned; yet the dead RAV4-EV is still on the road, hundreds of them delivering fine service to their loving owners.
But no one has planned anything comparable to the RAV4-EV.
This 5-passenger hatch-back EV carries up to 1000 lbs. of tools, is durable, useful, over 120 miles range (150 in a pinch); its battery pack lasts longer than 100,000 miles, and its batteries can be reprocessed to make new batteries without new metal or new mining.
The most successful EV of all time, the Toyota RAV4-EV, uses NiMH batteries. To date, there is NOTHING in the works equivalent.
In all the flurry of supposed Auto Company activity to “build an electric car”, it seems to be forgotten that we already HAD a successful electric car, way back in 1990, 1996, 1997, 2000.
To be credible, auto makers would have to at least acknowledge that the past EVs were successful; maybe think about duplicating the most successful EV ever made, the Toyota RAV4-EV.
The Toyota RAV4-EV, sold only for 6 months in 2002, are almost all on the road, to this day, in the hands of private party owners.
Only the TESLA Roadster, based on the EV1, has more EVs in the hands of owners.
Both RAV4-EV and Tesla have hundreds more than any Fuel Cell car (no fuel cell car is, or will be, owned; all are million-dollar test drones, lease only).
Yet supposedly the EV was killed, in 2003, to make way for the fuel cell cars.
So it’s ironic, the EV was killed to make room for fuel cells, and not one fuel cell is owned; yet the dead RAV4-EV is still on the road, hundreds of them delivering fine service to their loving owners.
But no one has planned anything comparable to the RAV4-EV.
This 5-passenger hatch-back EV carries up to 1000 lbs. of tools, is durable, useful, over 120 miles range (150 in a pinch); its battery pack lasts longer than 100,000 miles, and its batteries can be reprocessed to make new batteries without new metal or new mining.
Oh Mr. Hothead,
You’re going to love this one–Lexus has just dropped official figures, and guess what? The CT 200h “can run in EV mode for up to 1.2 miles at speeds up to 28 miles per hour.”
Oh yeah, that’s one hell of a range! Turns out I was completely right. What do you have to say now?
Oh Mr. Hothead,
You’re going to love this one–Lexus has just dropped official figures, and guess what? The CT 200h “can run in EV mode for up to 1.2 miles at speeds up to 28 miles per hour.”
Oh yeah, that’s one hell of a range! Turns out I was completely right. What do you have to say now?
Actually, the battery pack in the
Toyota RAV4-EV is not “huge”!! It’s 24 batteries under the car, providing a stability that helps on turns and makes it almost impossible to turn over.
The battery pack, containing (and delivering) 30 kWh of energy, weighs about twice what the Chevy Volt pack weighs. But the VOLT only contains 16 kWh and can only deliver 8 kWh. The reason Lithium packs are subject to this limitation is the simple fact:
NO LITHIUM EV HAS YET GONE MORE THAN 50K MILES ON THE SAME PACK.
You state familiarity with the Chevron-GM patent squat on the NiMH batteries, and their lawsuit that stopped Toyota from making the batteries or the plugin cars. That’s right, all the plug-in batteries stopped being made after Nov. 2002, when Toyota submitted to Chevron. Chevron recently sold the patents to Bosch/Samsung, but retained its stranglehold on the Toyota settlement.
So far NO ONE has “moved to Lithium” except Hymotion, which has about 100 Lithium plug-in prius of unknown durability, and the Tesla, none of which have yet gone even 40K miles on the same pack.
Toyota has announced it’s using Lithium for its small fleet of plug-in prius; but the history of attempts to make lithium plug-in prius work is littered with failures. There are literally dozens of people who have tried to do this, and many sold to agencies: but the batteries just didn’t hold up. City of Santa Monica, for example, paid $35,000 for one conversion; it’s no longer on the road, but they are still driving dozens of NiMH RAV4-EV.
That’s the difference: Lithium might work, some day, but to put all your hopes on lithium when we already have a proven battery seems reckless.
Ask yourself why no plug-in NiMH car can now be made, even though the only successful EVs ever made — EV1, HondaEV, RangerEV and Rav4-EV — ALL USED THE PANASONIC-TOYOTA EV-95 NIMH BATTERY.
That’s why Chevron-GM didn’t want NiMH plug-in cars: because they work.
Maybe Lithium will work too, but it’s still unproven, and NOT AT ALL “clearly superior”. Lithium tends to break down under high power draw; a 400v ACP vehicle has to draw up to 400 Amps, or about 160 kW, which in the past has not lasted as long as the RAV4-EV.
Which are still in daily use.
To date, none of the supposed “flock” of promised EVs are as good as the RAV4-EV: Volt, with a battery half the weight of the RAV4-EV’s NiMH, only goes 40 miles (and I bet that will go down after 20K miles, as it has in the past); the 20 kWh LEAF pack, with cooling stuff, weighs about the same as the RAV4-EV pack and won’t even take it over 100 miles (RAV4-EV still, after 8 years, go over 100 miles!); the Tesla goes up to 236 miles on its 56 kWh 900 lb. pack (slightly more than the RAV4-EV) but is ony two seat, and can’t carry 1000 lbs. of tools like our hatchbacki. Even worse, if the NiMH had been improved, instead of killed, they would have been even better; the improved NiMH in the RAV4-EV would have powered the EV1 about 200 miles, about the same as the Tesla.
Actually, the battery pack in the
Toyota RAV4-EV is not “huge”!! It’s 24 batteries under the car, providing a stability that helps on turns and makes it almost impossible to turn over.
The battery pack, containing (and delivering) 30 kWh of energy, weighs about twice what the Chevy Volt pack weighs. But the VOLT only contains 16 kWh and can only deliver 8 kWh. The reason Lithium packs are subject to this limitation is the simple fact:
NO LITHIUM EV HAS YET GONE MORE THAN 50K MILES ON THE SAME PACK.
You state familiarity with the Chevron-GM patent squat on the NiMH batteries, and their lawsuit that stopped Toyota from making the batteries or the plugin cars. That’s right, all the plug-in batteries stopped being made after Nov. 2002, when Toyota submitted to Chevron. Chevron recently sold the patents to Bosch/Samsung, but retained its stranglehold on the Toyota settlement.
So far NO ONE has “moved to Lithium” except Hymotion, which has about 100 Lithium plug-in prius of unknown durability, and the Tesla, none of which have yet gone even 40K miles on the same pack.
Toyota has announced it’s using Lithium for its small fleet of plug-in prius; but the history of attempts to make lithium plug-in prius work is littered with failures. There are literally dozens of people who have tried to do this, and many sold to agencies: but the batteries just didn’t hold up. City of Santa Monica, for example, paid $35,000 for one conversion; it’s no longer on the road, but they are still driving dozens of NiMH RAV4-EV.
That’s the difference: Lithium might work, some day, but to put all your hopes on lithium when we already have a proven battery seems reckless.
Ask yourself why no plug-in NiMH car can now be made, even though the only successful EVs ever made — EV1, HondaEV, RangerEV and Rav4-EV — ALL USED THE PANASONIC-TOYOTA EV-95 NIMH BATTERY.
That’s why Chevron-GM didn’t want NiMH plug-in cars: because they work.
Maybe Lithium will work too, but it’s still unproven, and NOT AT ALL “clearly superior”. Lithium tends to break down under high power draw; a 400v ACP vehicle has to draw up to 400 Amps, or about 160 kW, which in the past has not lasted as long as the RAV4-EV.
Which are still in daily use.
To date, none of the supposed “flock” of promised EVs are as good as the RAV4-EV: Volt, with a battery half the weight of the RAV4-EV’s NiMH, only goes 40 miles (and I bet that will go down after 20K miles, as it has in the past); the 20 kWh LEAF pack, with cooling stuff, weighs about the same as the RAV4-EV pack and won’t even take it over 100 miles (RAV4-EV still, after 8 years, go over 100 miles!); the Tesla goes up to 236 miles on its 56 kWh 900 lb. pack (slightly more than the RAV4-EV) but is ony two seat, and can’t carry 1000 lbs. of tools like our hatchbacki. Even worse, if the NiMH had been improved, instead of killed, they would have been even better; the improved NiMH in the RAV4-EV would have powered the EV1 about 200 miles, about the same as the Tesla.