Comments on: Bioelectricity More Efficient than Ethanol for Transportation, Study Shows http://gas2.org/2009/05/08/bioelectricity-more-efficient-than-ethanol-for-transportation-study-shows/ What is the future of fuel? What's new? What's next? Since 2007, Gas 2 has covered a rapidly changing world coming to terms with its oil addiction. Mon, 13 Feb 2012 00:40:40 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: PW http://gas2.org/2009/05/08/bioelectricity-more-efficient-than-ethanol-for-transportation-study-shows/#comment-9527 PW Thu, 14 May 2009 14:00:41 +0000 http://gas2.org/?p=2358#comment-9527 I'm sure the oil companies would love to see liquid biofuels abandoned in favor of bioelectricity. Carbon emissions avoidance is far better achieved by displacing gasoline that power on the grid, if this is realy what we are after. This can be achieved by more efficient combustion engines and yes, the production of affordable electric vehicles, but blending biofuels into gasoline is a much quicker pathway than waiting on the car manufacturers to figure it out and for John Q. Public to step up and voluntarily sacrifice something. We had better get behind biofuels production in the short term or we'll wake up in another decade with no significant emissions reductions(or reduced dependence on foreign oil). And before anyone gets too worked up over killing or saving biofuels, coal plant emissions worldwide dwarf this entire segment of the carbon emissions debate. Don't lose focus or get too hung up on the propaganda that's out there, it's gonna take improvements in many areas to put a dent in this global problem. I’m sure the oil companies would love to see liquid biofuels abandoned in favor of bioelectricity. Carbon emissions avoidance is far better achieved by displacing gasoline that power on the grid, if this is realy what we are after. This can be achieved by more efficient combustion engines and yes, the production of affordable electric vehicles, but blending biofuels into gasoline is a much quicker pathway than waiting on the car manufacturers to figure it out and for John Q. Public to step up and voluntarily sacrifice something. We had better get behind biofuels production in the short term or we’ll wake up in another decade with no significant emissions reductions(or reduced dependence on foreign oil).

And before anyone gets too worked up over killing or saving biofuels, coal plant emissions worldwide dwarf this entire segment of the carbon emissions debate.

Don’t lose focus or get too hung up on the propaganda that’s out there, it’s gonna take improvements in many areas to put a dent in this global problem.

]]> By: PW http://gas2.org/2009/05/08/bioelectricity-more-efficient-than-ethanol-for-transportation-study-shows/#comment-32257 PW Thu, 14 May 2009 14:00:00 +0000 http://gas2.org/?p=2358#comment-32257 I'm sure the oil companies would love to see liquid biofuels abandoned in favor of bioelectricity. Carbon emissions avoidance is far better achieved by displacing gasoline that power on the grid, if this is realy what we are after. This can be achieved by more efficient combustion engines and yes, the production of affordable electric vehicles, but blending biofuels into gasoline is a much quicker pathway than waiting on the car manufacturers to figure it out and for John Q. Public to step up and voluntarily sacrifice something. We had better get behind biofuels production in the short term or we'll wake up in another decade with no significant emissions reductions(or reduced dependence on foreign oil). And before anyone gets too worked up over killing or saving biofuels, coal plant emissions worldwide dwarf this entire segment of the carbon emissions debate. Don't lose focus or get too hung up on the propaganda that's out there, it's gonna take improvements in many areas to put a dent in this global problem. I’m sure the oil companies would love to see liquid biofuels abandoned in favor of bioelectricity. Carbon emissions avoidance is far better achieved by displacing gasoline that power on the grid, if this is realy what we are after. This can be achieved by more efficient combustion engines and yes, the production of affordable electric vehicles, but blending biofuels into gasoline is a much quicker pathway than waiting on the car manufacturers to figure it out and for John Q. Public to step up and voluntarily sacrifice something. We had better get behind biofuels production in the short term or we’ll wake up in another decade with no significant emissions reductions(or reduced dependence on foreign oil).

And before anyone gets too worked up over killing or saving biofuels, coal plant emissions worldwide dwarf this entire segment of the carbon emissions debate.

Don’t lose focus or get too hung up on the propaganda that’s out there, it’s gonna take improvements in many areas to put a dent in this global problem.

]]> By: Matt R http://gas2.org/2009/05/08/bioelectricity-more-efficient-than-ethanol-for-transportation-study-shows/#comment-9526 Matt R Mon, 11 May 2009 17:07:45 +0000 http://gas2.org/?p=2358#comment-9526 ChuckL, even if the heat is a lot, it's just added at the time of creation. Changing the gas mixture of the atmosphere does it for the entire lifetime of the compositional changes. Some gasses have lifetimes that are huge (many thousands of years) so the integrated change is what matters. "well to wheel" efficiencies of electric vehicles is about 2X or greater than compared with ICE (doesn't really matter what type), so this is the root cause of the benefits of centralized electricity generated power production vs distributed combustion in cars. Centralized production also lends istelf to sequestration and the like to reduce carbon footprints much more cost effectively than doing so on every car that is on the road. ChuckL, even if the heat is a lot, it’s just added at the time of creation. Changing the gas mixture of the atmosphere does it for the entire lifetime of the compositional changes. Some gasses have lifetimes that are huge (many thousands of years) so the integrated change is what matters.

“well to wheel” efficiencies of electric vehicles is about 2X or greater than compared with ICE (doesn’t really matter what type), so this is the root cause of the benefits of centralized electricity generated power production vs distributed combustion in cars. Centralized production also lends istelf to sequestration and the like to reduce carbon footprints much more cost effectively than doing so on every car that is on the road.

]]> By: Matt R http://gas2.org/2009/05/08/bioelectricity-more-efficient-than-ethanol-for-transportation-study-shows/#comment-32256 Matt R Mon, 11 May 2009 17:07:00 +0000 http://gas2.org/?p=2358#comment-32256 ChuckL, even if the heat is a lot, it's just added at the time of creation. Changing the gas mixture of the atmosphere does it for the entire lifetime of the compositional changes. Some gasses have lifetimes that are huge (many thousands of years) so the integrated change is what matters. "well to wheel" efficiencies of electric vehicles is about 2X or greater than compared with ICE (doesn't really matter what type), so this is the root cause of the benefits of centralized electricity generated power production vs distributed combustion in cars. Centralized production also lends istelf to sequestration and the like to reduce carbon footprints much more cost effectively than doing so on every car that is on the road. ChuckL, even if the heat is a lot, it’s just added at the time of creation. Changing the gas mixture of the atmosphere does it for the entire lifetime of the compositional changes. Some gasses have lifetimes that are huge (many thousands of years) so the integrated change is what matters.

“well to wheel” efficiencies of electric vehicles is about 2X or greater than compared with ICE (doesn’t really matter what type), so this is the root cause of the benefits of centralized electricity generated power production vs distributed combustion in cars. Centralized production also lends istelf to sequestration and the like to reduce carbon footprints much more cost effectively than doing so on every car that is on the road.

]]> By: mog http://gas2.org/2009/05/08/bioelectricity-more-efficient-than-ethanol-for-transportation-study-shows/#comment-9525 mog Mon, 11 May 2009 15:16:19 +0000 http://gas2.org/?p=2358#comment-9525 The major difficulty with the study [assuming from the 'crop cultivation to vehicle propulsion does take in all factors, step-up and down transformers, transmission loss] is that coal is still king. Without political pressure, there is no economic incentive for change from coal. Politically, both parties were using the 'clean coal' line during elections, which leads to the belief that coal will remain king. With regionalized plants utilizing regional waste streams [reduce shipping from field to refinery to pump] processing ethanol from waste and THEN combusting the residual biomass for electricity, we can tighten up one end of the IC engine fuel path. With higher compression engines using hydrous [water added] alcohol base fuels, we tighten up the other end. Total efficiency from feedstock to wheel, just under 40%. The major difficulty with the study [assuming from the 'crop cultivation to vehicle propulsion does take in all factors, step-up and down transformers, transmission loss] is that coal is still king. Without political pressure, there is no economic incentive for change from coal. Politically, both parties were using the ‘clean coal’ line during elections, which leads to the belief that coal will remain king.

With regionalized plants utilizing regional waste streams [reduce shipping from field to refinery to pump] processing ethanol from waste and THEN combusting the residual biomass for electricity, we can tighten up one end of the IC engine fuel path.

With higher compression engines using hydrous [water added] alcohol base fuels, we tighten up the other end. Total efficiency from feedstock to wheel, just under 40%.

]]> By: mog http://gas2.org/2009/05/08/bioelectricity-more-efficient-than-ethanol-for-transportation-study-shows/#comment-32255 mog Mon, 11 May 2009 15:16:00 +0000 http://gas2.org/?p=2358#comment-32255 The major difficulty with the study [assuming from the 'crop cultivation to vehicle propulsion does take in all factors, step-up and down transformers, transmission loss] is that coal is still king. Without political pressure, there is no economic incentive for change from coal. Politically, both parties were using the 'clean coal' line during elections, which leads to the belief that coal will remain king. With regionalized plants utilizing regional waste streams [reduce shipping from field to refinery to pump] processing ethanol from waste and THEN combusting the residual biomass for electricity, we can tighten up one end of the IC engine fuel path. With higher compression engines using hydrous [water added] alcohol base fuels, we tighten up the other end. Total efficiency from feedstock to wheel, just under 40%. The major difficulty with the study [assuming from the 'crop cultivation to vehicle propulsion does take in all factors, step-up and down transformers, transmission loss] is that coal is still king. Without political pressure, there is no economic incentive for change from coal. Politically, both parties were using the ‘clean coal’ line during elections, which leads to the belief that coal will remain king.

With regionalized plants utilizing regional waste streams [reduce shipping from field to refinery to pump] processing ethanol from waste and THEN combusting the residual biomass for electricity, we can tighten up one end of the IC engine fuel path.

With higher compression engines using hydrous [water added] alcohol base fuels, we tighten up the other end. Total efficiency from feedstock to wheel, just under 40%.

]]> By: Russ Finley http://gas2.org/2009/05/08/bioelectricity-more-efficient-than-ethanol-for-transportation-study-shows/#comment-9524 Russ Finley Sat, 09 May 2009 22:10:48 +0000 http://gas2.org/?p=2358#comment-9524 The PDF is behind a subscription firewall. I linked to it here: http://biodiversivist.blogspot.com/2009/05/electric-cars-get-81-better-miles-per.html but unless you have a subscription to Science you can't read it. I did cut and paste a lot from it. The PDF is behind a subscription firewall. I linked to it here:

http://biodiversivist.blogspot.com/2009/05/electric-cars-get-81-better-miles-per.html

but unless you have a subscription to Science you can’t read it. I did cut and paste a lot from it.

]]> By: Russ Finley http://gas2.org/2009/05/08/bioelectricity-more-efficient-than-ethanol-for-transportation-study-shows/#comment-32254 Russ Finley Sat, 09 May 2009 22:10:00 +0000 http://gas2.org/?p=2358#comment-32254 The PDF is behind a subscription firewall. I linked to it here: http://biodiversivist.blogspot.com/2009/05/electric-cars-get-81-better-miles-per.html but unless you have a subscription to Science you can't read it. I did cut and paste a lot from it. The PDF is behind a subscription firewall. I linked to it here:

http://biodiversivist.blogspot.com/2009/05/electric-cars-get-81-better-miles-per.html

but unless you have a subscription to Science you can’t read it. I did cut and paste a lot from it.

]]> By: Martin K http://gas2.org/2009/05/08/bioelectricity-more-efficient-than-ethanol-for-transportation-study-shows/#comment-9523 Martin K Sat, 09 May 2009 22:09:40 +0000 http://gas2.org/?p=2358#comment-9523 Something more efficient than ethanol? That stuff we continue to subsidize with no return on investment? Color me surprised. Something more efficient than ethanol? That stuff we continue to subsidize with no return on investment? Color me surprised.

]]> By: Martin K http://gas2.org/2009/05/08/bioelectricity-more-efficient-than-ethanol-for-transportation-study-shows/#comment-32253 Martin K Sat, 09 May 2009 22:09:00 +0000 http://gas2.org/?p=2358#comment-32253 Something more efficient than ethanol? That stuff we continue to subsidize with no return on investment? Color me surprised. Something more efficient than ethanol? That stuff we continue to subsidize with no return on investment? Color me surprised.

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