Comments on: New Biofuel Could Lead to 100% Clean Flights http://gas2.org/2009/07/23/new-biofuel-could-lead-to-100-clean-flights/ What is the future of fuel? What's new? What's next? Since 2007, Gas 2 has covered a rapidly changing world coming to terms with its oil addiction. Sun, 12 Feb 2012 21:57:52 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: The Petri Dish Overfloweth with Algae Advancements : Gas 2.0 http://gas2.org/2009/07/23/new-biofuel-could-lead-to-100-clean-flights/#comment-11402 The Petri Dish Overfloweth with Algae Advancements : Gas 2.0 Thu, 06 Aug 2009 22:23:46 +0000 http://gas2.org/?p=3019#comment-11402 [...] of North Dakota, got their name out just two weeks ago with the successful flight of their proprietary algae based super fuel called Jet Propellant - 8 (JP-8). As reported on this site, the fuel was used to launch a rocket above the Mojave Desert. The [...] [...] of North Dakota, got their name out just two weeks ago with the successful flight of their proprietary algae based super fuel called Jet Propellant – 8 (JP-8). As reported on this site, the fuel was used to launch a rocket above the Mojave Desert. The [...]

]]> By: A M Tottenham http://gas2.org/2009/07/23/new-biofuel-could-lead-to-100-clean-flights/#comment-11401 A M Tottenham Mon, 03 Aug 2009 21:39:01 +0000 http://gas2.org/?p=3019#comment-11401 I would reiterate Bill Webb's comments, adding only that by cycling through plants the CO2 would quickly return the Oxygen to our atmosphere before recapturing it for Cellular Respiration - unlike the burning of fossil fuels whose Carbon seizes Oxygen out of our atmosphere during combustion to form new CO2. A few starter questions that I would like answers to are: 1) How many hectares would be needed to produce 1 million gals? 2) Can the resultant biomass/fibre & protein & mineral rich cake remaining after oil expression be used for herbivore feed? and if so how many tonnes would be produced and how many cattle could be fed from this over a period of 1 year? Could this be made into a total concentrate or would it need to be supplemented with a forage? 3) Could the resultant Biomass be used directly in a burner for Heat production? I would reiterate Bill Webb’s comments, adding only that by cycling through plants the CO2 would quickly return the Oxygen to our atmosphere before recapturing it for Cellular Respiration – unlike the burning of fossil fuels whose Carbon seizes Oxygen out of our atmosphere during combustion to form new CO2. A few starter questions that I would like answers to are:

1) How many hectares would be needed to produce 1 million gals?

2) Can the resultant biomass/fibre & protein & mineral rich cake remaining after oil expression be used for herbivore feed? and if so how many tonnes would be produced and how many cattle could be fed from this over a period of 1 year? Could this be made into a total concentrate or would it need to be supplemented with a forage?

3) Could the resultant Biomass be used directly in a burner for Heat production?

]]> By: A M Tottenham http://gas2.org/2009/07/23/new-biofuel-could-lead-to-100-clean-flights/#comment-34609 A M Tottenham Mon, 03 Aug 2009 21:39:00 +0000 http://gas2.org/?p=3019#comment-34609 I would reiterate Bill Webb's comments, adding only that by cycling through plants the CO2 would quickly return the Oxygen to our atmosphere before recapturing it for Cellular Respiration - unlike the burning of fossil fuels whose Carbon seizes Oxygen out of our atmosphere during combustion to form new CO2. A few starter questions that I would like answers to are: 1) How many hectares would be needed to produce 1 million gals? 2) Can the resultant biomass/fibre & protein & mineral rich cake remaining after oil expression be used for herbivore feed? and if so how many tonnes would be produced and how many cattle could be fed from this over a period of 1 year? Could this be made into a total concentrate or would it need to be supplemented with a forage? 3) Could the resultant Biomass be used directly in a burner for Heat production? I would reiterate Bill Webb’s comments, adding only that by cycling through plants the CO2 would quickly return the Oxygen to our atmosphere before recapturing it for Cellular Respiration – unlike the burning of fossil fuels whose Carbon seizes Oxygen out of our atmosphere during combustion to form new CO2. A few starter questions that I would like answers to are:

1) How many hectares would be needed to produce 1 million gals?

2) Can the resultant biomass/fibre & protein & mineral rich cake remaining after oil expression be used for herbivore feed? and if so how many tonnes would be produced and how many cattle could be fed from this over a period of 1 year? Could this be made into a total concentrate or would it need to be supplemented with a forage?

3) Could the resultant Biomass be used directly in a burner for Heat production?

]]> By: jp http://gas2.org/2009/07/23/new-biofuel-could-lead-to-100-clean-flights/#comment-11400 jp Sat, 25 Jul 2009 18:12:44 +0000 http://gas2.org/?p=3019#comment-11400 Renewable jet fuel, sure. But I see two possible problems thoug. First, what acreage would be needed to produce enough biofuel to fly all the planes around the world? Biofuel might very well come from things that grow, and thus be technically "renewable", but the land needed to grow biofuel is still a limited resource. Second, to grow enough corn etc. to produce all the biofuel needed, farmers need gas, as well as pesticides and fertilizer made out of oil. So, you've got to be pretty shortsighted to believe biofuel is renewable... Renewable jet fuel, sure. But I see two possible problems thoug. First, what acreage would be needed to produce enough biofuel to fly all the planes around the world? Biofuel might very well come from things that grow, and thus be technically “renewable”, but the land needed to grow biofuel is still a limited resource.

Second, to grow enough corn etc. to produce all the biofuel needed, farmers need gas, as well as pesticides and fertilizer made out of oil. So, you’ve got to be pretty shortsighted to believe biofuel is renewable…

]]> By: jp http://gas2.org/2009/07/23/new-biofuel-could-lead-to-100-clean-flights/#comment-34608 jp Sat, 25 Jul 2009 18:12:00 +0000 http://gas2.org/?p=3019#comment-34608 Renewable jet fuel, sure. But I see two possible problems thoug. First, what acreage would be needed to produce enough biofuel to fly all the planes around the world? Biofuel might very well come from things that grow, and thus be technically "renewable", but the land needed to grow biofuel is still a limited resource. Second, to grow enough corn etc. to produce all the biofuel needed, farmers need gas, as well as pesticides and fertilizer made out of oil. So, you've got to be pretty shortsighted to believe biofuel is renewable... Renewable jet fuel, sure. But I see two possible problems thoug. First, what acreage would be needed to produce enough biofuel to fly all the planes around the world? Biofuel might very well come from things that grow, and thus be technically “renewable”, but the land needed to grow biofuel is still a limited resource.

Second, to grow enough corn etc. to produce all the biofuel needed, farmers need gas, as well as pesticides and fertilizer made out of oil. So, you’ve got to be pretty shortsighted to believe biofuel is renewable…

]]> By: Roboc http://gas2.org/2009/07/23/new-biofuel-could-lead-to-100-clean-flights/#comment-11398 Roboc Sat, 25 Jul 2009 07:16:54 +0000 http://gas2.org/?p=3019#comment-11398 >based on a mixture of canola and soybean oils So where will the land be found to grow enough beans to provide enough fuel for the ever expanding aviation industry? In the last few years we have seen food prices rise and some crops become scarce. The effects of climate change, and the end of oil, are set to make this situation worse in the coming years. Biofuels are a desperate attempt to maintain 'business as usual' when changes in behaviour are what is really required. >based on a mixture of canola and soybean oils

So where will the land be found to grow enough beans to provide enough fuel for the ever expanding aviation industry? In the last few years we have seen food prices rise and some crops become scarce. The effects of climate change, and the end of oil, are set to make this situation worse in the coming years. Biofuels are a desperate attempt to maintain ‘business as usual’ when changes in behaviour are what is really required.

]]> By: Roboc http://gas2.org/2009/07/23/new-biofuel-could-lead-to-100-clean-flights/#comment-34607 Roboc Sat, 25 Jul 2009 07:16:00 +0000 http://gas2.org/?p=3019#comment-34607 >based on a mixture of canola and soybean oils So where will the land be found to grow enough beans to provide enough fuel for the ever expanding aviation industry? In the last few years we have seen food prices rise and some crops become scarce. The effects of climate change, and the end of oil, are set to make this situation worse in the coming years. Biofuels are a desperate attempt to maintain 'business as usual' when changes in behaviour are what is really required. >based on a mixture of canola and soybean oils

So where will the land be found to grow enough beans to provide enough fuel for the ever expanding aviation industry? In the last few years we have seen food prices rise and some crops become scarce. The effects of climate change, and the end of oil, are set to make this situation worse in the coming years. Biofuels are a desperate attempt to maintain ‘business as usual’ when changes in behaviour are what is really required.

]]> By: Bill Webb http://gas2.org/2009/07/23/new-biofuel-could-lead-to-100-clean-flights/#comment-11396 Bill Webb Sat, 25 Jul 2009 03:17:14 +0000 http://gas2.org/?p=3019#comment-11396 It may be clean (but still produce CO2) and 100% renewable, but I'd like to know how clean the production of the fuel is -- how much chemical fertilizer (derived from petroleum) is required, how much energy used before an ounce of airplane is moved down a runway? What is the <i>real</i> carbon and pollution footprint, and how much devastation of the environment will be necessary to grow the millions of tons of canola and soybeans needed to keep the aviation fleet aloft? How much water will be needed? We need to look at net production costs in terms of all environmental issues, not just whether or not it burns clean. I'm not impressed yet. It may be clean (but still produce CO2) and 100% renewable, but I’d like to know how clean the production of the fuel is — how much chemical fertilizer (derived from petroleum) is required, how much energy used before an ounce of airplane is moved down a runway?

What is the real carbon and pollution footprint, and how much devastation of the environment will be necessary to grow the millions of tons of canola and soybeans needed to keep the aviation fleet aloft? How much water will be needed?

We need to look at net production costs in terms of all environmental issues, not just whether or not it burns clean. I’m not impressed yet.

]]> By: Bill Webb http://gas2.org/2009/07/23/new-biofuel-could-lead-to-100-clean-flights/#comment-34606 Bill Webb Sat, 25 Jul 2009 03:17:00 +0000 http://gas2.org/?p=3019#comment-34606 It may be clean (but still produce CO2) and 100% renewable, but I'd like to know how clean the production of the fuel is -- how much chemical fertilizer (derived from petroleum) is required, how much energy used before an ounce of airplane is moved down a runway? What is the <i>real</i> carbon and pollution footprint, and how much devastation of the environment will be necessary to grow the millions of tons of canola and soybeans needed to keep the aviation fleet aloft? How much water will be needed? We need to look at net production costs in terms of all environmental issues, not just whether or not it burns clean. I'm not impressed yet. It may be clean (but still produce CO2) and 100% renewable, but I’d like to know how clean the production of the fuel is — how much chemical fertilizer (derived from petroleum) is required, how much energy used before an ounce of airplane is moved down a runway?

What is the real carbon and pollution footprint, and how much devastation of the environment will be necessary to grow the millions of tons of canola and soybeans needed to keep the aviation fleet aloft? How much water will be needed?

We need to look at net production costs in terms of all environmental issues, not just whether or not it burns clean. I’m not impressed yet.

]]> By: Mark Hazell http://gas2.org/2009/07/23/new-biofuel-could-lead-to-100-clean-flights/#comment-11394 Mark Hazell Fri, 24 Jul 2009 20:45:55 +0000 http://gas2.org/?p=3019#comment-11394 The biggest problem I see with this is the simple fact that producing enough soy bean and canola oil to replace standard jet fuel would cause the cost of food to sky rocket, and it would also put increased pressure on the already troubling tendency to cut down rain forests that we see in Brazil. From my point of view these are deal killers. The biggest problem I see with this is the simple fact that producing enough soy bean and canola oil to replace standard jet fuel would cause the cost of food to sky rocket, and it would also put increased pressure on the already troubling tendency to cut down rain forests that we see in Brazil. From my point of view these are deal killers.

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