I’m sure you’ve all read or heard people on TV saying that hybrid and electric cars won’t really catch on because oil prices are so low right now. Most of the time the comment goes unchallenged — which is really irritating for a number of reasons.
If you’re in a polite or reasonably polite conversation on the subject, and someone tries to get away with saying that, remember this little tidbit on OPECs dissatisfaction with current oil prices, brought to us by Bloomberg:
OPEC, supplier of more than 40 percent of the world’s oil, may cut production at a meeting next month if prices and markets are unstable, Iraqi Oil Minister Hussain al-Shahristani said.
“If demand is going to stay down as it has done, then obviously we will need to cut production,” he said at a conference in Doha, Qatar today.
Forbes (via the Associated press) has a little more of al-Shahrisani’s quote:
“At $40 per barrel, very few investors will be willing to invest in developing oil fields,” Hussain al-Shahristani told reporters on the sidelines of a conference Doha, Qatar. “And that’s going to create a big shortage in the world supply, which is not healthy.”
So when someone says something vapid, like “Oil prices are at record lows and there’s no way people will buy hybrid cars,” try not to hyperventilate. Be calm, remember the above and “gently” remind the person that in January, Arabian Business.com quoted OPEC’s target per barrel price at $70. That’s about $2.50-$2.80 for a gallon of regular gas, looking at GasBuddy.com’s historical price charts.
Find a way to work the following into the conversation. Demand and prices drop during a recession. OPEC and the rest of the oil producers are worried about it. They’re also worried about how industrialized countries are moving away from a dependence on foreign energy sources. They’re not panicking, because they’ve seen this before. The Oil Crisis of the 70′s hurt them politically, but they’ve done quite well financially ever since. They’ve seen and heard all the rigmarole about saving energy come and go.
Then say there’s something about this recession cycle that has to be unsettling to oil producers. They have little to guide them when the world economy starts to pick up again. The technology is already in place to cut demand permanently by a few percentage points. Low prices are putting pressure on Arabian governments that use oil money as transfer payments. They see an American President intent on creating jobs in alternative energy, and by extension reducing more demand. Global warming is not fiction (unless you write a conservative column for the Washington Post), and the rest of the world is worried and willing to do something about it. And if Iran’s Ahmadinejad isn’t a reason to go green, then nothing is.
And with that, you should be fully equipped to tangle with those who think cheap oil is an excuse to do nothing. Cheers!
Image Credit: Indigoprime’s Flickr Photostream under a Creative Commons License
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Given that oil is a limited resource, and that gas prices are bound to rise, I have to agree with your assessment, Sebastian.
Another observation – what’s with the high concentration of Sebastian’s in the green blogger niche? Sebastian Blanco from AutoBlogGreen, Sebastian James from Gas2, Sebastian Schepis from ZoomiLife.. just an interesting observation. It’s not a common name.
Given that oil is a limited resource, and that gas prices are bound to rise, I have to agree with your assessment, Sebastian.
Another observation – what’s with the high concentration of Sebastian’s in the green blogger niche? Sebastian Blanco from AutoBlogGreen, Sebastian James from Gas2, Sebastian Schepis from ZoomiLife.. just an interesting observation. It’s not a common name.
Given that oil is a limited resource, and that gas prices are bound to rise, I have to agree with your assessment, Sebastian.
Another observation – what’s with the high concentration of Sebastian’s in the green blogger niche? Sebastian Blanco from AutoBlogGreen, Sebastian James from Gas2, Sebastian Schepis from ZoomiLife.. just an interesting observation. It’s not a common name.
If People understand that for every gallon they buy, part of it funds groups that work against global peace, they might hesitate. These are the same groups we are fighting at war. Someone is double dipping here.
Nick
Electricnick.com
If People understand that for every gallon they buy, part of it funds groups that work against global peace, they might hesitate. These are the same groups we are fighting at war. Someone is double dipping here.
Nick
Electricnick.com
One more reason: the price of gas may have gone down, but what happened to your income?
One more reason: the price of gas may have gone down, but what happened to your income?
It is still about need and cost of ownership.
If there is a large carbon surcharge, then obviously that will change the cost comparisons, but until then, I choose economy. And I will wait for a technology solution of which I approve and can afford. And then I will wait until I can buy used.
So James’ comment on income is even more poignant, although probably not in the direction he was intending. My Camry is paid off. So unless I can do an even trade for a new Prius…
In the meantime, research everything with promise. There are great technologies over the horizon. Again, I will wait for them.
It is still about need and cost of ownership.
If there is a large carbon surcharge, then obviously that will change the cost comparisons, but until then, I choose economy. And I will wait for a technology solution of which I approve and can afford. And then I will wait until I can buy used.
So James’ comment on income is even more poignant, although probably not in the direction he was intending. My Camry is paid off. So unless I can do an even trade for a new Prius…
In the meantime, research everything with promise. There are great technologies over the horizon. Again, I will wait for them.
It is still about need and cost of ownership.
If there is a large carbon surcharge, then obviously that will change the cost comparisons, but until then, I choose economy. And I will wait for a technology solution of which I approve and can afford. And then I will wait until I can buy used.
So James’ comment on income is even more poignant, although probably not in the direction he was intending. My Camry is paid off. So unless I can do an even trade for a new Prius…
In the meantime, research everything with promise. There are great technologies over the horizon. Again, I will wait for them.
BTW, based on my gas usage, even getting a next gen Prius would still take many years to offset the capital cost. Even with gas at $5-6/gallon. So while I enjoy my $1.799 gas, I have a fairly large comfort buffer.
BTW, based on my gas usage, even getting a next gen Prius would still take many years to offset the capital cost. Even with gas at $5-6/gallon. So while I enjoy my $1.799 gas, I have a fairly large comfort buffer.
BTW, based on my gas usage, even getting a next gen Prius would still take many years to offset the capital cost. Even with gas at $5-6/gallon. So while I enjoy my $1.799 gas, I have a fairly large comfort buffer.
You had me going there until the comment about Global Warming. Aren’t you aware theat the code words are now Climate Change? Jeez, the fact that global temperatures have been declining since 1998 necessitates us to change the language. It was always Climate Change! It will forever be Climate Change! We are always at war with Climate Change! Never mind that we now know that increasing CO2 levels are a result of warming tmperatures, not a cause of it! Never mind that there is a strong correllation between sunspot activity (data going back 7 centuries) and global temperatures! Get with the program! Slip-ups like this can sink the entire socialist control program!
You had me going there until the comment about Global Warming. Aren’t you aware theat the code words are now Climate Change? Jeez, the fact that global temperatures have been declining since 1998 necessitates us to change the language. It was always Climate Change! It will forever be Climate Change! We are always at war with Climate Change! Never mind that we now know that increasing CO2 levels are a result of warming tmperatures, not a cause of it! Never mind that there is a strong correllation between sunspot activity (data going back 7 centuries) and global temperatures! Get with the program! Slip-ups like this can sink the entire socialist control program!
You had me going there until the comment about Global Warming. Aren’t you aware theat the code words are now Climate Change? Jeez, the fact that global temperatures have been declining since 1998 necessitates us to change the language. It was always Climate Change! It will forever be Climate Change! We are always at war with Climate Change! Never mind that we now know that increasing CO2 levels are a result of warming tmperatures, not a cause of it! Never mind that there is a strong correllation between sunspot activity (data going back 7 centuries) and global temperatures! Get with the program! Slip-ups like this can sink the entire socialist control program!
One of the things that you do not mention is actually doing an analysis of the cost of the hybrid and its payback period. For instance, lets say that with the hybrid I get 40MPG and my old car I got 20MPG. If I do 20k miles a year at $4.00 a gallon it is $2,000 vs. $4,000 for gas.
At $2.50 it is $1,250 vs. $2,500.
Given that hybrid sell for a premium over the non-hybrid version and it is often $4,000 more, when is your payback period?
At $4.00 per gallon that is basically two years, not bad. At $2.50 it is 3.2 years. BUT, the stated life of the batteries is 80k miles so at 2.50 I just pay the car off and I need to replace the batteries. This means it will most likely have an effective resale value of zilch. So what did I save? And that is only if I am getting just 20mpg. Many people in the smaller cars are getting better than that, at 30mpg and $2.50 per gallon I only save $417 a year. The payback is 9.6 years, that is a loser right there.
You need to look at the individuals situation and not make blanket statements
One of the things that you do not mention is actually doing an analysis of the cost of the hybrid and its payback period. For instance, lets say that with the hybrid I get 40MPG and my old car I got 20MPG. If I do 20k miles a year at $4.00 a gallon it is $2,000 vs. $4,000 for gas.
At $2.50 it is $1,250 vs. $2,500.
Given that hybrid sell for a premium over the non-hybrid version and it is often $4,000 more, when is your payback period?
At $4.00 per gallon that is basically two years, not bad. At $2.50 it is 3.2 years. BUT, the stated life of the batteries is 80k miles so at 2.50 I just pay the car off and I need to replace the batteries. This means it will most likely have an effective resale value of zilch. So what did I save? And that is only if I am getting just 20mpg. Many people in the smaller cars are getting better than that, at 30mpg and $2.50 per gallon I only save $417 a year. The payback is 9.6 years, that is a loser right there.
You need to look at the individuals situation and not make blanket statements
Be sure you call your auto insurance man before buying a hybrid; you maybe in for a shock…..
Be sure you call your auto insurance man before buying a hybrid; you maybe in for a shock…..
Be sure you call your auto insurance man before buying a hybrid; you maybe in for a shock…..
“I’m sure you’ve all read or heard people on TV saying that hybrid and electric cars won’t really catch on because oil prices are so low right now. Most of the time the comment goes unchallenged — which is really irritating for a number of reasons.”
It’s irritating to me too, but for different reasons. The real reasons people are not currently buying electric or hybrid cars is because:
1) Cars with the new generation diesel engines are cheaper and perform just as well (or better depending on driving style) than the current gas hybrids.
2) After looking at the full life cycle of a hybrid vs. a traditional car, people are not sure the hybrid is much greener.
3) New technologies take a while to be accepted. Most people do not want to pay to be someone else’s beta tester. They might do it for a phone, but not something as expensive as a car. Hybrid cars need to become more of a known quantity before some dive in.
Thus, the long term solution/end game will be diesel hybrids (which also capture braking power). But this is going to take a while.
So everyone just stay calm. The world is not going to end if everyone doesn’t go out & buy a Prius tomorrow.
“I’m sure you’ve all read or heard people on TV saying that hybrid and electric cars won’t really catch on because oil prices are so low right now. Most of the time the comment goes unchallenged — which is really irritating for a number of reasons.”
It’s irritating to me too, but for different reasons. The real reasons people are not currently buying electric or hybrid cars is because:
1) Cars with the new generation diesel engines are cheaper and perform just as well (or better depending on driving style) than the current gas hybrids.
2) After looking at the full life cycle of a hybrid vs. a traditional car, people are not sure the hybrid is much greener.
3) New technologies take a while to be accepted. Most people do not want to pay to be someone else’s beta tester. They might do it for a phone, but not something as expensive as a car. Hybrid cars need to become more of a known quantity before some dive in.
Thus, the long term solution/end game will be diesel hybrids (which also capture braking power). But this is going to take a while.
So everyone just stay calm. The world is not going to end if everyone doesn’t go out & buy a Prius tomorrow.
“I’m sure you’ve all read or heard people on TV saying that hybrid and electric cars won’t really catch on because oil prices are so low right now. Most of the time the comment goes unchallenged — which is really irritating for a number of reasons.”
It’s irritating to me too, but for different reasons. The real reasons people are not currently buying electric or hybrid cars is because:
1) Cars with the new generation diesel engines are cheaper and perform just as well (or better depending on driving style) than the current gas hybrids.
2) After looking at the full life cycle of a hybrid vs. a traditional car, people are not sure the hybrid is much greener.
3) New technologies take a while to be accepted. Most people do not want to pay to be someone else’s beta tester. They might do it for a phone, but not something as expensive as a car. Hybrid cars need to become more of a known quantity before some dive in.
Thus, the long term solution/end game will be diesel hybrids (which also capture braking power). But this is going to take a while.
So everyone just stay calm. The world is not going to end if everyone doesn’t go out & buy a Prius tomorrow.
I didn’t buy a Prius because I wanted to save the world. I bought it because I liked the car and reducing consumption of fossil-fuel-based non-renewable energy sources makes economic sense on many levels. By the way, global warming may, in fact, be a myth and cease to exist. And, global cooling may be the next great environmental fad, but that would only mean that demand for energy to heat our homes will increase, so it doesn’t negate the need to use our energy resources wisely. Now, if we could just convince the technically challenged environmentalists on the planet to see the light on nuclear power, we could begin moving into the 21st century and beyond with real hope for improving the quality of life for all humans on Earth.
I didn’t buy a Prius because I wanted to save the world. I bought it because I liked the car and reducing consumption of fossil-fuel-based non-renewable energy sources makes economic sense on many levels. By the way, global warming may, in fact, be a myth and cease to exist. And, global cooling may be the next great environmental fad, but that would only mean that demand for energy to heat our homes will increase, so it doesn’t negate the need to use our energy resources wisely. Now, if we could just convince the technically challenged environmentalists on the planet to see the light on nuclear power, we could begin moving into the 21st century and beyond with real hope for improving the quality of life for all humans on Earth.
I didn’t buy a Prius because I wanted to save the world. I bought it because I liked the car and reducing consumption of fossil-fuel-based non-renewable energy sources makes economic sense on many levels. By the way, global warming may, in fact, be a myth and cease to exist. And, global cooling may be the next great environmental fad, but that would only mean that demand for energy to heat our homes will increase, so it doesn’t negate the need to use our energy resources wisely. Now, if we could just convince the technically challenged environmentalists on the planet to see the light on nuclear power, we could begin moving into the 21st century and beyond with real hope for improving the quality of life for all humans on Earth.
Rich: Your claim of 80,000 miles for Prius batteries is plain wrong. Most are still going strong at well over 100,000 miles.
Rich: Your claim of 80,000 miles for Prius batteries is plain wrong. Most are still going strong at well over 100,000 miles.
Rich: Your claim of 80,000 miles for Prius batteries is plain wrong. Most are still going strong at well over 100,000 miles.
The riposte to that little parry and thrust is that cartels inevitably fail to achieve production cuts because members cheat. OPEC has proven no exception to this rule.
Certainly oil prices will rise again. However, the fundamental price driver in the US petrol market is not so much crude prices as the balkanization of gasoline production and the political climate that prevents refiners from expanding, let alone building new plants.
Gasoline prices will remain volatile and subject to price spikes as long as petrol produced in, e.g., L.A. isn’t salable in, say, Chicago. And so on. These supply barriers will have much more profound effects on gasoline prices than will crude prices.
One can argue persuasively that now is the worst time to buy a hybrid. The cars cost much more than comparable conventional models. And currently that extra money will help our economy much more by flowing to providers of other goods and services than it will be spent on a hybrid. Get more haircuts and tip taxi drivers generously. Create some buzz among those service providers who talk to a lot of businesspeople that the economy is improving so that it, in fact, will.
Save the hybrid evangelism for later. And if you get in my face about it, as the author’s article suggests, I’ll smack you down :>).
The riposte to that little parry and thrust is that cartels inevitably fail to achieve production cuts because members cheat. OPEC has proven no exception to this rule.
Certainly oil prices will rise again. However, the fundamental price driver in the US petrol market is not so much crude prices as the balkanization of gasoline production and the political climate that prevents refiners from expanding, let alone building new plants.
Gasoline prices will remain volatile and subject to price spikes as long as petrol produced in, e.g., L.A. isn’t salable in, say, Chicago. And so on. These supply barriers will have much more profound effects on gasoline prices than will crude prices.
One can argue persuasively that now is the worst time to buy a hybrid. The cars cost much more than comparable conventional models. And currently that extra money will help our economy much more by flowing to providers of other goods and services than it will be spent on a hybrid. Get more haircuts and tip taxi drivers generously. Create some buzz among those service providers who talk to a lot of businesspeople that the economy is improving so that it, in fact, will.
Save the hybrid evangelism for later. And if you get in my face about it, as the author’s article suggests, I’ll smack you down :>).
I agree with your sentiment, but TOTALLY disagree with your conclusion. It is unwise to buy a product that requires a price supports/subsidies to be competitive, and then wraps your family in a cocoon of high amperage DC current (more dangerous than AC), and gallons of sulphuric acid. All wrapped in a car that is not going to come out well in a head-on with a mid size SUV. Add to that much higher than average maintenance costs (How much do those replacement batteries cost once they’re out of warranty anyway? just a few bucks? I doubt it…).
The Germans haven’t fallen for this nonsense. Smart, clean diesel technology is bringing real-sized cars to this shore that have power, room, and hybrid-beating fuel efficiency at a competitive price without subsidies. And diesel engines tend last and last and last.
I agree with your sentiment, but TOTALLY disagree with your conclusion. It is unwise to buy a product that requires a price supports/subsidies to be competitive, and then wraps your family in a cocoon of high amperage DC current (more dangerous than AC), and gallons of sulphuric acid. All wrapped in a car that is not going to come out well in a head-on with a mid size SUV. Add to that much higher than average maintenance costs (How much do those replacement batteries cost once they’re out of warranty anyway? just a few bucks? I doubt it…).
The Germans haven’t fallen for this nonsense. Smart, clean diesel technology is bringing real-sized cars to this shore that have power, room, and hybrid-beating fuel efficiency at a competitive price without subsidies. And diesel engines tend last and last and last.
I agree with your sentiment, but TOTALLY disagree with your conclusion. It is unwise to buy a product that requires a price supports/subsidies to be competitive, and then wraps your family in a cocoon of high amperage DC current (more dangerous than AC), and gallons of sulphuric acid. All wrapped in a car that is not going to come out well in a head-on with a mid size SUV. Add to that much higher than average maintenance costs (How much do those replacement batteries cost once they’re out of warranty anyway? just a few bucks? I doubt it…).
The Germans haven’t fallen for this nonsense. Smart, clean diesel technology is bringing real-sized cars to this shore that have power, room, and hybrid-beating fuel efficiency at a competitive price without subsidies. And diesel engines tend last and last and last.
Sebastian, oil is cheap. Even at $140 per barrel, oil is cheap. How cheap? Well, we still bought it, didn’t we? Yes, we bought less (there were also external economic forces in play), but we still bought it. If you drove less because you thought gas was too expensive, you were driving too much or too inefficiently to begin with.
$140/bbl wasn’t high enough to persuade the so called ‘greenies’ to plant some windmills off Nantucket (where the wind is constant). Nantucket, mind you (and Mass., Conn., & RI), where there are still oil-fired electric plants. Heck, in Litchfield County, CT, they’re having trouble getting a wind turbine approved at a sewer plant because the neighbors (who live next to a sewer plant!) are concerned about property values.
$140/bbl. wasn’t high enough to get any new nuke plants approved.
Is anyone else tired of hearing how great alternative energy sources are, as long as the proponents (especially the wealthy ones) don’t have to look at it or live near it?
And, Nick, it’s not just for every gallon of gas you buy that some money goes to people who really don’t like us. It’s every time you buy something made from petroleum derivatives (petrochemicals), like plastic. Got a lot of plastic inside that hybrid? That oil comes from somewhere. Or polyester – got any of that in your closet? That oil came from somewhere. A lot of carpeting is made from petrochemicals, too. There’s a lot of carpeting in this country. That oil comes from somewhere. Heck, anytime you buy anything, it was most likely delivered by truck and/or rail, which use oil.
It’s hard to imagine the radical change necessary to reduce dramatically or eliminate altogether our dependence on oil, regardless of its source. Hybid cars are a band-aid approach to a much larger issue.
Sebastian, oil is cheap. Even at $140 per barrel, oil is cheap. How cheap? Well, we still bought it, didn’t we? Yes, we bought less (there were also external economic forces in play), but we still bought it. If you drove less because you thought gas was too expensive, you were driving too much or too inefficiently to begin with.
$140/bbl wasn’t high enough to persuade the so called ‘greenies’ to plant some windmills off Nantucket (where the wind is constant). Nantucket, mind you (and Mass., Conn., & RI), where there are still oil-fired electric plants. Heck, in Litchfield County, CT, they’re having trouble getting a wind turbine approved at a sewer plant because the neighbors (who live next to a sewer plant!) are concerned about property values.
$140/bbl. wasn’t high enough to get any new nuke plants approved.
Is anyone else tired of hearing how great alternative energy sources are, as long as the proponents (especially the wealthy ones) don’t have to look at it or live near it?
And, Nick, it’s not just for every gallon of gas you buy that some money goes to people who really don’t like us. It’s every time you buy something made from petroleum derivatives (petrochemicals), like plastic. Got a lot of plastic inside that hybrid? That oil comes from somewhere. Or polyester – got any of that in your closet? That oil came from somewhere. A lot of carpeting is made from petrochemicals, too. There’s a lot of carpeting in this country. That oil comes from somewhere. Heck, anytime you buy anything, it was most likely delivered by truck and/or rail, which use oil.
It’s hard to imagine the radical change necessary to reduce dramatically or eliminate altogether our dependence on oil, regardless of its source. Hybid cars are a band-aid approach to a much larger issue.
Well, let’s see. A Prius is about twice the price of the non-hybrid equivalent, Yaris, Fit or Corolla. If we go back to $4 gallon gas you’ll break even between the two in about six years, if the Prius does not need the battery replacement that Toyota says it will by that point (if it does, you’ll never break even. You’ll also never break even if you weigh insurance into it).
The emissions from the two vehicles are about a wash.
If you want to save money, get the Fit or Yaris. If you really want to save money, wring more years out of the car you have now as long as it’s something that gets 20 mpg and can be kept in emissions tune.
If you want to stroke your ego, get the Prius (that should be obvious from any interactions you’ve had with Prius owners; it’s all about the pose).
Well, let’s see. A Prius is about twice the price of the non-hybrid equivalent, Yaris, Fit or Corolla. If we go back to $4 gallon gas you’ll break even between the two in about six years, if the Prius does not need the battery replacement that Toyota says it will by that point (if it does, you’ll never break even. You’ll also never break even if you weigh insurance into it).
The emissions from the two vehicles are about a wash.
If you want to save money, get the Fit or Yaris. If you really want to save money, wring more years out of the car you have now as long as it’s something that gets 20 mpg and can be kept in emissions tune.
If you want to stroke your ego, get the Prius (that should be obvious from any interactions you’ve had with Prius owners; it’s all about the pose).
Well, let’s see. A Prius is about twice the price of the non-hybrid equivalent, Yaris, Fit or Corolla. If we go back to $4 gallon gas you’ll break even between the two in about six years, if the Prius does not need the battery replacement that Toyota says it will by that point (if it does, you’ll never break even. You’ll also never break even if you weigh insurance into it).
The emissions from the two vehicles are about a wash.
If you want to save money, get the Fit or Yaris. If you really want to save money, wring more years out of the car you have now as long as it’s something that gets 20 mpg and can be kept in emissions tune.
If you want to stroke your ego, get the Prius (that should be obvious from any interactions you’ve had with Prius owners; it’s all about the pose).
Don’t you naysayers get … ITS ABOUT DOING THE RIGHT THING …
This guys is soooooo smart he just KNOWS its the right thing to by an overly expensive car in the middle of a recession when gas is less than $2 a gallons. He JUST KNOWS IT so why can’t you become part of the solution instead of being part of the problem.
Apparently being a “green blogger” requires disconnecting the factual parts of your brain in order to just write about how you “feel” about things. No reasons or apparently reason needed.
Don’t you naysayers get … ITS ABOUT DOING THE RIGHT THING …
This guys is soooooo smart he just KNOWS its the right thing to by an overly expensive car in the middle of a recession when gas is less than $2 a gallons. He JUST KNOWS IT so why can’t you become part of the solution instead of being part of the problem.
Apparently being a “green blogger” requires disconnecting the factual parts of your brain in order to just write about how you “feel” about things. No reasons or apparently reason needed.
What kind of maintenence does a Prius need? When do the batteries (heavy metal, correct) need changing? I’ve seen Prius’s on sale for $20,000 instead of the old $30- but I need to know I won’t get hit with a $2000 maintenence bill every year.
What we HAVE to do is get the 8 MPG monsters off the road and get the minimum at least up to 20- that will affect the overall gas consumption much more than people moving from 30 to 60 MPG cars.
What kind of maintenence does a Prius need? When do the batteries (heavy metal, correct) need changing? I’ve seen Prius’s on sale for $20,000 instead of the old $30- but I need to know I won’t get hit with a $2000 maintenence bill every year.
What we HAVE to do is get the 8 MPG monsters off the road and get the minimum at least up to 20- that will affect the overall gas consumption much more than people moving from 30 to 60 MPG cars.
What kind of maintenence does a Prius need? When do the batteries (heavy metal, correct) need changing? I’ve seen Prius’s on sale for $20,000 instead of the old $30- but I need to know I won’t get hit with a $2000 maintenence bill every year.
What we HAVE to do is get the 8 MPG monsters off the road and get the minimum at least up to 20- that will affect the overall gas consumption much more than people moving from 30 to 60 MPG cars.
At this moment there’s zero reason to buy a hybrid. If there’s some major breakthrough, like EESTOR is everything it’s hyped to be, maybe my next car will be a full EV.
I’m starting to think the present day radical greening agenda is going to turn out as well as Stalin’s collectivization and Mao’s Great Leap Forward. Maybe kindler and gentler, instead of a body count it’ll only have an unemployment count. But it’s the same kind of mentality – what’s a few broken eggs when the omelet will be glorious?
At this moment there’s zero reason to buy a hybrid. If there’s some major breakthrough, like EESTOR is everything it’s hyped to be, maybe my next car will be a full EV.
I’m starting to think the present day radical greening agenda is going to turn out as well as Stalin’s collectivization and Mao’s Great Leap Forward. Maybe kindler and gentler, instead of a body count it’ll only have an unemployment count. But it’s the same kind of mentality – what’s a few broken eggs when the omelet will be glorious?
In the long run everything is a limited resource. I’m all for developing alternative energy, but I think it’s silly to expect that we can switch over in a short time. America has enough oil that we could be selling it, but we’re really addicted to environmentalists dogmas more than to oil.
In the long run everything is a limited resource. I’m all for developing alternative energy, but I think it’s silly to expect that we can switch over in a short time. America has enough oil that we could be selling it, but we’re really addicted to environmentalists dogmas more than to oil.
In the long run everything is a limited resource. I’m all for developing alternative energy, but I think it’s silly to expect that we can switch over in a short time. America has enough oil that we could be selling it, but we’re really addicted to environmentalists dogmas more than to oil.
I hate to break it to the hybrid haters, but their owners love them and don’t care if they cost a bit more up front. Besides that, most of you naysayers probably haven’t driven one or actually compared a Prius to something like the Fit by doing an actual test drive. They are not in the same class with respect to interior room and features. And, when they are comparably equipped, assessment of the five-years costs associated with these vehicles don’t show that much of a cost difference. Right now, the maintenance costs are a bit higher, but the gap is rapidly narrowing as more of them hit the road. In addition, the NiMH batteries have proven to be a non-problem. Testing has shown that most Prius batteries are likely to last the life of the vehicle. You don’t have to buy one, but you shouldn’t belittle their purchase by others by spewing unsubstantiated and opinion-based data.
I hate to break it to the hybrid haters, but their owners love them and don’t care if they cost a bit more up front. Besides that, most of you naysayers probably haven’t driven one or actually compared a Prius to something like the Fit by doing an actual test drive. They are not in the same class with respect to interior room and features. And, when they are comparably equipped, assessment of the five-years costs associated with these vehicles don’t show that much of a cost difference. Right now, the maintenance costs are a bit higher, but the gap is rapidly narrowing as more of them hit the road. In addition, the NiMH batteries have proven to be a non-problem. Testing has shown that most Prius batteries are likely to last the life of the vehicle. You don’t have to buy one, but you shouldn’t belittle their purchase by others by spewing unsubstantiated and opinion-based data.
Carbon credit trading is a good way for the politically well connected to make a fortune off a tax on the rest of us . we get poorer and they get rich.
Hybrids probably cost more energy to make than they can ever save.
“save the planet” is grandiose be thrifty instead. if you don’t buy a lot of stuff then less energy is wasted making junk. if you must drive a car , drive an inexpensive one with an economical gasoline engine .
I won’t bash those who buy them, unless they are just too proud of themselves…
But I also don’t like it when greeners try to bash me. They have to understand deeper facts before the simple ones typically used will influence me.
If the cost of ownership is the same (or comparable and coming down), like our nuclear scientist commenter, then I will wait until a 6 passenger version is released and I can buy one used. Then I can drive around my whole family.
And for people who want to boost CAFE standards, get a clue that the manufacturers game those standards. I own a crappy Honda minivan which is supposed to have great mileage, with the cool V6/3 engine, but actually gets much worse mileage than the Chevy Venture it replaced based on my family’s driving habits. Silly me for being an early adopter.
I won’t bash those who buy them, unless they are just too proud of themselves…
But I also don’t like it when greeners try to bash me. They have to understand deeper facts before the simple ones typically used will influence me.
If the cost of ownership is the same (or comparable and coming down), like our nuclear scientist commenter, then I will wait until a 6 passenger version is released and I can buy one used. Then I can drive around my whole family.
And for people who want to boost CAFE standards, get a clue that the manufacturers game those standards. I own a crappy Honda minivan which is supposed to have great mileage, with the cool V6/3 engine, but actually gets much worse mileage than the Chevy Venture it replaced based on my family’s driving habits. Silly me for being an early adopter.
I won’t bash those who buy them, unless they are just too proud of themselves…
But I also don’t like it when greeners try to bash me. They have to understand deeper facts before the simple ones typically used will influence me.
If the cost of ownership is the same (or comparable and coming down), like our nuclear scientist commenter, then I will wait until a 6 passenger version is released and I can buy one used. Then I can drive around my whole family.
And for people who want to boost CAFE standards, get a clue that the manufacturers game those standards. I own a crappy Honda minivan which is supposed to have great mileage, with the cool V6/3 engine, but actually gets much worse mileage than the Chevy Venture it replaced based on my family’s driving habits. Silly me for being an early adopter.