And I do agree that the electicity for hydrogen has to come from somewhere else, burning one fuel to produce another at a loss and which will be detrimental to the enviornment is a non starter from the very beginning.

The real cost to our enviornment by trying to produce bio fuels is also very damaging, the palm groves which lots of cooking oils and bio deisels come from is actually 20 times more polluting to the atmosphere that burning crude oil because of the large amounts of methane that is being released from the boggy areas that they have drained to plant the trees.

Its also detrimental to the wider cause/enviornment because the areas of deforestation that have taken place already to plant the palm groves has destroyed our natural carbon sync, rain forest and other native stands have many times the surface area for C02 reabsorbsion than palm, we are destroying our planets lungs, when we need more of them to soak up which we are unaturally adding.

Electric anything is detrimental somewhere along the line, I know we cannot do much as we are right now without ou it, but we will have to find another way soon or everything, every walk of life and what is recorded in cyberspace is going to be lost forever.

Touching on another but related subject, oil is electricity, and fertiliser which our food comes from oil and the machinery that makes it all happen

and its food which will be the deciding factor, civilisation is three meals away, ignor this fact and we will soon no longer have the phyisical energy to do the manual labour needed to eat anything.

And I do agree that the electicity for hydrogen has to come from somewhere else, burning one fuel to produce another at a loss and which will be detrimental to the enviornment is a non starter from the very beginning.

The real cost to our enviornment by trying to produce bio fuels is also very damaging, the palm groves which lots of cooking oils and bio deisels come from is actually 20 times more polluting to the atmosphere that burning crude oil because of the large amounts of methane that is being released from the boggy areas that they have drained to plant the trees.

Its also detrimental to the wider cause/enviornment because the areas of deforestation that have taken place already to plant the palm groves has destroyed our natural carbon sync, rain forest and other native stands have many times the surface area for C02 reabsorbsion than palm, we are destroying our planets lungs, when we need more of them to soak up which we are unaturally adding.

Electric anything is detrimental somewhere along the line, I know we cannot do much as we are right now without ou it, but we will have to find another way soon or everything, every walk of life and what is recorded in cyberspace is going to be lost forever.

Touching on another but related subject, oil is electricity, and fertiliser which our food comes from oil and the machinery that makes it all happen

and its food which will be the deciding factor, civilisation is three meals away, ignor this fact and we will soon no longer have the phyisical energy to do the manual labour needed to eat anything.

1. The lady is very much on the state control side – her answer to everything

2. She HATES big business (but apparently big government is OK?

3. She HATES oil companies – some oil company guy must have stole her pacifier when she was a baby

4. She HATES coal – maybe somebody dipped her pacifier in coal tar

5. She HATES H2 – due to it’s being sourced from natural gas (also naphtha) – a method that is very energy negative

6. She is against CNG powered vehicles as they compete with power plants for natural gas

7. She is POSITIVE speculators caused the run up in oil prices

8. HATE-HATE-HATE + POSITIVE-POSITIVE-POSITIVE

She has a lot of HATES and POSITIVES for one person. Maybe she needs a shrink?

To me – big government is always last choice – you end up with unqualified fools (such as senators & congressmen) directing things.

1. The lady is very much on the state control side – her answer to everything

2. She HATES big business (but apparently big government is OK?

3. She HATES oil companies – some oil company guy must have stole her pacifier when she was a baby

4. She HATES coal – maybe somebody dipped her pacifier in coal tar

5. She HATES H2 – due to it’s being sourced from natural gas (also naphtha) – a method that is very energy negative

6. She is against CNG powered vehicles as they compete with power plants for natural gas

7. She is POSITIVE speculators caused the run up in oil prices

8. HATE-HATE-HATE + POSITIVE-POSITIVE-POSITIVE

She has a lot of HATES and POSITIVES for one person. Maybe she needs a shrink?

To me – big government is always last choice – you end up with unqualified fools (such as senators & congressmen) directing things.

Until a method to produce H2 which does not use hydrocarbons as a feed stock is developed H2 will be going nowhere.

They should make a H2 distribution network between Galveston & Mobile if they want a trial – I believe a H2 pipeline exists along that corridor.

Similar problem with ethanol & biodiesel. Both are OK with processes & subsidies plus in small quantities today but come nowhere close to what is needed.

Technology marches on – will it march fast enough?

Until a method to produce H2 which does not use hydrocarbons as a feed stock is developed H2 will be going nowhere.

They should make a H2 distribution network between Galveston & Mobile if they want a trial – I believe a H2 pipeline exists along that corridor.

Similar problem with ethanol & biodiesel. Both are OK with processes & subsidies plus in small quantities today but come nowhere close to what is needed.

Technology marches on – will it march fast enough?

All these solutions, plus others, can be working at the same time. In fact, that’s what seems to be happening at the moment. Hydrogen Highways, EV Highways, Biodiesel Networks, etc.

The drawback of the multi-pronged approach is that you couldn’t take your car just anywhere, but for the most part, most of us don’t.

A national infrastructure is critical, but in the meantime, the internet allows us to centralize and share our (expanding?) array of transportation solutions.

All these solutions, plus others, can be working at the same time. In fact, that’s what seems to be happening at the moment. Hydrogen Highways, EV Highways, Biodiesel Networks, etc.

The drawback of the multi-pronged approach is that you couldn’t take your car just anywhere, but for the most part, most of us don’t.

A national infrastructure is critical, but in the meantime, the internet allows us to centralize and share our (expanding?) array of transportation solutions.

I was a big hydrogen fan as a high school and engineering student. In high school I won a gold medal with a painting entitled, “My hydrogen burning, rotary engined, Pinto car.”

I had been sucked in by the wonderful articles in Popular Mechanics and Popular Science, which presented all that is good about it but none of the bad.

In a nutshell, its use for transport is too expensive compared to other options. This graph shows why in terms of energy consumption:

http://home.comcast.net/~russ676/Graphics/img23.gif

There is nothing wrong with burning biodiesel made from waste grease but a TDI Jetta burning biodiesel is going to put out a lot more tailpipe emissions than its gasoline equivalent (though less CO2).

http://home.comcast.net/~russ676/biodiesel/page6.html

Several studies have shown that plug-in hybrids will greatly reduce GHG even with today’s coal fired mix in the energy grid. And if we can’t get rid of coal, it won’t matter what we drive.

The lithium in batteries is recyclable. It isn’t the same as oil where once you use it it’s gone.

I was a big hydrogen fan as a high school and engineering student. In high school I won a gold medal with a painting entitled, “My hydrogen burning, rotary engined, Pinto car.”

I had been sucked in by the wonderful articles in Popular Mechanics and Popular Science, which presented all that is good about it but none of the bad.

In a nutshell, its use for transport is too expensive compared to other options. This graph shows why in terms of energy consumption:

http://home.comcast.net/~russ676/Graphics/img23.gif

There is nothing wrong with burning biodiesel made from waste grease but a TDI Jetta burning biodiesel is going to put out a lot more tailpipe emissions than its gasoline equivalent (though less CO2).

http://home.comcast.net/~russ676/biodiesel/page6.html

Several studies have shown that plug-in hybrids will greatly reduce GHG even with today’s coal fired mix in the energy grid. And if we can’t get rid of coal, it won’t matter what we drive.

The lithium in batteries is recyclable. It isn’t the same as oil where once you use it it’s gone.