I love winter, I really do. I also opted to get a 4×4 vehicle so I’m never really home bound, even in the worst blizzard. This is something not every New Englander has the luxury of owning, which means most people have to wait for those awful plow trucks to come through. Besides being loud, spewing emissions, and tearing up asphalt, putting plows on the road costs states many millions of dollars every winter.
But self-heating roads could melt snow before it ever gets a chance to accumulate while eliminating corrosive road salting and extensive plowing during winter snow storms.
Christina Chang and her colleagues at the University of Houston, Texas, are working on a design to incorporate heating elements into the asphalt and concrete roads to reduce the use of plowing. It’s a little weird that a Texas school is pursuing research for a problem they don’t have, but any idea that would get plow trucks off the roads is good to me.
So far, three ideas have been vetted. They first tried using fly ash, a by-product of coal power plants, followed by steel shavings. The idea is to use an element that resists electricity, thus producing heat. Both ideas worked, but the best ideas involve carbon nanofibres which heat the road much faster. The nanofibres are stacked like cups on a paper sheet and were able to heat a slab of concrete 10 centimeters thick and 25 centimeters in area from -10 degrees C to 0 degrees C in two hours using 6 watts of power.
Heating a whole roadway is going to take a lot more energy. It may even take more energy than all the combined plow trucks and salting equipment. Then there is a matter of what to do with all that excess melted snow… if two feet of snow are set to fall, what happens to the slush as it melts? Will it freeze to overpasses? Can this process be applied to the whole road system, or just highways?
It’s a good idea that needs some careful investigation. But if I don’t have to get stuck behind plows anymore, I would be most appreciative, and I think so would the environment.
Source: New Scientist | Picture: Mark Redman
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About Christopher DeMorro
When I was a boy (I’m 55 now), they had a heated driveway in the Detroit Edison “Home of the Future” display house at Greefield Village (now known as “The Ford”) in Dearborn Michigan.
When I was a boy (I’m 55 now), they had a heated driveway in the Detroit Edison “Home of the Future” display house at Greefield Village (now known as “The Ford”) in Dearborn Michigan.
When I was a boy (I’m 55 now), they had a heated driveway in the Detroit Edison “Home of the Future” display house at Greefield Village (now known as “The Ford”) in Dearborn Michigan.
When I was a boy (I’m 55 now), they had a heated driveway in the Detroit Edison “Home of the Future” display house at Greefield Village (now known as “The Ford”) in Dearborn Michigan.
Even though a more developed idea could design it to be smart, use just enough electricity for just enough time to avoid making black ice, the energy input would be staggeringly many times that of plough equipment.
Multiply by all the square miles of candidate roads and I shudder to think how much the nations energy demand would increase. You’d still have to keep ploughs in case of major outages so that utility trucks can fix the lines.
Heating systems to prevent ice only make sense for critical things with relatively small surface areas like power lines or aircraft / wind turbine wings.
Even though a more developed idea could design it to be smart, use just enough electricity for just enough time to avoid making black ice, the energy input would be staggeringly many times that of plough equipment.
Multiply by all the square miles of candidate roads and I shudder to think how much the nations energy demand would increase. You’d still have to keep ploughs in case of major outages so that utility trucks can fix the lines.
Heating systems to prevent ice only make sense for critical things with relatively small surface areas like power lines or aircraft / wind turbine wings.
6 Watts per square inch means that to heat my 200 square foot driveway it would take 28.8 kilowatts. Running for a 6-hour storm would take 173 kWh–this would be a 50% increase in my monthly electric bill from just one storm. Instead of being so wasteful I’d much rather get a 1/2 hour of exercise and shovel it. I’m sure snowplows are more efficient except for unique applications like tight spots where they don’t fit or chronically icy areas.
6 Watts per square inch means that to heat my 200 square foot driveway it would take 28.8 kilowatts. Running for a 6-hour storm would take 173 kWh–this would be a 50% increase in my monthly electric bill from just one storm. Instead of being so wasteful I’d much rather get a 1/2 hour of exercise and shovel it. I’m sure snowplows are more efficient except for unique applications like tight spots where they don’t fit or chronically icy areas.
I’ll take a stab at guessing this stupendous number.
We could do the Microsoft Interview trick of estimating how much energy would be needed based on wild guestimating and simple assumptions.
Assuming the Sun drops about 1KW of energy on every sq meter on a nice southern day, but for a snow storm atleast 100W is needed per sq meter to keep the snow clear and only in the areas where it is currently snowing.
Google tells me there are roughly 5M miles of paved roads in the USA, and at a wild guess during the worst snow storms maybe 0.1% of that is covered in snow and needs the heating.
Assume the roads are only 2 lane and 5m wide and 5M miles is about 8M km, the total area would be 40B sq meters. If only 0.1% is heated with 100W/sq m, then we need atleast 4GW of power to keep the roads clear of snow. Of course most roads are wider, and I bet more than 100W is needed/sq m to stay above freezing.
I’ll guess a snow plow uses 10 x the energy of a compact car, so an electric snowplow might need 100KW while plowing a 5m wide track at 10mph. How many plows are needed to cover that area, probably far less than 4G/0.1M or 40K.
Try another tack. Assume a snowplow plows at only 10mph or 16km/hr or about 5 m/s. Assume the plow is 5m wide so 25 sq m/s is cleared using 100KW of energy or 4KJ to clear 1sq m. If the road is cleared every 15mins, then every sq m requires 16KJ/h which is only about 4.5W. Somehow if the road was cleared by self heating, I think it would need far more that, maybe 100x as much.
Any one else have better estimates?
I’ll take a stab at guessing this stupendous number.
We could do the Microsoft Interview trick of estimating how much energy would be needed based on wild guestimating and simple assumptions.
Assuming the Sun drops about 1KW of energy on every sq meter on a nice southern day, but for a snow storm atleast 100W is needed per sq meter to keep the snow clear and only in the areas where it is currently snowing.
Google tells me there are roughly 5M miles of paved roads in the USA, and at a wild guess during the worst snow storms maybe 0.1% of that is covered in snow and needs the heating.
Assume the roads are only 2 lane and 5m wide and 5M miles is about 8M km, the total area would be 40B sq meters. If only 0.1% is heated with 100W/sq m, then we need atleast 4GW of power to keep the roads clear of snow. Of course most roads are wider, and I bet more than 100W is needed/sq m to stay above freezing.
I’ll guess a snow plow uses 10 x the energy of a compact car, so an electric snowplow might need 100KW while plowing a 5m wide track at 10mph. How many plows are needed to cover that area, probably far less than 4G/0.1M or 40K.
Try another tack. Assume a snowplow plows at only 10mph or 16km/hr or about 5 m/s. Assume the plow is 5m wide so 25 sq m/s is cleared using 100KW of energy or 4KJ to clear 1sq m. If the road is cleared every 15mins, then every sq m requires 16KJ/h which is only about 4.5W. Somehow if the road was cleared by self heating, I think it would need far more that, maybe 100x as much.
Any one else have better estimates?
I’ll take a stab at guessing this stupendous number.
We could do the Microsoft Interview trick of estimating how much energy would be needed based on wild guestimating and simple assumptions.
Assuming the Sun drops about 1KW of energy on every sq meter on a nice southern day, but for a snow storm atleast 100W is needed per sq meter to keep the snow clear and only in the areas where it is currently snowing.
Google tells me there are roughly 5M miles of paved roads in the USA, and at a wild guess during the worst snow storms maybe 0.1% of that is covered in snow and needs the heating.
Assume the roads are only 2 lane and 5m wide and 5M miles is about 8M km, the total area would be 40B sq meters. If only 0.1% is heated with 100W/sq m, then we need atleast 4GW of power to keep the roads clear of snow. Of course most roads are wider, and I bet more than 100W is needed/sq m to stay above freezing.
I’ll guess a snow plow uses 10 x the energy of a compact car, so an electric snowplow might need 100KW while plowing a 5m wide track at 10mph. How many plows are needed to cover that area, probably far less than 4G/0.1M or 40K.
Try another tack. Assume a snowplow plows at only 10mph or 16km/hr or about 5 m/s. Assume the plow is 5m wide so 25 sq m/s is cleared using 100KW of energy or 4KJ to clear 1sq m. If the road is cleared every 15mins, then every sq m requires 16KJ/h which is only about 4.5W. Somehow if the road was cleared by self heating, I think it would need far more that, maybe 100x as much.
Any one else have better estimates?
I’ll take a stab at guessing this stupendous number.
We could do the Microsoft Interview trick of estimating how much energy would be needed based on wild guestimating and simple assumptions.
Assuming the Sun drops about 1KW of energy on every sq meter on a nice southern day, but for a snow storm atleast 100W is needed per sq meter to keep the snow clear and only in the areas where it is currently snowing.
Google tells me there are roughly 5M miles of paved roads in the USA, and at a wild guess during the worst snow storms maybe 0.1% of that is covered in snow and needs the heating.
Assume the roads are only 2 lane and 5m wide and 5M miles is about 8M km, the total area would be 40B sq meters. If only 0.1% is heated with 100W/sq m, then we need atleast 4GW of power to keep the roads clear of snow. Of course most roads are wider, and I bet more than 100W is needed/sq m to stay above freezing.
I’ll guess a snow plow uses 10 x the energy of a compact car, so an electric snowplow might need 100KW while plowing a 5m wide track at 10mph. How many plows are needed to cover that area, probably far less than 4G/0.1M or 40K.
Try another tack. Assume a snowplow plows at only 10mph or 16km/hr or about 5 m/s. Assume the plow is 5m wide so 25 sq m/s is cleared using 100KW of energy or 4KJ to clear 1sq m. If the road is cleared every 15mins, then every sq m requires 16KJ/h which is only about 4.5W. Somehow if the road was cleared by self heating, I think it would need far more that, maybe 100x as much.
Any one else have better estimates?
I’ll take a stab at guessing this stupendous number.
We could do the Microsoft Interview trick of estimating how much energy would be needed based on wild guestimating and simple assumptions.
Assuming the Sun drops about 1KW of energy on every sq meter on a nice southern day, but for a snow storm atleast 100W is needed per sq meter to keep the snow clear and only in the areas where it is currently snowing.
Google tells me there are roughly 5M miles of paved roads in the USA, and at a wild guess during the worst snow storms maybe 0.1% of that is covered in snow and needs the heating.
Assume the roads are only 2 lane and 5m wide and 5M miles is about 8M km, the total area would be 40B sq meters. If only 0.1% is heated with 100W/sq m, then we need atleast 4GW of power to keep the roads clear of snow. Of course most roads are wider, and I bet more than 100W is needed/sq m to stay above freezing.
I’ll guess a snow plow uses 10 x the energy of a compact car, so an electric snowplow might need 100KW while plowing a 5m wide track at 10mph. How many plows are needed to cover that area, probably far less than 4G/0.1M or 40K.
Try another tack. Assume a snowplow plows at only 10mph or 16km/hr or about 5 m/s. Assume the plow is 5m wide so 25 sq m/s is cleared using 100KW of energy or 4KJ to clear 1sq m. If the road is cleared every 15mins, then every sq m requires 16KJ/h which is only about 4.5W. Somehow if the road was cleared by self heating, I think it would need far more that, maybe 100x as much.
Any one else have better estimates?
Don’t worry, Global Warming will eliminate snow altogether. Plus, with the diminished coastal land areas, the formerly snow covered mountainous regions will command a high real estate value. Having electrically warmed or even air conditioned roads might not seem so extravagant when there aren’t many roads left above sea level. In fact, we might have roads where snow is artificially generated just so we can remember what it was like.
Don’t worry, Global Warming will eliminate snow altogether. Plus, with the diminished coastal land areas, the formerly snow covered mountainous regions will command a high real estate value. Having electrically warmed or even air conditioned roads might not seem so extravagant when there aren’t many roads left above sea level. In fact, we might have roads where snow is artificially generated just so we can remember what it was like.
Don’t worry, Global Warming will eliminate snow altogether. Plus, with the diminished coastal land areas, the formerly snow covered mountainous regions will command a high real estate value. Having electrically warmed or even air conditioned roads might not seem so extravagant when there aren’t many roads left above sea level. In fact, we might have roads where snow is artificially generated just so we can remember what it was like.
How much energy? Let’s consider, and anyone’s welcome to check my math:
* “able to heat a slab of concrete … from -10 degrees C to 0 degrees C in two hours using 6 watts of power” but did the test slab have any snow on it? If so, how much? Consider that just getting to 0 from below that melts nothing if you stop there. You must now put in the “phase change energy” needed to change solid water (snow) to liquid water, all the time it’s staying at 0 degrees Celsius. Anyone want to calculate many *additional* Watt-hours will that takes?
* “25 centimeters in area” is a square about 2 inches on each side, that’s 4 square inches, how much road is that for your 6 Watts over 2 hours = 12 Watt-Hours? Works out to about 3 Watt-Hours per square *inch* of road to do that 10 degree C temp rise in 2 hours, again *without saying any snow was melted*. OK, how many square inches in one mile of 25-foot wide ( two single lanes ) road? Length [ 5280 feet/mile * 12 inches/foot ] x Width [ 25 feet x 12 inches/foot ] = a little under 20,000,000 square inches. Times 3 Watt-Hours is about 60 MegaWattHours. Double that for two lanes on each side of the road. Add another 60 MWH for a center lane.
* A good sized oil, coal or natural gas fired municipal electrical plant is worth about a Gigawatt (1,000 Megawatts) at full power. That plant would heat about 1000 GW / 60 MWH per mile = About 16 miles of 2-lane roadway in 1 hour, *without necessarily melting any snow*, just warming that 16 miles of it the point where it could *start* melting snow.
* Getting the electricity to the road: A 1 gigawatt transmission line connecting your plant to your 16 miles of two-lane road would be as big as the biggest electrical transmission towers you see anywhere. A Gigawatt is a lot of power, folks.
* “Self-heating” is a deeply misleading misnomer. The research involves engineering electrically conductive roadway materila that can be applied without embedding heating elements because the stuff itself conducts controlled amounts of electricity.
I think I now why this research came out of Texas.
How much energy? Let’s consider, and anyone’s welcome to check my math:
* “able to heat a slab of concrete … from -10 degrees C to 0 degrees C in two hours using 6 watts of power” but did the test slab have any snow on it? If so, how much? Consider that just getting to 0 from below that melts nothing if you stop there. You must now put in the “phase change energy” needed to change solid water (snow) to liquid water, all the time it’s staying at 0 degrees Celsius. Anyone want to calculate many *additional* Watt-hours will that takes?
* “25 centimeters in area” is a square about 2 inches on each side, that’s 4 square inches, how much road is that for your 6 Watts over 2 hours = 12 Watt-Hours? Works out to about 3 Watt-Hours per square *inch* of road to do that 10 degree C temp rise in 2 hours, again *without saying any snow was melted*. OK, how many square inches in one mile of 25-foot wide ( two single lanes ) road? Length [ 5280 feet/mile * 12 inches/foot ] x Width [ 25 feet x 12 inches/foot ] = a little under 20,000,000 square inches. Times 3 Watt-Hours is about 60 MegaWattHours. Double that for two lanes on each side of the road. Add another 60 MWH for a center lane.
* A good sized oil, coal or natural gas fired municipal electrical plant is worth about a Gigawatt (1,000 Megawatts) at full power. That plant would heat about 1000 GW / 60 MWH per mile = About 16 miles of 2-lane roadway in 1 hour, *without necessarily melting any snow*, just warming that 16 miles of it the point where it could *start* melting snow.
* Getting the electricity to the road: A 1 gigawatt transmission line connecting your plant to your 16 miles of two-lane road would be as big as the biggest electrical transmission towers you see anywhere. A Gigawatt is a lot of power, folks.
* “Self-heating” is a deeply misleading misnomer. The research involves engineering electrically conductive roadway materila that can be applied without embedding heating elements because the stuff itself conducts controlled amounts of electricity.
I think I now why this research came out of Texas.
How much energy? Let’s consider, and anyone’s welcome to check my math:
* “able to heat a slab of concrete … from -10 degrees C to 0 degrees C in two hours using 6 watts of power” but did the test slab have any snow on it? If so, how much? Consider that just getting to 0 from below that melts nothing if you stop there. You must now put in the “phase change energy” needed to change solid water (snow) to liquid water, all the time it’s staying at 0 degrees Celsius. Anyone want to calculate many *additional* Watt-hours will that takes?
* “25 centimeters in area” is a square about 2 inches on each side, that’s 4 square inches, how much road is that for your 6 Watts over 2 hours = 12 Watt-Hours? Works out to about 3 Watt-Hours per square *inch* of road to do that 10 degree C temp rise in 2 hours, again *without saying any snow was melted*. OK, how many square inches in one mile of 25-foot wide ( two single lanes ) road? Length [ 5280 feet/mile * 12 inches/foot ] x Width [ 25 feet x 12 inches/foot ] = a little under 20,000,000 square inches. Times 3 Watt-Hours is about 60 MegaWattHours. Double that for two lanes on each side of the road. Add another 60 MWH for a center lane.
* A good sized oil, coal or natural gas fired municipal electrical plant is worth about a Gigawatt (1,000 Megawatts) at full power. That plant would heat about 1000 GW / 60 MWH per mile = About 16 miles of 2-lane roadway in 1 hour, *without necessarily melting any snow*, just warming that 16 miles of it the point where it could *start* melting snow.
* Getting the electricity to the road: A 1 gigawatt transmission line connecting your plant to your 16 miles of two-lane road would be as big as the biggest electrical transmission towers you see anywhere. A Gigawatt is a lot of power, folks.
* “Self-heating” is a deeply misleading misnomer. The research involves engineering electrically conductive roadway materila that can be applied without embedding heating elements because the stuff itself conducts controlled amounts of electricity.
I think I now why this research came out of Texas.
I agree with the previous commentators. A back-of-the envelope calculation, such as Gregor and JJ’s, shows it would take a staggering amount of energy to melt snow from roads, when all this is needed is to move it aside mechanically – the job that a snow plough does very efficiently.
The idea is so obviously a non-starter that it could only come from a state that rarely sees snow.
However, it prompts some further thoughts:
Could the same heating methods be applied to other structures, maybe bridges, buildings, runways, or indoor underfloor heating, where the cost-payoff situation would be different?
Could ‘waste’ heat from power stations be used in CHP system, using low-grade thermal energy directly rather than costly electrical power? Or would it be better to warm homes with this heat and use the oil saved for the snow ploughs?
Could other approaches to melting snow and ice, such as albedo or solar reflectors, be harnessed to use the sun’s energy? Do dark roads resist icing better that light ones (before they are snow covered of course!)? Could cuttings and embankments be utilised to reflect heat onto roads?
Or is it just simpler to drive a fairly simple machine round when it is needed? Probably.
I agree with the previous commentators. A back-of-the envelope calculation, such as Gregor and JJ’s, shows it would take a staggering amount of energy to melt snow from roads, when all this is needed is to move it aside mechanically – the job that a snow plough does very efficiently.
The idea is so obviously a non-starter that it could only come from a state that rarely sees snow.
However, it prompts some further thoughts:
Could the same heating methods be applied to other structures, maybe bridges, buildings, runways, or indoor underfloor heating, where the cost-payoff situation would be different?
Could ‘waste’ heat from power stations be used in CHP system, using low-grade thermal energy directly rather than costly electrical power? Or would it be better to warm homes with this heat and use the oil saved for the snow ploughs?
Could other approaches to melting snow and ice, such as albedo or solar reflectors, be harnessed to use the sun’s energy? Do dark roads resist icing better that light ones (before they are snow covered of course!)? Could cuttings and embankments be utilised to reflect heat onto roads?
Or is it just simpler to drive a fairly simple machine round when it is needed? Probably.
OK, having now read the original New Scientist article, the Texas researchers were indeed looking at specific spots like bridge decks.
Also, tests at the UK’s Transport Research Laboratory (TRL) found overly high power use was a problem for another type of self-heating road trialled in 2007.
‘In a process called interseasonal heat transfer, TRL’s system stored summer heat in water kept in insulated reservoirs. In cold weather, this warm water was pumped through a grid of pipes beneath the road to prevent icing. But the pumps proved too power-hungry. “Ideas like these don’t seem viable for whole roads, but they may work for known cold spots or bridge decks,” Carder says.’
OK, having now read the original New Scientist article, the Texas researchers were indeed looking at specific spots like bridge decks.
Also, tests at the UK’s Transport Research Laboratory (TRL) found overly high power use was a problem for another type of self-heating road trialled in 2007.
‘In a process called interseasonal heat transfer, TRL’s system stored summer heat in water kept in insulated reservoirs. In cold weather, this warm water was pumped through a grid of pipes beneath the road to prevent icing. But the pumps proved too power-hungry. “Ideas like these don’t seem viable for whole roads, but they may work for known cold spots or bridge decks,” Carder says.’
OK, having now read the original New Scientist article, the Texas researchers were indeed looking at specific spots like bridge decks.
Also, tests at the UK’s Transport Research Laboratory (TRL) found overly high power use was a problem for another type of self-heating road trialled in 2007.
‘In a process called interseasonal heat transfer, TRL’s system stored summer heat in water kept in insulated reservoirs. In cold weather, this warm water was pumped through a grid of pipes beneath the road to prevent icing. But the pumps proved too power-hungry. “Ideas like these don’t seem viable for whole roads, but they may work for known cold spots or bridge decks,” Carder says.’
OK, having now read the original New Scientist article, the Texas researchers were indeed looking at specific spots like bridge decks.
Also, tests at the UK’s Transport Research Laboratory (TRL) found overly high power use was a problem for another type of self-heating road trialled in 2007.
‘In a process called interseasonal heat transfer, TRL’s system stored summer heat in water kept in insulated reservoirs. In cold weather, this warm water was pumped through a grid of pipes beneath the road to prevent icing. But the pumps proved too power-hungry. “Ideas like these don’t seem viable for whole roads, but they may work for known cold spots or bridge decks,” Carder says.’
OK, having now read the original New Scientist article, the Texas researchers were indeed looking at specific spots like bridge decks.
Also, tests at the UK’s Transport Research Laboratory (TRL) found overly high power use was a problem for another type of self-heating road trialled in 2007.
‘In a process called interseasonal heat transfer, TRL’s system stored summer heat in water kept in insulated reservoirs. In cold weather, this warm water was pumped through a grid of pipes beneath the road to prevent icing. But the pumps proved too power-hungry. “Ideas like these don’t seem viable for whole roads, but they may work for known cold spots or bridge decks,” Carder says.’
The reason I read this was to protest hot roads in summer when they are not needed. I didn’t even THINK they meant to power the road. Go back to the drawing board. Find a way for the road to solar heat itself during winter in icey places. And cool itself when its hot. That would be great.
Mary Matzek
The reason I read this was to protest hot roads in summer when they are not needed. I didn’t even THINK they meant to power the road. Go back to the drawing board. Find a way for the road to solar heat itself during winter in icey places. And cool itself when its hot. That would be great.
Mary Matzek
The reason I read this was to protest hot roads in summer when they are not needed. I didn’t even THINK they meant to power the road. Go back to the drawing board. Find a way for the road to solar heat itself during winter in icey places. And cool itself when its hot. That would be great.
Mary Matzek
Hi,
The article says “25 centimeters of area” — is that 25 square centimeters (aka 0.387501 sq in) or 25cm x 25cm (96.87519 sq in)?
And it says it took 2 hours to raise that area by 10C — and it used “6 watts of power”. Is that 6Wh total, or 12Wh, or … ?
The pavement was 10cm thick (~4″) which is pretty thin for a road, I think. Was this on/in the ground? And was the ground also frozen to -10C?
If the air temp is -10C, then the water on the surface (from the melted snow) will freeze again, especially if the snow is still falling, and if there is a wind blowing. The surface would have to be at least 1C, I think. At 0C the ice is still a little wet — which is the slipperiest state of ice…
Maybe the folks in Texas are trying to think of ways to sell the rest of us more power (from their windmills)? I think this is a crazy idea — typical for us Americans: throw MORE energy at it!
A good set of full snow tires is all that is needed — it would be cheaper and use a lot less energy, to have the government buy us all a set!
Sincerely, Neil
Hi,
The article says “25 centimeters of area” — is that 25 square centimeters (aka 0.387501 sq in) or 25cm x 25cm (96.87519 sq in)?
And it says it took 2 hours to raise that area by 10C — and it used “6 watts of power”. Is that 6Wh total, or 12Wh, or … ?
The pavement was 10cm thick (~4″) which is pretty thin for a road, I think. Was this on/in the ground? And was the ground also frozen to -10C?
If the air temp is -10C, then the water on the surface (from the melted snow) will freeze again, especially if the snow is still falling, and if there is a wind blowing. The surface would have to be at least 1C, I think. At 0C the ice is still a little wet — which is the slipperiest state of ice…
Maybe the folks in Texas are trying to think of ways to sell the rest of us more power (from their windmills)? I think this is a crazy idea — typical for us Americans: throw MORE energy at it!
A good set of full snow tires is all that is needed — it would be cheaper and use a lot less energy, to have the government buy us all a set!
Sincerely, Neil
Hi,
The article says “25 centimeters of area” — is that 25 square centimeters (aka 0.387501 sq in) or 25cm x 25cm (96.87519 sq in)?
And it says it took 2 hours to raise that area by 10C — and it used “6 watts of power”. Is that 6Wh total, or 12Wh, or … ?
The pavement was 10cm thick (~4″) which is pretty thin for a road, I think. Was this on/in the ground? And was the ground also frozen to -10C?
If the air temp is -10C, then the water on the surface (from the melted snow) will freeze again, especially if the snow is still falling, and if there is a wind blowing. The surface would have to be at least 1C, I think. At 0C the ice is still a little wet — which is the slipperiest state of ice…
Maybe the folks in Texas are trying to think of ways to sell the rest of us more power (from their windmills)? I think this is a crazy idea — typical for us Americans: throw MORE energy at it!
A good set of full snow tires is all that is needed — it would be cheaper and use a lot less energy, to have the government buy us all a set!
Sincerely, Neil
The best system of all would release heat in the winter and store it in the summer. Assuming that the system could run in reverse (i.e. turning heat into electricity), figuring out a way to turn black asphalt roads into power generators – even relatively inefficient power generators – might be a great way to pay for the electricity used in the winter months…or at least make this concept more viable for spot usage.
The best system of all would release heat in the winter and store it in the summer. Assuming that the system could run in reverse (i.e. turning heat into electricity), figuring out a way to turn black asphalt roads into power generators – even relatively inefficient power generators – might be a great way to pay for the electricity used in the winter months…or at least make this concept more viable for spot usage.
TundraHQ – you seem to be describing the interseasonal heat transfer system that TRL trialled, and found would consume too much power.
If you can come up with an economic and effective way to convert low grade thermal energy into high grade electrical energy, you will have solved the world’s energy problems. All you need to do is overcome the second law of thermodynamics.
TundraHQ – you seem to be describing the interseasonal heat transfer system that TRL trialled, and found would consume too much power.
If you can come up with an economic and effective way to convert low grade thermal energy into high grade electrical energy, you will have solved the world’s energy problems. All you need to do is overcome the second law of thermodynamics.
TundraHQ – you seem to be describing the interseasonal heat transfer system that TRL trialled, and found would consume too much power.
If you can come up with an economic and effective way to convert low grade thermal energy into high grade electrical energy, you will have solved the world’s energy problems. All you need to do is overcome the second law of thermodynamics.
@TundraHQ
As John said its all about the energy density. The solar power hitting the road or any surface is just too diffused and needs to be massively concentrated. Only when the energy is still in its solar form can it be easily concentrated and turned into power for example SES Suncatcher, but even that is not cheap enough.
I think the best you can do with low grade heat is to use it as a thermal jacket for high grade heat storage as an extra wrapper, not really sure if even that is worth the trouble.
@John link to TRL if you will.
@TundraHQ
As John said its all about the energy density. The solar power hitting the road or any surface is just too diffused and needs to be massively concentrated. Only when the energy is still in its solar form can it be easily concentrated and turned into power for example SES Suncatcher, but even that is not cheap enough.
I think the best you can do with low grade heat is to use it as a thermal jacket for high grade heat storage as an extra wrapper, not really sure if even that is worth the trouble.
@John link to TRL if you will.
The New Scientist article is cited as the source at the end of the Gas 2.0 piece. Here’s the link: http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20427366.600-radiator-roads-too-hot-for-ic%20e-to-handle.html
The report on the TRL work is at: http://www.trl.co.uk/online_store/reports_publications/trl_reports/cat_ground_engineering/report_performance_of_an_interseasonal_heat_transfer_facility_for_collection_storage_and_re-use_of_solar_heat_from_the_road_surface.htm
The New Scientist article is cited as the source at the end of the Gas 2.0 piece. Here’s the link: http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20427366.600-radiator-roads-too-hot-for-ic%20e-to-handle.html
The report on the TRL work is at: http://www.trl.co.uk/online_store/reports_publications/trl_reports/cat_ground_engineering/report_performance_of_an_interseasonal_heat_transfer_facility_for_collection_storage_and_re-use_of_solar_heat_from_the_road_surface.htm
The New Scientist article is cited as the source at the end of the Gas 2.0 piece. Here’s the link: http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20427366.600-radiator-roads-too-hot-for-ic%20e-to-handle.html
The report on the TRL work is at: http://www.trl.co.uk/online_store/reports_publications/trl_reports/cat_ground_engineering/report_performance_of_an_interseasonal_heat_transfer_facility_for_collection_storage_and_re-use_of_solar_heat_from_the_road_surface.htm
The New Scientist article is cited as the source at the end of the Gas 2.0 piece. Here’s the link: http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20427366.600-radiator-roads-too-hot-for-ic%20e-to-handle.html
The report on the TRL work is at: http://www.trl.co.uk/online_store/reports_publications/trl_reports/cat_ground_engineering/report_performance_of_an_interseasonal_heat_transfer_facility_for_collection_storage_and_re-use_of_solar_heat_from_the_road_surface.htm
The New Scientist article is cited as the source at the end of the Gas 2.0 piece. Here’s the link: http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20427366.600-radiator-roads-too-hot-for-ic%20e-to-handle.html
The report on the TRL work is at: http://www.trl.co.uk/online_store/reports_publications/trl_reports/cat_ground_engineering/report_performance_of_an_interseasonal_heat_transfer_facility_for_collection_storage_and_re-use_of_solar_heat_from_the_road_surface.htm
The research publication on which this is based is ‘A feasibility study of self-heating concrete utilizing carbon nanofiber heating elements’ (Christiana Chang et al 2009 Smart Mater. Struct. 18 127001 (5pp) doi: 10.1088/0964-1726/18/12/127001) at http://www.iop.org/EJ/abstract/0964-1726/18/12/127001/
The research publication on which this is based is ‘A feasibility study of self-heating concrete utilizing carbon nanofiber heating elements’ (Christiana Chang et al 2009 Smart Mater. Struct. 18 127001 (5pp) doi: 10.1088/0964-1726/18/12/127001) at http://www.iop.org/EJ/abstract/0964-1726/18/12/127001/
The government should think a new way on how to solve this problem, they spending a lot of taxpayer’s money and it should be in a positive way.
The government should think a new way on how to solve this problem, they spending a lot of taxpayer’s money and it should be in a positive way.
The government should think a new way on how to solve this problem, they spending a lot of taxpayer’s money and it should be in a positive way.
The government should think a new way on how to solve this problem, they spending a lot of taxpayer’s money and it should be in a positive way.