Comments on: Electric Car Batteries May Cost Too Much For Energy Grid Storage http://gas2.org/2009/11/30/electric-car-batteries-may-cost-too-much-for-energy-grid-storage/ What is the future of fuel? What's new? What's next? Since 2007, Gas 2 has covered a rapidly changing world coming to terms with its oil addiction. Mon, 13 Feb 2012 00:40:40 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: John http://gas2.org/2009/11/30/electric-car-batteries-may-cost-too-much-for-energy-grid-storage/#comment-12967 John Tue, 01 Dec 2009 13:25:20 +0000 http://gas2.org/?p=4206#comment-12967 The reason that electric cars are relevant to using wind and solar to generate electricity is NOT as an energy storage mechanism, but as a source of more flexible demand for electricity. You would not want to use the electricity in your car battery to send power back to the grid, but you might want to have your battery charged using the cheapest available electricity (and electricity would be cheapest when the wind is blowing strongest or the sun is brightest). The reason that electric cars are relevant to using wind and solar to generate electricity is NOT as an energy storage mechanism, but as a source of more flexible demand for electricity. You would not want to use the electricity in your car battery to send power back to the grid, but you might want to have your battery charged using the cheapest available electricity (and electricity would be cheapest when the wind is blowing strongest or the sun is brightest).

]]> By: John http://gas2.org/2009/11/30/electric-car-batteries-may-cost-too-much-for-energy-grid-storage/#comment-36738 John Tue, 01 Dec 2009 13:25:00 +0000 http://gas2.org/?p=4206#comment-36738 The reason that electric cars are relevant to using wind and solar to generate electricity is NOT as an energy storage mechanism, but as a source of more flexible demand for electricity. You would not want to use the electricity in your car battery to send power back to the grid, but you might want to have your battery charged using the cheapest available electricity (and electricity would be cheapest when the wind is blowing strongest or the sun is brightest). The reason that electric cars are relevant to using wind and solar to generate electricity is NOT as an energy storage mechanism, but as a source of more flexible demand for electricity. You would not want to use the electricity in your car battery to send power back to the grid, but you might want to have your battery charged using the cheapest available electricity (and electricity would be cheapest when the wind is blowing strongest or the sun is brightest).

]]> By: MichaelBryant http://gas2.org/2009/11/30/electric-car-batteries-may-cost-too-much-for-energy-grid-storage/#comment-12966 MichaelBryant Tue, 01 Dec 2009 12:52:56 +0000 http://gas2.org/?p=4206#comment-12966 when I invent compressed air combine cycle engines compressed air storage will become more practical. when I invent compressed air combine cycle engines compressed air storage will become more practical.

]]> By: MichaelBryant http://gas2.org/2009/11/30/electric-car-batteries-may-cost-too-much-for-energy-grid-storage/#comment-36737 MichaelBryant Tue, 01 Dec 2009 12:52:00 +0000 http://gas2.org/?p=4206#comment-36737 when I invent compressed air combine cycle engines compressed air storage will become more practical. when I invent compressed air combine cycle engines compressed air storage will become more practical.

]]> By: Chris O http://gas2.org/2009/11/30/electric-car-batteries-may-cost-too-much-for-energy-grid-storage/#comment-12965 Chris O Tue, 01 Dec 2009 09:00:18 +0000 http://gas2.org/?p=4206#comment-12965 Quote: "Unfortunately, this analysis does not compare the potential storage capacity of say, 1000 small electric car batteries in 1000 separate cars in terms of cost compared to energy. I mean, since the batteries will be there anyway, might as well use them if needed, right?" Wrong! The number of discharge cycles batteries can do before wearing out is limited. This means tapping into car batteries for grid purposes isn't free use of something that is already paid for but you are actually wearing the batteries out. So a mark-up for battery wear is in order when tapping into car based energy storage capacity. Quote: “Unfortunately, this analysis does not compare the potential storage capacity of say, 1000 small electric car batteries in 1000 separate cars in terms of cost compared to energy. I mean, since the batteries will be there anyway, might as well use them if needed, right?” Wrong! The number of discharge cycles batteries can do before wearing out is limited. This means tapping into car batteries for grid purposes isn’t free use of something that is already paid for but you are actually wearing the batteries out. So a mark-up for battery wear is in order when tapping into car based energy storage capacity.

]]> By: Chris O http://gas2.org/2009/11/30/electric-car-batteries-may-cost-too-much-for-energy-grid-storage/#comment-36736 Chris O Tue, 01 Dec 2009 09:00:00 +0000 http://gas2.org/?p=4206#comment-36736 Quote: "Unfortunately, this analysis does not compare the potential storage capacity of say, 1000 small electric car batteries in 1000 separate cars in terms of cost compared to energy. I mean, since the batteries will be there anyway, might as well use them if needed, right?" Wrong! The number of discharge cycles batteries can do before wearing out is limited. This means tapping into car batteries for grid purposes isn't free use of something that is already paid for but you are actually wearing the batteries out. So a mark-up for battery wear is in order when tapping into car based energy storage capacity. Quote: “Unfortunately, this analysis does not compare the potential storage capacity of say, 1000 small electric car batteries in 1000 separate cars in terms of cost compared to energy. I mean, since the batteries will be there anyway, might as well use them if needed, right?” Wrong! The number of discharge cycles batteries can do before wearing out is limited. This means tapping into car batteries for grid purposes isn’t free use of something that is already paid for but you are actually wearing the batteries out. So a mark-up for battery wear is in order when tapping into car based energy storage capacity.

]]> By: Charles R. Toca http://gas2.org/2009/11/30/electric-car-batteries-may-cost-too-much-for-energy-grid-storage/#comment-12964 Charles R. Toca Mon, 30 Nov 2009 20:04:21 +0000 http://gas2.org/?p=4206#comment-12964 To clarify, current compressed air systems require natural gas turbines. They are actually more of an enhanced natural gas generation facility than an energy storage facility. An additional long term electric storage system is the VRB flow battery, which was installed on a Japanese wind farm several years ago. The 4 MW system cycled over 260,000 times in 3 years. A 200 kW system has been in place in Utah for over 5 years. The VRB system lasts for decades, has not emissions or toxic disposal issues, and can store hours of electricity - like pumped hydro - but can be installed anywhere. More information is available at www.Utility-Savings.com. To clarify, current compressed air systems require natural gas turbines. They are actually more of an enhanced natural gas generation facility than an energy storage facility.

An additional long term electric storage system is the VRB flow battery, which was installed on a Japanese wind farm several years ago. The 4 MW system cycled over 260,000 times in 3 years. A 200 kW system has been in place in Utah for over 5 years. The VRB system lasts for decades, has not emissions or toxic disposal issues, and can store hours of electricity – like pumped hydro – but can be installed anywhere. More information is available at http://www.Utility-Savings.com.

]]> By: Charles R. Toca http://gas2.org/2009/11/30/electric-car-batteries-may-cost-too-much-for-energy-grid-storage/#comment-36735 Charles R. Toca Mon, 30 Nov 2009 20:04:00 +0000 http://gas2.org/?p=4206#comment-36735 To clarify, current compressed air systems require natural gas turbines. They are actually more of an enhanced natural gas generation facility than an energy storage facility. An additional long term electric storage system is the VRB flow battery, which was installed on a Japanese wind farm several years ago. The 4 MW system cycled over 260,000 times in 3 years. A 200 kW system has been in place in Utah for over 5 years. The VRB system lasts for decades, has not emissions or toxic disposal issues, and can store hours of electricity - like pumped hydro - but can be installed anywhere. More information is available at www.Utility-Savings.com. To clarify, current compressed air systems require natural gas turbines. They are actually more of an enhanced natural gas generation facility than an energy storage facility.

An additional long term electric storage system is the VRB flow battery, which was installed on a Japanese wind farm several years ago. The 4 MW system cycled over 260,000 times in 3 years. A 200 kW system has been in place in Utah for over 5 years. The VRB system lasts for decades, has not emissions or toxic disposal issues, and can store hours of electricity – like pumped hydro – but can be installed anywhere. More information is available at http://www.Utility-Savings.com.

]]> By: dustin slade http://gas2.org/2009/11/30/electric-car-batteries-may-cost-too-much-for-energy-grid-storage/#comment-12963 dustin slade Mon, 30 Nov 2009 19:27:28 +0000 http://gas2.org/?p=4206#comment-12963 Nikola Tesla solved these problems 100 years ago. Wireless transmission of power. In 1901, he was building Wardenclyffe Tower. 'It was intended for commercial trans-Atlantic wireless telephony, broadcasting, and to demonstrate the transmission of power without interconnecting wires. The project was initially backed by the wealthy J. P. Morgan. After learning that the power consumption could not be metered and Morgan, who could not foresee any financial gain from providing free electricity to everyone, balked.' The ability to control and make money are the downfalls of the grid. Nikola Tesla solved these problems 100 years ago. Wireless transmission of power. In 1901, he was building Wardenclyffe Tower. ‘It was intended for commercial trans-Atlantic wireless telephony, broadcasting, and to demonstrate the transmission of power without interconnecting wires. The project was initially backed by the wealthy J. P. Morgan. After learning that the power consumption could not be metered and Morgan, who could not foresee any financial gain from providing free electricity to everyone, balked.’ The ability to control and make money are the downfalls of the grid.

]]> By: dustin slade http://gas2.org/2009/11/30/electric-car-batteries-may-cost-too-much-for-energy-grid-storage/#comment-36734 dustin slade Mon, 30 Nov 2009 19:27:00 +0000 http://gas2.org/?p=4206#comment-36734 Nikola Tesla solved these problems 100 years ago. Wireless transmission of power. In 1901, he was building Wardenclyffe Tower. 'It was intended for commercial trans-Atlantic wireless telephony, broadcasting, and to demonstrate the transmission of power without interconnecting wires. The project was initially backed by the wealthy J. P. Morgan. After learning that the power consumption could not be metered and Morgan, who could not foresee any financial gain from providing free electricity to everyone, balked.' The ability to control and make money are the downfalls of the grid. Nikola Tesla solved these problems 100 years ago. Wireless transmission of power. In 1901, he was building Wardenclyffe Tower. ‘It was intended for commercial trans-Atlantic wireless telephony, broadcasting, and to demonstrate the transmission of power without interconnecting wires. The project was initially backed by the wealthy J. P. Morgan. After learning that the power consumption could not be metered and Morgan, who could not foresee any financial gain from providing free electricity to everyone, balked.’ The ability to control and make money are the downfalls of the grid.

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