Infrastructure
The vehicles, developed and sold by existing manufacturers, will be designed to allow removable, rechargeable batteries with a range of approximately 100 miles. Network operators will install private in-home and public charging stations as well as charge spots in public locations to allow customers to recharge their batteries between short trips and commutes.
To extend electric vehicles range to exceed the 100 mile battery range, battery switching stations will be installed along highways.
Service contract advantages to consumers
From the customers perspective it eliminates the up-front cost of the battery. This reduces the cost of electric cars. It lowers the risk of transitioning from gas cars to electric cars. It facilitates upgrades in a fast improving technology. It overcomes range and convenience shortcomings of previous iterations of electric cars. A switchable battery eliminates the risk of purchasing a car whose battery life is shorter than the life of the vehicle.
Advantages to industry
From the perspective of the overall market for electric cars, switchable batteries would have the advantage of allowing all parties to focus on and compete within their core competencies:
- Car manufacturers can focus on designing and manufacturing cars with electric drivetrains without sourcing, producing, or insuring built-in battery packs.
- Battery manufacturers can compete across the variety of battery designs and chemistries, which encourages rapid improvement in battery technology and allows advanced batteries to reach consumers more quickly.
- And network operators would offer electric car drivers pay-per-mile service contracts that finance the cost of the battery, the charging infrastructure, and the charging electricity.
You tube demo from Better Place
Via UC Berkeley Center for Entrepreneurship and Technology
Related stories:
Portland Lands Major Upgrade to Electric Vehicle Infrastructure
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About Susan Kraemer
Price is an important factor. In the long run electric cars will save the driver much more money but most people look at the up front benefits first.
Price is an important factor. In the long run electric cars will save the driver much more money but most people look at the up front benefits first.
People say we should be happy that electric cars are competitive with ICE driven cars and buy them. Let the manufacturers recoup their upfront costs quickly and make the investors happy.
I will buy one when I get the benefit.
Various points to consider:
Electric cars should be far more simple that ICE types. Consequently cheaper
The electronics for variable speed drives are nothing new as industry has used them extensively for years.
The replacement for the petrol stations (meaning charging points and power generation) can be done.
Fuel or energy source for the new power plants required to support electric cars – imported or local gas/oil/coal/solar – what will it be?
Building up the electric grids to handle the additional load (replacing petrol stations) is a big deal – otherwise your neighbors may well bring down the neighborhood transformer/distribution.
Quick charging means massive delivery over a short time when done for many cars – the delivery system has to be ready.
People say we should be happy that electric cars are competitive with ICE driven cars and buy them. Let the manufacturers recoup their upfront costs quickly and make the investors happy.
I will buy one when I get the benefit.
Various points to consider:
Electric cars should be far more simple that ICE types. Consequently cheaper
The electronics for variable speed drives are nothing new as industry has used them extensively for years.
The replacement for the petrol stations (meaning charging points and power generation) can be done.
Fuel or energy source for the new power plants required to support electric cars – imported or local gas/oil/coal/solar – what will it be?
Building up the electric grids to handle the additional load (replacing petrol stations) is a big deal – otherwise your neighbors may well bring down the neighborhood transformer/distribution.
Quick charging means massive delivery over a short time when done for many cars – the delivery system has to be ready.
At a local green technology expo, I asked asked a dealer if a particular EV had a battery that was easy to replace or swap out. He instantly went into attack mode, proclaiming how you’d never need to touch the battery “for the life of the car”. So I guess that means that when the battery dies, the car has ended its life.
At a local green technology expo, I asked asked a dealer if a particular EV had a battery that was easy to replace or swap out. He instantly went into attack mode, proclaiming how you’d never need to touch the battery “for the life of the car”. So I guess that means that when the battery dies, the car has ended its life.
What ever the design, the newer cars must be able to do the things we take for granted:
What about hills??? how does this factor into the equation.
Snow, this will drag the car down and less mileage.
Heaters in the winter, AC in the summer.
can this cars pass other vehicles???
Entering into traffic, sluggish moving ??? put that into the equation ???
These questions haven’t appeared, much less been answered, I know this is a new frontier, but you can’t go into a dark room and not stub your toe.
Thank You.
The biggest problems are always the same. Electricity generation overall causes more pollution than cars. So far, little has been really done to address this. Solar and wind will only replace the extra electricity needed. If the Obama statement about ‘clean coal’ is any indication, the status quo will be preserved, leaving most of our energy coming from one of the least efficient and dirtiest sources. These issues are either ignored or confused, like the deliberate confusing of ‘energy’ and oil. Oil is NOT an energy cost, oil is TRANSPORTATION cost, unless you actually have fuel oil heat.
The biggest problems are always the same. Electricity generation overall causes more pollution than cars. So far, little has been really done to address this. Solar and wind will only replace the extra electricity needed. If the Obama statement about ‘clean coal’ is any indication, the status quo will be preserved, leaving most of our energy coming from one of the least efficient and dirtiest sources. These issues are either ignored or confused, like the deliberate confusing of ‘energy’ and oil. Oil is NOT an energy cost, oil is TRANSPORTATION cost, unless you actually have fuel oil heat.
The biggest problems are always the same. Electricity generation overall causes more pollution than cars. So far, little has been really done to address this. Solar and wind will only replace the extra electricity needed. If the Obama statement about ‘clean coal’ is any indication, the status quo will be preserved, leaving most of our energy coming from one of the least efficient and dirtiest sources. These issues are either ignored or confused, like the deliberate confusing of ‘energy’ and oil. Oil is NOT an energy cost, oil is TRANSPORTATION cost, unless you actually have fuel oil heat.
Randy@ “can this cars pass other vehicles???
Entering into traffic, sluggish moving ???”
Electric cars actually have more torque than gas cars, so passing cars, going up hills and getting through snow won’t drag them down – look at this video for example:
http://gas2.org/2009/01/05/electric-car-plows-4-feet-of-snow/
You are thinking of NEVs, those speed-limited golf carty EVs…
Randy@ “can this cars pass other vehicles???
Entering into traffic, sluggish moving ???”
Electric cars actually have more torque than gas cars, so passing cars, going up hills and getting through snow won’t drag them down – look at this video for example:
http://gas2.org/2009/01/05/electric-car-plows-4-feet-of-snow/
You are thinking of NEVs, those speed-limited golf carty EVs…
Susan, The big fallacy in your argument is that all we have to do to stop importing oil from enemies is to open the production of oil from our own reserves, which are now the largest in the world. We could be producing gasoline to retail for less than 75 cents per gallon and putting many people to work. The myth of global warming is now being attacked by approximately 30,000 scientists, over 9000 of whom have PhDs in the weather sciences. They are debunking the Al Gore cabal which seems to only allow agreement. It is only when none of the costs of the electric vehicles are covered with taxpayer funds that they can be considered to have equal costs. The inclusions of government rebates to buy and use these vehicles only shows that they are not competitive in real terms. Then too we have the reality that most of the internal combustion engines used for current vehicles are less polluting that the large electric producers. Of course this could change if we could get over our unreasonable fear of nuclear energy power. The problem here is the fascist government that is trying to force us into its preferred way which is based on false or no science.
Susan, The big fallacy in your argument is that all we have to do to stop importing oil from enemies is to open the production of oil from our own reserves, which are now the largest in the world. We could be producing gasoline to retail for less than 75 cents per gallon and putting many people to work. The myth of global warming is now being attacked by approximately 30,000 scientists, over 9000 of whom have PhDs in the weather sciences. They are debunking the Al Gore cabal which seems to only allow agreement. It is only when none of the costs of the electric vehicles are covered with taxpayer funds that they can be considered to have equal costs. The inclusions of government rebates to buy and use these vehicles only shows that they are not competitive in real terms. Then too we have the reality that most of the internal combustion engines used for current vehicles are less polluting that the large electric producers. Of course this could change if we could get over our unreasonable fear of nuclear energy power. The problem here is the fascist government that is trying to force us into its preferred way which is based on false or no science.
Susan, The big fallacy in your argument is that all we have to do to stop importing oil from enemies is to open the production of oil from our own reserves, which are now the largest in the world. We could be producing gasoline to retail for less than 75 cents per gallon and putting many people to work. The myth of global warming is now being attacked by approximately 30,000 scientists, over 9000 of whom have PhDs in the weather sciences. They are debunking the Al Gore cabal which seems to only allow agreement. It is only when none of the costs of the electric vehicles are covered with taxpayer funds that they can be considered to have equal costs. The inclusions of government rebates to buy and use these vehicles only shows that they are not competitive in real terms. Then too we have the reality that most of the internal combustion engines used for current vehicles are less polluting that the large electric producers. Of course this could change if we could get over our unreasonable fear of nuclear energy power. The problem here is the fascist government that is trying to force us into its preferred way which is based on false or no science.
A number of years back, I saw a reference to a bus company that used swappable battery packs. I think it was in LA, but can’t find any reference on the intertubes…
Seems like a concept that’s come around again. Can it be done affordably, though? That’s the question…
A number of years back, I saw a reference to a bus company that used swappable battery packs. I think it was in LA, but can’t find any reference on the intertubes…
Seems like a concept that’s come around again. Can it be done affordably, though? That’s the question…
A number of years back, I saw a reference to a bus company that used swappable battery packs. I think it was in LA, but can’t find any reference on the intertubes…
Seems like a concept that’s come around again. Can it be done affordably, though? That’s the question…
“Can it be done affordably, though? That’s the question…”
Yeah, affordability versus speed to market. It seems that most EVs will not use swappable batteries: iMiEV, Volt, etc but it is what’s slowing them – worrying about warranties etc
“Can it be done affordably, though? That’s the question…”
Yeah, affordability versus speed to market. It seems that most EVs will not use swappable batteries: iMiEV, Volt, etc but it is what’s slowing them – worrying about warranties etc
“Can it be done affordably, though? That’s the question…”
Yeah, affordability versus speed to market. It seems that most EVs will not use swappable batteries: iMiEV, Volt, etc but it is what’s slowing them – worrying about warranties etc
Swapping the entire vehicle sounds easier?
Swapping the entire vehicle sounds easier?
Getting back to the subject of the article…
I have to say that the study and this article makes some pretty big assumptions (as many studies do), and ignores some pretty significant factors.
First of all, while leasing battery packs seems like a good solution in theory, it does present a whole host of problems. Dispensing energy through charging stations is one thing, since it is fairly simple in this day and age to keep track of. But keeping track of many different batteries across one country made by different manufacturers across the world, dispensed by many different companies and controlled by….whom? That’s what it really comes down to. He who controls the energy holds the power (no pun intended). And whether it is gasoline, natural gas, electricity, oil or coal, where there is power there are vultures. We’ll just leave it at that.
Secondly, the study seems to ignore the fact that the leasing companies will be in business to make money, same as the oil industry. And if they are given the leverage to do so, they will likely exploit any advantage they have to control the price of the energy they are dispensing. Companies don’t just swallow up expenses, they pass them on to the customer and then expect to make a profit on top of that. If you’ve ever sat down and calculated how much you’ve paid the cell phone company over the last 10 years just to make phone calls and send text messages wherever you happen to be, you realize how they can be “giving away” free phones (in my case that would add up to about $10,000). What are they charging so much for? The infrastructure, plus profit. Scale that up to leasing energy modules (batteries) for your vehicle, and you can guess what you’re really going to pay to have the convenience to get anywhere you want to go in your electric vehicle.
Lastly, Charging by the mile opens up a whole new can of worms. Suddenly the metric of distance becomes the commodity, not the energy needed to get you that distance, and the operatives and gadgets needed to keep everyone honest become the pivot point. Suddenly if I go over my mileage limit, I’m going to start paying through the nose just to get to work? I don’t know about you, but I don’t want to go there.
While I do believe that battery pack leasing will give a boost to the electric car industry, it does not answer the individual economic question: can I afford this? Using the cell phone plan model and comparing that to a vehicle component that is a thousand times bigger and more complex, and that holds your life (and your family’s) in it’s “hands,” starts to get scary.
Looking at history, you have to acknowledge that leasing is not the end-all. On the micro-economic level, while leasing fills an immediate need, it will never be a smart move for the long-term. I believe we will find that many people would rather buy and even make payments on their battery pack than lease the lifeblood of their vehicle on the whims of a for-profit corporation or government regulator (whoever controls them).
You can talk all you want about whether this will save the environment or not, but it always comes down to economics. From a micro-economic standpoint: will it save me money? From a macro-economic standpoint, will it improve the national economy? This latest surge in the electric vehicle sector has been driven by macro-economic factors, but the longevity of the movement will be dependent on the response of individual and the family. And you can bet that the companies that will suffer from this movement will not just roll over and play dead.
Getting back to the subject of the article…
I have to say that the study and this article makes some pretty big assumptions (as many studies do), and ignores some pretty significant factors.
First of all, while leasing battery packs seems like a good solution in theory, it does present a whole host of problems. Dispensing energy through charging stations is one thing, since it is fairly simple in this day and age to keep track of. But keeping track of many different batteries across one country made by different manufacturers across the world, dispensed by many different companies and controlled by….whom? That’s what it really comes down to. He who controls the energy holds the power (no pun intended). And whether it is gasoline, natural gas, electricity, oil or coal, where there is power there are vultures. We’ll just leave it at that.
Secondly, the study seems to ignore the fact that the leasing companies will be in business to make money, same as the oil industry. And if they are given the leverage to do so, they will likely exploit any advantage they have to control the price of the energy they are dispensing. Companies don’t just swallow up expenses, they pass them on to the customer and then expect to make a profit on top of that. If you’ve ever sat down and calculated how much you’ve paid the cell phone company over the last 10 years just to make phone calls and send text messages wherever you happen to be, you realize how they can be “giving away” free phones (in my case that would add up to about $10,000). What are they charging so much for? The infrastructure, plus profit. Scale that up to leasing energy modules (batteries) for your vehicle, and you can guess what you’re really going to pay to have the convenience to get anywhere you want to go in your electric vehicle.
Lastly, Charging by the mile opens up a whole new can of worms. Suddenly the metric of distance becomes the commodity, not the energy needed to get you that distance, and the operatives and gadgets needed to keep everyone honest become the pivot point. Suddenly if I go over my mileage limit, I’m going to start paying through the nose just to get to work? I don’t know about you, but I don’t want to go there.
While I do believe that battery pack leasing will give a boost to the electric car industry, it does not answer the individual economic question: can I afford this? Using the cell phone plan model and comparing that to a vehicle component that is a thousand times bigger and more complex, and that holds your life (and your family’s) in it’s “hands,” starts to get scary.
Looking at history, you have to acknowledge that leasing is not the end-all. On the micro-economic level, while leasing fills an immediate need, it will never be a smart move for the long-term. I believe we will find that many people would rather buy and even make payments on their battery pack than lease the lifeblood of their vehicle on the whims of a for-profit corporation or government regulator (whoever controls them).
You can talk all you want about whether this will save the environment or not, but it always comes down to economics. From a micro-economic standpoint: will it save me money? From a macro-economic standpoint, will it improve the national economy? This latest surge in the electric vehicle sector has been driven by macro-economic factors, but the longevity of the movement will be dependent on the response of individual and the family. And you can bet that the companies that will suffer from this movement will not just roll over and play dead.
Getting back to the subject of the article…
I have to say that the study and this article makes some pretty big assumptions (as many studies do), and ignores some pretty significant factors.
First of all, while leasing battery packs seems like a good solution in theory, it does present a whole host of problems. Dispensing energy through charging stations is one thing, since it is fairly simple in this day and age to keep track of. But keeping track of many different batteries across one country made by different manufacturers across the world, dispensed by many different companies and controlled by….whom? That’s what it really comes down to. He who controls the energy holds the power (no pun intended). And whether it is gasoline, natural gas, electricity, oil or coal, where there is power there are vultures. We’ll just leave it at that.
Secondly, the study seems to ignore the fact that the leasing companies will be in business to make money, same as the oil industry. And if they are given the leverage to do so, they will likely exploit any advantage they have to control the price of the energy they are dispensing. Companies don’t just swallow up expenses, they pass them on to the customer and then expect to make a profit on top of that. If you’ve ever sat down and calculated how much you’ve paid the cell phone company over the last 10 years just to make phone calls and send text messages wherever you happen to be, you realize how they can be “giving away” free phones (in my case that would add up to about $10,000). What are they charging so much for? The infrastructure, plus profit. Scale that up to leasing energy modules (batteries) for your vehicle, and you can guess what you’re really going to pay to have the convenience to get anywhere you want to go in your electric vehicle.
Lastly, Charging by the mile opens up a whole new can of worms. Suddenly the metric of distance becomes the commodity, not the energy needed to get you that distance, and the operatives and gadgets needed to keep everyone honest become the pivot point. Suddenly if I go over my mileage limit, I’m going to start paying through the nose just to get to work? I don’t know about you, but I don’t want to go there.
While I do believe that battery pack leasing will give a boost to the electric car industry, it does not answer the individual economic question: can I afford this? Using the cell phone plan model and comparing that to a vehicle component that is a thousand times bigger and more complex, and that holds your life (and your family’s) in it’s “hands,” starts to get scary.
Looking at history, you have to acknowledge that leasing is not the end-all. On the micro-economic level, while leasing fills an immediate need, it will never be a smart move for the long-term. I believe we will find that many people would rather buy and even make payments on their battery pack than lease the lifeblood of their vehicle on the whims of a for-profit corporation or government regulator (whoever controls them).
You can talk all you want about whether this will save the environment or not, but it always comes down to economics. From a micro-economic standpoint: will it save me money? From a macro-economic standpoint, will it improve the national economy? This latest surge in the electric vehicle sector has been driven by macro-economic factors, but the longevity of the movement will be dependent on the response of individual and the family. And you can bet that the companies that will suffer from this movement will not just roll over and play dead.
I have to say that the study and this article makes some pretty big assumptions (as many studies do), and ignores some pretty significant factors.
First of all, while leasing battery packs seems like a good solution in theory, it does present a whole host of problems. Dispensing energy through charging stations is one thing, since it is fairly simple in this day and age to keep track of. But keeping track of many different batteries across one country made by different manufacturers across the world, dispensed by many different companies and controlled by….whom? That’s what it really comes down to. He who controls the energy holds the power (no pun intended). And whether it is gasoline, natural gas, electricity, oil or coal, where there is power there are vultures. We’ll just leave it at that.
Secondly, the study seems to ignore the fact that the leasing companies will be in business to make money, same as the oil industry. And if they are given the leverage to do so, they will likely exploit any advantage they have to control the price of the energy they are dispensing. Companies don’t just swallow up expenses, they pass them on to the customer and then expect to make a profit on top of that. If you’ve ever sat down and calculated how much you’ve paid the cell phone company over the last 10 years just to make phone calls and send text messages wherever you happen to be, you realize how they can be “giving away” free phones (in my case that would add up to about $10,000). What are they charging so much for? The infrastructure, plus profit. Scale that up to leasing energy modules (batteries) for your vehicle, and you can guess what you’re really going to pay to have the convenience to get anywhere you want to go in your electric vehicle.
Lastly, Charging by the mile opens up a whole new can of worms. Suddenly the metric of distance becomes the commodity, not the energy needed to get you that distance, and the operatives and gadgets needed to keep everyone honest become the pivot point. Suddenly if I go over my mileage limit, I’m going to start paying through the nose just to get to work? I don’t know about you, but I don’t want to go there.
While I do believe that battery pack leasing will give a boost to the electric car industry, it does not answer the individual economic question: can I afford this? Using the cell phone plan model and comparing that to a vehicle component that is a thousand times bigger and more complex, and that holds your life (and your family’s) in it’s “hands,” starts to get scary.
Looking at history, you have to acknowledge that leasing is not the end-all. On the micro-economic level, while leasing fills an immediate need, it will never be a smart move for the long-term. I believe we will find that many people would rather buy and even make payments on their battery pack than lease the lifeblood of their vehicle on the whims of a for-profit corporation or government regulator (whoever controls them).
Finally, you can talk all you want about whether this will save the environment or not, but it always comes down to economics. From a micro-economic standpoint: will it save me money? From a macro-economic standpoint, will it improve the national economy? This latest surge in the electric vehicle sector has been driven by macro-economic factors (not environmental issues), but the longevity of the movement will be dependent on the response of individual and the family. And you can bet that the companies that will lose business from this movement will not just roll over and play dead either.
I have to say that the study and this article makes some pretty big assumptions (as many studies do), and ignores some pretty significant factors.
First of all, while leasing battery packs seems like a good solution in theory, it does present a whole host of problems. Dispensing energy through charging stations is one thing, since it is fairly simple in this day and age to keep track of. But keeping track of many different batteries across one country made by different manufacturers across the world, dispensed by many different companies and controlled by….whom? That’s what it really comes down to. He who controls the energy holds the power (no pun intended). And whether it is gasoline, natural gas, electricity, oil or coal, where there is power there are vultures. We’ll just leave it at that.
Secondly, the study seems to ignore the fact that the leasing companies will be in business to make money, same as the oil industry. And if they are given the leverage to do so, they will likely exploit any advantage they have to control the price of the energy they are dispensing. Companies don’t just swallow up expenses, they pass them on to the customer and then expect to make a profit on top of that. If you’ve ever sat down and calculated how much you’ve paid the cell phone company over the last 10 years just to make phone calls and send text messages wherever you happen to be, you realize how they can be “giving away” free phones (in my case that would add up to about $10,000). What are they charging so much for? The infrastructure, plus profit. Scale that up to leasing energy modules (batteries) for your vehicle, and you can guess what you’re really going to pay to have the convenience to get anywhere you want to go in your electric vehicle.
Lastly, Charging by the mile opens up a whole new can of worms. Suddenly the metric of distance becomes the commodity, not the energy needed to get you that distance, and the operatives and gadgets needed to keep everyone honest become the pivot point. Suddenly if I go over my mileage limit, I’m going to start paying through the nose just to get to work? I don’t know about you, but I don’t want to go there.
While I do believe that battery pack leasing will give a boost to the electric car industry, it does not answer the individual economic question: can I afford this? Using the cell phone plan model and comparing that to a vehicle component that is a thousand times bigger and more complex, and that holds your life (and your family’s) in it’s “hands,” starts to get scary.
Looking at history, you have to acknowledge that leasing is not the end-all. On the micro-economic level, while leasing fills an immediate need, it will never be a smart move for the long-term. I believe we will find that many people would rather buy and even make payments on their battery pack than lease the lifeblood of their vehicle on the whims of a for-profit corporation or government regulator (whoever controls them).
Finally, you can talk all you want about whether this will save the environment or not, but it always comes down to economics. From a micro-economic standpoint: will it save me money? From a macro-economic standpoint, will it improve the national economy? This latest surge in the electric vehicle sector has been driven by macro-economic factors (not environmental issues), but the longevity of the movement will be dependent on the response of individual and the family. And you can bet that the companies that will lose business from this movement will not just roll over and play dead either.
There’s one problem I see, besides those already mentioned. If the electricity is only going to be 13 cents cheaper than gas, where is the big savings? I liked the thought that you could put a solar panel on your garage and provide your own fuel. You’d never have to pay the oil companies or anyone else for your fuel within a reasonable range. Now it seems like we’re just switching from oil and the Middle East to electric batteries and China. Never mind the local power companies.
I’m all for the idea that you can swap out batteries for long trips, but if you’re staying under the battery range (which should be in the Tesla range, not the golf cart range), you shouldn’t be paying by the mile if you can provide your own power.
Nowdays with tax incentives and easier zoning laws, providing enough power for your vehicle to recharge is an attainable goal for many.
There’s one problem I see, besides those already mentioned. If the electricity is only going to be 13 cents cheaper than gas, where is the big savings? I liked the thought that you could put a solar panel on your garage and provide your own fuel. You’d never have to pay the oil companies or anyone else for your fuel within a reasonable range. Now it seems like we’re just switching from oil and the Middle East to electric batteries and China. Never mind the local power companies.
I’m all for the idea that you can swap out batteries for long trips, but if you’re staying under the battery range (which should be in the Tesla range, not the golf cart range), you shouldn’t be paying by the mile if you can provide your own power.
Nowdays with tax incentives and easier zoning laws, providing enough power for your vehicle to recharge is an attainable goal for many.
There’s one problem I see, besides those already mentioned. If the electricity is only going to be 13 cents cheaper than gas, where is the big savings? I liked the thought that you could put a solar panel on your garage and provide your own fuel. You’d never have to pay the oil companies or anyone else for your fuel within a reasonable range. Now it seems like we’re just switching from oil and the Middle East to electric batteries and China. Never mind the local power companies.
I’m all for the idea that you can swap out batteries for long trips, but if you’re staying under the battery range (which should be in the Tesla range, not the golf cart range), you shouldn’t be paying by the mile if you can provide your own power.
Nowdays with tax incentives and easier zoning laws, providing enough power for your vehicle to recharge is an attainable goal for many.
“…The study proposes that if battery prices are excluded from the upfront cost of the car, (the way ongoing fueling costs now are excluded from the upfront cost of a gasoline car), and with the $7,500 electric vehicle credit, EVs would have lower upfront cost than gas cars…”
This is FLAWED logic. The ongoing fueling costs are indeed excluded from a gasoline vehicle, but the fuel tank is not.
The fuel is the electricity NOT the battery, and it is already excluded from the upfront cost of the vehicle. The battery is merely a place to store the “fuel”.
This sounds like another way to allow the car companies to reap profits from substandard designs, while giving them NO incentive to improve.
If the vehicle is designed to last X number of miles or X years, this should be stated up front and the batteries should be warranted for that amount of time. This would provide an incentive for the manufacturer to improve the technology.
“…The study proposes that if battery prices are excluded from the upfront cost of the car, (the way ongoing fueling costs now are excluded from the upfront cost of a gasoline car), and with the $7,500 electric vehicle credit, EVs would have lower upfront cost than gas cars…”
This is FLAWED logic. The ongoing fueling costs are indeed excluded from a gasoline vehicle, but the fuel tank is not.
The fuel is the electricity NOT the battery, and it is already excluded from the upfront cost of the vehicle. The battery is merely a place to store the “fuel”.
This sounds like another way to allow the car companies to reap profits from substandard designs, while giving them NO incentive to improve.
If the vehicle is designed to last X number of miles or X years, this should be stated up front and the batteries should be warranted for that amount of time. This would provide an incentive for the manufacturer to improve the technology.
@Sean, I agree: with the pay as you go “cell phone” type battery lease plan – -
“If the electricity is only going to be 13 cents cheaper than gas, where is the big savings?”
It sure doesn’t save as much as owning the entire car (including battery) (Volt, iMiEV, Tesla,RiE, MiniE, SmartEV development model)
So you can make your own solar electricity to power your EV. That looks like the future.
For some people, renting (THINK, Nissan LEAF model)and battery swaps will be easier than owning.
@Sean, I agree: with the pay as you go “cell phone” type battery lease plan – -
“If the electricity is only going to be 13 cents cheaper than gas, where is the big savings?”
It sure doesn’t save as much as owning the entire car (including battery) (Volt, iMiEV, Tesla,RiE, MiniE, SmartEV development model)
So you can make your own solar electricity to power your EV. That looks like the future.
For some people, renting (THINK, Nissan LEAF model)and battery swaps will be easier than owning.
@Sean, I agree: with the pay as you go “cell phone” type battery lease plan – -
“If the electricity is only going to be 13 cents cheaper than gas, where is the big savings?”
It sure doesn’t save as much as owning the entire car (including battery) (Volt, iMiEV, Tesla,RiE, MiniE, SmartEV development model)
So you can make your own solar electricity to power your EV. That looks like the future.
For some people, renting (THINK, Nissan LEAF model)and battery swaps will be easier than owning.
Remember, these leasing companies will be in it for profit, just like the cell phone companies. When was the last time you calculated how much your cell phone cost you over the last 10 years? (A conservative figure would be about $10,000). Scale that up to battery packs worth tens-of-thousands to begin with, then add the infrastructure costs and a tidy profit margin, and what do you think these leasing companies will charge once we get dependent on them? And if you go over your miles for your allotted mileage plan, you can bet you’ll be paying through the nose just to get to work. Just make sure you get a mileage rollover plan.
Don’t get me wrong. I think that the leasing idea, at least in theory, makes sense and could really give the electric auto industry a boost. But my guess is that eventually we will start figuring out how much it really costs to lease; at which point most people would rather make payments on the battery pack than pay trumped-up leasing prices.
Also, don’t get too caught up in the environmental argument (i.e. tailpipe vs. smoke stack). The success of electric cars has never been about the environment, it’s about economics. Right now the whole push is a way to stimulate the national economy, but the longevity of the movement will ultimately come down to whether it saves the consumer money or not. Leasing is never a way to save money.
Remember, these leasing companies will be in it for profit, just like the cell phone companies. When was the last time you calculated how much your cell phone cost you over the last 10 years? (A conservative figure would be about $10,000). Scale that up to battery packs worth tens-of-thousands to begin with, then add the infrastructure costs and a tidy profit margin, and what do you think these leasing companies will charge once we get dependent on them? And if you go over your miles for your allotted mileage plan, you can bet you’ll be paying through the nose just to get to work. Just make sure you get a mileage rollover plan.
Don’t get me wrong. I think that the leasing idea, at least in theory, makes sense and could really give the electric auto industry a boost. But my guess is that eventually we will start figuring out how much it really costs to lease; at which point most people would rather make payments on the battery pack than pay trumped-up leasing prices.
Also, don’t get too caught up in the environmental argument (i.e. tailpipe vs. smoke stack). The success of electric cars has never been about the environment, it’s about economics. Right now the whole push is a way to stimulate the national economy, but the longevity of the movement will ultimately come down to whether it saves the consumer money or not. Leasing is never a way to save money.
@JD Kennedy Good points. Great site.
I do think the eco reason is also a pretty compelling one since the electricity grid will get much greener in the next decades as we switch to solar and wind and geothermal – and even natural gas is cleaner (40%-60%) than coal.
Already some states have wind power alone hitting the double digits: states that passed utility RPS requirements have just leaped ahead. Once they have paid off that initial investment energy there will be cheaper.
@JD Kennedy Good points. Great site.
I do think the eco reason is also a pretty compelling one since the electricity grid will get much greener in the next decades as we switch to solar and wind and geothermal – and even natural gas is cleaner (40%-60%) than coal.
Already some states have wind power alone hitting the double digits: states that passed utility RPS requirements have just leaped ahead. Once they have paid off that initial investment energy there will be cheaper.
@JD Kennedy Good points. Great site.
I do think the eco reason is also a pretty compelling one since the electricity grid will get much greener in the next decades as we switch to solar and wind and geothermal – and even natural gas is cleaner (40%-60%) than coal.
Already some states have wind power alone hitting the double digits: states that passed utility RPS requirements have just leaped ahead. Once they have paid off that initial investment energy there will be cheaper.
Remember, these leasing companies will be in it for profit, just like the cell phone companies. When was the last time you calculated how much your cell phone cost you over the last 10 years? (A conservative figure would be about $10,000). Scale that up to battery packs worth tens-of-thousands to begin with, then add the infrastructure costs and a tidy profit margin, and what do you think these leasing companies will charge once we get dependent on them? And if you go over your miles for your allotted mileage plan, you can bet you’ll be paying through the nose just to get to work. Just make sure you get a mileage rollover plan.
Don’t get me wrong. I think that the leasing idea, at least in theory, makes sense and could really give the electric auto industry a boost. But my guess is that eventually we will start figuring out how much it really costs to lease; at which point most people would rather make payments on the battery pack than pay trumped-up leasing prices.
Remember, these leasing companies will be in it for profit, just like the cell phone companies. When was the last time you calculated how much your cell phone cost you over the last 10 years? (A conservative figure would be about $10,000). Scale that up to battery packs worth tens-of-thousands to begin with, then add the infrastructure costs and a tidy profit margin, and what do you think these leasing companies will charge once we get dependent on them? And if you go over your miles for your allotted mileage plan, you can bet you’ll be paying through the nose just to get to work. Just make sure you get a mileage rollover plan.
Don’t get me wrong. I think that the leasing idea, at least in theory, makes sense and could really give the electric auto industry a boost. But my guess is that eventually we will start figuring out how much it really costs to lease; at which point most people would rather make payments on the battery pack than pay trumped-up leasing prices.
Remember, these leasing companies will be in it for profit, just like the cell phone companies. When was the last time you calculated how much your cell phone cost you over the last 10 years? (A conservative figure would be about $10,000). Scale that up to battery packs worth tens-of-thousands to begin with, then add the infrastructure costs and a tidy profit margin, and what do you think these leasing companies will charge once we get dependent on them? And if you go over your miles for your allotted mileage plan, you can bet you’ll be paying through the nose just to get to work. Just make sure you get a mileage rollover plan.
Don’t get me wrong. I think that the leasing idea, at least in theory, makes sense and could really give the electric auto industry a boost. But my guess is that eventually we will start figuring out how much it really costs to lease; at which point most people would rather make payments on the battery pack than pay trumped-up leasing prices.
So what happens when the leasing companies start gaining control and charging exorbitant amounts for their batteries? Sounds like a good short-term solution, but not going to fly in the long-term.
So what happens when the leasing companies start gaining control and charging exorbitant amounts for their batteries? Sounds like a good short-term solution, but not going to fly in the long-term.
So what happens when the leasing companies start gaining control and charging exorbitant amounts for their batteries? Sounds like a good short-term solution, but not going to fly in the long-term.
and with the $7,500 electric vehicle credit, EVs would have lower upfront cost than gas cars.
We need to take the government credits out of this equation. I pay less for my car, but pay more in taxes to support the rebate (or related price increase on those paying the higher taxes, etc.).
and with the $7,500 electric vehicle credit, EVs would have lower upfront cost than gas cars.
We need to take the government credits out of this equation. I pay less for my car, but pay more in taxes to support the rebate (or related price increase on those paying the higher taxes, etc.).
and with the $7,500 electric vehicle credit, EVs would have lower upfront cost than gas cars.
We need to take the government credits out of this equation. I pay less for my car, but pay more in taxes to support the rebate (or related price increase on those paying the higher taxes, etc.).
There’s no other way of managing the economic crisis and auto industry but through the use of this large amount of money to produce more fuel-efficient electric cars.
There’s no other way of managing the economic crisis and auto industry but through the use of this large amount of money to produce more fuel-efficient electric cars.
There’s no other way of managing the economic crisis and auto industry but through the use of this large amount of money to produce more fuel-efficient electric cars.