Politics no image

Published on February 11th, 2009 | by Jerry James Stone

190

BREAKING: Obama Says Building Sprawl Stops Now!

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From Green Car Congress:

Responding to a question from a city councilwoman about transportation and infrastructure in the stimulus bill during a town hall forum in Ft. Myers, Florida, President Obama said that the days of just building sprawl are over.

From a transcript provided by Transportation for America:

Not only do we need to rebuild our roads, our bridges, our ports, our levies, our dams, but we also have to plan for the future. This is the same example of turning crisis into opportunity…Now, look, this is America. We always had the best infrastructure. We were always willing to invest in the future. Governor Crist mentioned Abraham Lincoln. In the middle of the Civil War, in the midst of all this danger and peril, what did he do? He helped move the intercontinental railroad. He helped start land grant colleges. He understood that even when you’re in the middle of crisis, you’ve got to keep your eye on the future. So transportation is not just fixing our old transportation systems but its also imaging new transportation systems.

That’s why I’d like to see high speed rail where it can be constructed. That’s why I would like to invest in mass transit because potentially that’s energy efficient and I think people are alot more open now to thinking regionally in terms of how we plan our transportation infrastructure. The days where we’re just building sprawl forever, those days are over. I think that Republicans, Democrats, everybody recognizes that that’s not a smart way to build communities. So we should be using this money to help spur this kind of innovative thinking when it comes to transportation. That will make a big difference.

Do you think he can pull this off? Tell Obama to stand strong on this issue!


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About the Author

is a web developer, part-time blogger, and a full-time environmentalist. His crusade for all things eco started twenty years ago when he ditched his meat-and-potatoes upbringing for something more vegetarian-shaped. His passions include cooking, green tech, eco politics, and smart green design. And while he doesn't own a car anymore, he loves to write about those too. Jerry studied at Cal Poly in San Luis Obispo, CA. During his time there he was a DJ at the campus station KCPR and he also wrote for the campus paper. Jerry currently resides in San Francisco, CA with his cat Lola. You can stalk him on Twitter @jerryjamesstone.



  • http://sunshinesupercars.blogspot.com Jo Borras

    Awesome news. As a resident of South Florida, I have watched in HORROR as developer after developer has pushed to build into the Everglades. Even now, in a down housing and construction market, Lennar is lobbying to get the development line moved further West, further into Miami’s fresh water supplies.

    Go get ‘em, Obama!!

  • http://sunshinesupercars.blogspot.com Jo Borras

    Awesome news. As a resident of South Florida, I have watched in HORROR as developer after developer has pushed to build into the Everglades. Even now, in a down housing and construction market, Lennar is lobbying to get the development line moved further West, further into Miami’s fresh water supplies.

    Go get ‘em, Obama!!

  • http://hamburgersushi.com Jakejzg

    Yes! What we need is an even larger amount of money spend on government programs!

    I say, when government interaction has caused our economic and political systems to come to near collapse, the answer is MORE GOVERNMENT!

    Huzzah!

  • http://hamburgersushi.com Jakejzg

    Yes! What we need is an even larger amount of money spend on government programs!

    I say, when government interaction has caused our economic and political systems to come to near collapse, the answer is MORE GOVERNMENT!

    Huzzah!

  • http://hamburgersushi.com Jakejzg

    Yes! What we need is an even larger amount of money spend on government programs!

    I say, when government interaction has caused our economic and political systems to come to near collapse, the answer is MORE GOVERNMENT!

    Huzzah!

  • http://hamburgersushi.com Jakejzg

    Yes! What we need is an even larger amount of money spend on government programs!

    I say, when government interaction has caused our economic and political systems to come to near collapse, the answer is MORE GOVERNMENT!

    Huzzah!

  • http://sunshinesupercars.blogspot.com Jo Borras

    @Jakejzg

    I think there are plenty of people on both sides of the political fence who don’t think the current economic problems were caused by government interaction. If anything, you might be able to blame government IN-action!

    That said, anything that keeps Lennar and their creepy ilk from building into the Everglades is made of win.

  • http://sunshinesupercars.blogspot.com Jo Borras

    @Jakejzg

    I think there are plenty of people on both sides of the political fence who don’t think the current economic problems were caused by government interaction. If anything, you might be able to blame government IN-action!

    That said, anything that keeps Lennar and their creepy ilk from building into the Everglades is made of win.

  • Doug

    Really Jo? So Janet Reno forcing Freddie and Fannie to take those bad loans was not at the heart of this? That is most definitely government action. I am all for saving the Everglades, but this bloating of the government beast scares me silly.

  • Doug

    Really Jo? So Janet Reno forcing Freddie and Fannie to take those bad loans was not at the heart of this? That is most definitely government action. I am all for saving the Everglades, but this bloating of the government beast scares me silly.

  • Doug

    Really Jo? So Janet Reno forcing Freddie and Fannie to take those bad loans was not at the heart of this? That is most definitely government action. I am all for saving the Everglades, but this bloating of the government beast scares me silly.

  • Doug

    Really Jo? So Janet Reno forcing Freddie and Fannie to take those bad loans was not at the heart of this? That is most definitely government action. I am all for saving the Everglades, but this bloating of the government beast scares me silly.

  • Casey

    So long as we keep allowing illegal immigration to continue unabated, the “growth for growth’s sake” mentality will continue to drive urban sprawl. If you think uncontrolled immigration doesn’t affect rental markets, home prices, etc. you are simply ignorant. To not support illegal immigration is not racism – it is sanity. We need to control population growth in all its facets to protect natural resources, help unskilled American workers find jobs and allow increased immigration levels on LEGAL terms. Otherwise, this statement by Obama is just runaway optimism with no meaning or truth to it.

  • Casey

    So long as we keep allowing illegal immigration to continue unabated, the “growth for growth’s sake” mentality will continue to drive urban sprawl. If you think uncontrolled immigration doesn’t affect rental markets, home prices, etc. you are simply ignorant. To not support illegal immigration is not racism – it is sanity. We need to control population growth in all its facets to protect natural resources, help unskilled American workers find jobs and allow increased immigration levels on LEGAL terms. Otherwise, this statement by Obama is just runaway optimism with no meaning or truth to it.

  • Casey

    So long as we keep allowing illegal immigration to continue unabated, the “growth for growth’s sake” mentality will continue to drive urban sprawl. If you think uncontrolled immigration doesn’t affect rental markets, home prices, etc. you are simply ignorant. To not support illegal immigration is not racism – it is sanity. We need to control population growth in all its facets to protect natural resources, help unskilled American workers find jobs and allow increased immigration levels on LEGAL terms. Otherwise, this statement by Obama is just runaway optimism with no meaning or truth to it.

  • http://mpgomatic.com mpgomatic

    While I dislike sprawl intensely, this sure seems like a states rights issue …

  • http://mpgomatic.com mpgomatic

    While I dislike sprawl intensely, this sure seems like a states rights issue …

  • John

    Screw that. Am I supposed to live in the crime ridden city next to the crack house, just because Obama feels we need to stop sprawl. No frakkin way.

    The Fed is mismanaging the one rail system it has directly under it’s control (Amtrak). Why the hell would we want to put them in charge of another one?

  • John

    Screw that. Am I supposed to live in the crime ridden city next to the crack house, just because Obama feels we need to stop sprawl. No frakkin way.

    The Fed is mismanaging the one rail system it has directly under it’s control (Amtrak). Why the hell would we want to put them in charge of another one?

  • John

    Screw that. Am I supposed to live in the crime ridden city next to the crack house, just because Obama feels we need to stop sprawl. No frakkin way.

    The Fed is mismanaging the one rail system it has directly under it’s control (Amtrak). Why the hell would we want to put them in charge of another one?

  • John

    Screw that. Am I supposed to live in the crime ridden city next to the crack house, just because Obama feels we need to stop sprawl. No frakkin way.

    The Fed is mismanaging the one rail system it has directly under it’s control (Amtrak). Why the hell would we want to put them in charge of another one?

  • Edward

    @Doug

    I’m sorry but you’re misinformed. The banks didn’t have to be forced to give out subprime mortgages, it was profitable for them to do so. They gave loans to anything with a pulse, then securitized them and sold them off to other banks and investors. They made a lot of money off of this strategy for a while. Now that they finally realizes securities backed by subprime mortgages are worthless, everyone is clamoring for a bailout.

    The real cause was lack of oversight by the SEC and the last two decades of deregulation (under republican administrations) that allowed banks to gamble with America’s wealth the way they have.

  • Edward

    @Doug

    I’m sorry but you’re misinformed. The banks didn’t have to be forced to give out subprime mortgages, it was profitable for them to do so. They gave loans to anything with a pulse, then securitized them and sold them off to other banks and investors. They made a lot of money off of this strategy for a while. Now that they finally realizes securities backed by subprime mortgages are worthless, everyone is clamoring for a bailout.

    The real cause was lack of oversight by the SEC and the last two decades of deregulation (under republican administrations) that allowed banks to gamble with America’s wealth the way they have.

  • ChuckL

    This is a typical Obama sound bite. It sounds good, but has NO specifics that can be used as a measuring objective.

    This Harvard graduate, born in Kenya, and raised a Muslim in Indonesia is a fantastic speaker. He can keep the audience transfixed on his words for hours while saying absolutely nothing.

  • ChuckL

    This is a typical Obama sound bite. It sounds good, but has NO specifics that can be used as a measuring objective.

    This Harvard graduate, born in Kenya, and raised a Muslim in Indonesia is a fantastic speaker. He can keep the audience transfixed on his words for hours while saying absolutely nothing.

  • ChuckL

    This is a typical Obama sound bite. It sounds good, but has NO specifics that can be used as a measuring objective.

    This Harvard graduate, born in Kenya, and raised a Muslim in Indonesia is a fantastic speaker. He can keep the audience transfixed on his words for hours while saying absolutely nothing.

  • Jane

    Amtrak fails because no one uses it. No one uses it because the routes and services suck. The routes and services suck because of urban sprawl and the American car-culture.

    This is how we lower our dependence on foreign oil. This is how we lower carbon emissions. This is how we help homeowners save money that would be spent on insurance and gas.

    The “crack house” exists, indirectly because of poor urban planning and sprawl. When Americans return to the cities and make them places to live instead of abandoning them for the exurbs there will be more police presence and smaller area to patrol.

    This is what America sorely needs. Not offshore drilling. Not ethanol. This.

  • Jane

    Amtrak fails because no one uses it. No one uses it because the routes and services suck. The routes and services suck because of urban sprawl and the American car-culture.

    This is how we lower our dependence on foreign oil. This is how we lower carbon emissions. This is how we help homeowners save money that would be spent on insurance and gas.

    The “crack house” exists, indirectly because of poor urban planning and sprawl. When Americans return to the cities and make them places to live instead of abandoning them for the exurbs there will be more police presence and smaller area to patrol.

    This is what America sorely needs. Not offshore drilling. Not ethanol. This.

  • Nikolai

    I live in Arizona, and the main industry here is GROWTH. Yes that’s correct, GROWTH. NOT construction, NOT tourism, NOT industry, NOT real estate (especially now) but GROWTH, for the sake of GROWTH(and the construction/home development industry).

    We have lots and lots (literally) of commercial and residential buildings sitting vacant. A professional plaza was completed about a year ago one block from where I live, and there are NO lessors in it; NONE.

    A lot of the illegals are going back home because AZ cannot sustain this unlimited GROWTH as we have in the past, even with our low prices (and cheap non-union labor) because no one is buying or renting.

    In the past we were able to wait it out until economic times improved, but those were mere bumps in the road (1988-92 comes to mind) but now???

  • Nikolai

    I live in Arizona, and the main industry here is GROWTH. Yes that’s correct, GROWTH. NOT construction, NOT tourism, NOT industry, NOT real estate (especially now) but GROWTH, for the sake of GROWTH(and the construction/home development industry).

    We have lots and lots (literally) of commercial and residential buildings sitting vacant. A professional plaza was completed about a year ago one block from where I live, and there are NO lessors in it; NONE.

    A lot of the illegals are going back home because AZ cannot sustain this unlimited GROWTH as we have in the past, even with our low prices (and cheap non-union labor) because no one is buying or renting.

    In the past we were able to wait it out until economic times improved, but those were mere bumps in the road (1988-92 comes to mind) but now???

  • Nikolai

    I live in Arizona, and the main industry here is GROWTH. Yes that’s correct, GROWTH. NOT construction, NOT tourism, NOT industry, NOT real estate (especially now) but GROWTH, for the sake of GROWTH(and the construction/home development industry).

    We have lots and lots (literally) of commercial and residential buildings sitting vacant. A professional plaza was completed about a year ago one block from where I live, and there are NO lessors in it; NONE.

    A lot of the illegals are going back home because AZ cannot sustain this unlimited GROWTH as we have in the past, even with our low prices (and cheap non-union labor) because no one is buying or renting.

    In the past we were able to wait it out until economic times improved, but those were mere bumps in the road (1988-92 comes to mind) but now???

  • jpm100

    Want to fix sprawl. Fix crime in the cities.

  • jpm100

    Want to fix sprawl. Fix crime in the cities.

  • jpm100

    Want to fix sprawl. Fix crime in the cities.

  • jpm100

    Want to fix sprawl. Fix crime in the cities.

  • http://sunshinesupercars.blogspot.com Jo Borras

    @Doug

    Sorry, Doug – I normally agree with many of your points, but I think you’re wrong here. The housing loans went bad because of people like my friend “J”, who over-extended himself by using equity loans taken against the house his father left him to buy other pre-constriction properties, then “flip” the homes. I know otherwise decent people from middle-class up, who really could not afford to lose the money they were gambling, but who were so blinded by greed that they moved forward anyway.

    These people wanted to get something for nothing, and got burned. MANY people I talked to, even fairly wealthy educated people, actually believed (2 years ago) that real estate COULD NOT GO DOWN IN VALUE.

    That second type of people were NOT students of history, and that first type deserved what they could get. The banks giving both sets of people credit should have known better, and you are 100% right about something else: Reno and Clinton CERTAINLY played a role in making home loans so easy to get, but they passed those bills in a Repbulican House and Senate, so let’s not get blame-crazy just yet.

  • http://sunshinesupercars.blogspot.com Jo Borras

    @Doug

    Sorry, Doug – I normally agree with many of your points, but I think you’re wrong here. The housing loans went bad because of people like my friend “J”, who over-extended himself by using equity loans taken against the house his father left him to buy other pre-constriction properties, then “flip” the homes. I know otherwise decent people from middle-class up, who really could not afford to lose the money they were gambling, but who were so blinded by greed that they moved forward anyway.

    These people wanted to get something for nothing, and got burned. MANY people I talked to, even fairly wealthy educated people, actually believed (2 years ago) that real estate COULD NOT GO DOWN IN VALUE.

    That second type of people were NOT students of history, and that first type deserved what they could get. The banks giving both sets of people credit should have known better, and you are 100% right about something else: Reno and Clinton CERTAINLY played a role in making home loans so easy to get, but they passed those bills in a Repbulican House and Senate, so let’s not get blame-crazy just yet.

  • http://sunshinesupercars.blogspot.com Jo Borras

    @Doug

    Sorry, Doug – I normally agree with many of your points, but I think you’re wrong here. The housing loans went bad because of people like my friend “J”, who over-extended himself by using equity loans taken against the house his father left him to buy other pre-constriction properties, then “flip” the homes. I know otherwise decent people from middle-class up, who really could not afford to lose the money they were gambling, but who were so blinded by greed that they moved forward anyway.

    These people wanted to get something for nothing, and got burned. MANY people I talked to, even fairly wealthy educated people, actually believed (2 years ago) that real estate COULD NOT GO DOWN IN VALUE.

    That second type of people were NOT students of history, and that first type deserved what they could get. The banks giving both sets of people credit should have known better, and you are 100% right about something else: Reno and Clinton CERTAINLY played a role in making home loans so easy to get, but they passed those bills in a Repbulican House and Senate, so let’s not get blame-crazy just yet.

  • http://sunshinesupercars.blogspot.com Jo Borras

    @Doug

    Sorry, Doug – I normally agree with many of your points, but I think you’re wrong here. The housing loans went bad because of people like my friend “J”, who over-extended himself by using equity loans taken against the house his father left him to buy other pre-constriction properties, then “flip” the homes. I know otherwise decent people from middle-class up, who really could not afford to lose the money they were gambling, but who were so blinded by greed that they moved forward anyway.

    These people wanted to get something for nothing, and got burned. MANY people I talked to, even fairly wealthy educated people, actually believed (2 years ago) that real estate COULD NOT GO DOWN IN VALUE.

    That second type of people were NOT students of history, and that first type deserved what they could get. The banks giving both sets of people credit should have known better, and you are 100% right about something else: Reno and Clinton CERTAINLY played a role in making home loans so easy to get, but they passed those bills in a Repbulican House and Senate, so let’s not get blame-crazy just yet.

  • http://sunshinesupercars.blogspot.com Jo Borras

    @jpm100

    You have a SOLID point about crime rates in the inner cities, but a good bit of that has to do with local city governments and police presence. Simply: there is no budget to properly police those areas and give the worst offenders Serious beat-downs to catch on tape, post on YouTube as “M3GAP4WNAG3!!” and amuse us all.

    If you start moving some high-paying jobs into the city, the tax base will go up, more money can be spent on police presence, education, and youth programs – from there, the nice shops and trendies move in and crime goes down. Ex.: South Beach, the Flats at Cleveland, Boy’s Town in Chicago, etc.

  • http://sunshinesupercars.blogspot.com Jo Borras

    @jpm100

    You have a SOLID point about crime rates in the inner cities, but a good bit of that has to do with local city governments and police presence. Simply: there is no budget to properly police those areas and give the worst offenders Serious beat-downs to catch on tape, post on YouTube as “M3GAP4WNAG3!!” and amuse us all.

    If you start moving some high-paying jobs into the city, the tax base will go up, more money can be spent on police presence, education, and youth programs – from there, the nice shops and trendies move in and crime goes down. Ex.: South Beach, the Flats at Cleveland, Boy’s Town in Chicago, etc.

  • http://sunshinesupercars.blogspot.com Jo Borras

    @jpm100

    You have a SOLID point about crime rates in the inner cities, but a good bit of that has to do with local city governments and police presence. Simply: there is no budget to properly police those areas and give the worst offenders Serious beat-downs to catch on tape, post on YouTube as “M3GAP4WNAG3!!” and amuse us all.

    If you start moving some high-paying jobs into the city, the tax base will go up, more money can be spent on police presence, education, and youth programs – from there, the nice shops and trendies move in and crime goes down. Ex.: South Beach, the Flats at Cleveland, Boy’s Town in Chicago, etc.

  • http://sunshinesupercars.blogspot.com Jo Borras

    @jpm100

    You have a SOLID point about crime rates in the inner cities, but a good bit of that has to do with local city governments and police presence. Simply: there is no budget to properly police those areas and give the worst offenders Serious beat-downs to catch on tape, post on YouTube as “M3GAP4WNAG3!!” and amuse us all.

    If you start moving some high-paying jobs into the city, the tax base will go up, more money can be spent on police presence, education, and youth programs – from there, the nice shops and trendies move in and crime goes down. Ex.: South Beach, the Flats at Cleveland, Boy’s Town in Chicago, etc.

  • http://mpgomatic.com mpgomatic

    @Jane – I use Amtrak whenever possible. It’s never failed me. (yet)

  • http://mpgomatic.com mpgomatic

    @Jane – I use Amtrak whenever possible. It’s never failed me. (yet)

  • http://mpgomatic.com mpgomatic

    @Jane – I use Amtrak whenever possible. It’s never failed me. (yet)

  • http://mpgomatic.com mpgomatic

    @Jane – I use Amtrak whenever possible. It’s never failed me. (yet)

  • Ursus

    last I checked, most mass transit was either LESS efficient or at best break-even in terms of per-rider measurements, since the mass transit systems require more fuel consumption for the increased weight especially when they are empty

    what is the plan here, anyway? are taxes and penalties on single rider vehicles in order? are we going to have the government regulate that we shall all live in Soviet-style apartments so that the government transit will be most efficient? welcome to Obama’s new and improved NoKo

  • Ursus

    last I checked, most mass transit was either LESS efficient or at best break-even in terms of per-rider measurements, since the mass transit systems require more fuel consumption for the increased weight especially when they are empty

    what is the plan here, anyway? are taxes and penalties on single rider vehicles in order? are we going to have the government regulate that we shall all live in Soviet-style apartments so that the government transit will be most efficient? welcome to Obama’s new and improved NoKo

  • Ursus

    last I checked, most mass transit was either LESS efficient or at best break-even in terms of per-rider measurements, since the mass transit systems require more fuel consumption for the increased weight especially when they are empty

    what is the plan here, anyway? are taxes and penalties on single rider vehicles in order? are we going to have the government regulate that we shall all live in Soviet-style apartments so that the government transit will be most efficient? welcome to Obama’s new and improved NoKo

  • nanonymous

    So much for the value of a Harvard and Columbia education: Lincoln sponsored the transcontinental railroad.

    “Intercontinental,” for anyone with, y’know, a basic understanding of prefixes, means “between continents.”

  • nanonymous

    So much for the value of a Harvard and Columbia education: Lincoln sponsored the transcontinental railroad.

    “Intercontinental,” for anyone with, y’know, a basic understanding of prefixes, means “between continents.”

  • Ursus

    last I checked, most mass transit was either LESS efficient or at best break-even in terms of per-rider measurements, since the mass transit systems require more fuel consumption for the increased weight especially when they are empty

    what is the plan here, anyway? are taxes and penalties on single rider vehicles in order? are we going to have the government regulate that we shall all live in Soviet-style apartments so that the government transit will be most efficient? welcome to Obama’s new and improved NoKo

  • nanonymous

    So much for the value of a Harvard and Columbia education: Lincoln sponsored the transcontinental railroad.

    “Intercontinental,” for anyone with, y’know, a basic understanding of prefixes, means “between continents.”

  • michigan skeptic

    The one is going to tell me where I can live? By the way how much is the ALGore making off of repower america?

  • michigan skeptic

    The one is going to tell me where I can live? By the way how much is the ALGore making off of repower america?

  • michigan skeptic

    The one is going to tell me where I can live? By the way how much is the ALGore making off of repower america?

  • John Steele

    Yep, awesome. Just what we need even more $%$#% federal government intervention in our lives.

    Want to control sprawl, get involved in local politics, don’t grovel for the feds to save you!

  • John Steele

    Yep, awesome. Just what we need even more $%$#% federal government intervention in our lives.

    Want to control sprawl, get involved in local politics, don’t grovel for the feds to save you!

  • John Steele

    Yep, awesome. Just what we need even more $%$#% federal government intervention in our lives.

    Want to control sprawl, get involved in local politics, don’t grovel for the feds to save you!

  • smokes

    Sheesh. Anyone who believes this nation wrecker better nab a second mortgage on their second mortgage — quick like.

  • smokes

    Sheesh. Anyone who believes this nation wrecker better nab a second mortgage on their second mortgage — quick like.

  • smokes

    Sheesh. Anyone who believes this nation wrecker better nab a second mortgage on their second mortgage — quick like.

  • smokes

    Sheesh. Anyone who believes this nation wrecker better nab a second mortgage on their second mortgage — quick like.

  • RightMan

    You will live where we say, in the way that we say, how we say. Now shut up and sit down you have no freedom here.

  • RightMan

    You will live where we say, in the way that we say, how we say. Now shut up and sit down you have no freedom here.

  • RightMan

    You will live where we say, in the way that we say, how we say. Now shut up and sit down you have no freedom here.

  • mrkwong

    This is more mindless nanny-stateism.

  • mrkwong

    This is more mindless nanny-stateism.

  • Doug

    @Jo,

    Hey man first off I did not mean this as a blame the Dems. I firmly believe every politician in America is to blame for the problem. America is so fixated with fixing blame instead of fixing problems it is ridiculous.

  • Doug

    @Jo,

    Hey man first off I did not mean this as a blame the Dems. I firmly believe every politician in America is to blame for the problem. America is so fixated with fixing blame instead of fixing problems it is ridiculous.

  • Doug

    @Jo,

    Hey man first off I did not mean this as a blame the Dems. I firmly believe every politician in America is to blame for the problem. America is so fixated with fixing blame instead of fixing problems it is ridiculous.

  • Doug

    @Jo,

    Hey man first off I did not mean this as a blame the Dems. I firmly believe every politician in America is to blame for the problem. America is so fixated with fixing blame instead of fixing problems it is ridiculous.

  • Stephen

    Governor Crist might want to take a little closer look at the history he is invoking.

    http://www.landgrant.org/forfeiture.html

  • Stephen

    Governor Crist might want to take a little closer look at the history he is invoking.

    http://www.landgrant.org/forfeiture.html

  • ben

    I want to live in detached house with a fenced yard. If it takes “sprawl” to get that, I accept that. I do not want to live in an apartment, condo, or “dense housing”, or “urban infill” where I have to smell and listen to my neighbors all day and night. Especially when those neighbors are likely of a lower social class and less cultured than I am.

  • ben

    I want to live in detached house with a fenced yard. If it takes “sprawl” to get that, I accept that. I do not want to live in an apartment, condo, or “dense housing”, or “urban infill” where I have to smell and listen to my neighbors all day and night. Especially when those neighbors are likely of a lower social class and less cultured than I am.

  • brian

    What if we don’t want to live in cities? Are we to be relocated for the greater good?

    I’m supposed to go live in an over-crowded city because you believe the greenhouse theory is valid?

  • brian

    What if we don’t want to live in cities? Are we to be relocated for the greater good?

    I’m supposed to go live in an over-crowded city because you believe the greenhouse theory is valid?

  • brian

    What if we don’t want to live in cities? Are we to be relocated for the greater good?

    I’m supposed to go live in an over-crowded city because you believe the greenhouse theory is valid?

  • brian

    What if we don’t want to live in cities? Are we to be relocated for the greater good?

    I’m supposed to go live in an over-crowded city because you believe the greenhouse theory is valid?

  • http://www.redhatrob.com Redhatrob

    We have sprawl because of the law of supply and demand. Suburbs outside the city core became feasible when automobiles became affordable – in the great economic expansion of the 1920s. A house in the suburbs was the consciously chosen goal of most of the inhabitants of the city core. The Rich already had houses in the country. The working class wanted them to.

    “Ending sprawl” has more than a whiff of “collectivizing the kulaks” about it. Those who wanted to experiment with human nature made the 20th century the bloodiest 100 years in recorded human history.

    I tremble for my country…

  • http://www.redhatrob.com Redhatrob

    We have sprawl because of the law of supply and demand. Suburbs outside the city core became feasible when automobiles became affordable – in the great economic expansion of the 1920s. A house in the suburbs was the consciously chosen goal of most of the inhabitants of the city core. The Rich already had houses in the country. The working class wanted them to.

    “Ending sprawl” has more than a whiff of “collectivizing the kulaks” about it. Those who wanted to experiment with human nature made the 20th century the bloodiest 100 years in recorded human history.

    I tremble for my country…

  • http://www.redhatrob.com Redhatrob

    We have sprawl because of the law of supply and demand. Suburbs outside the city core became feasible when automobiles became affordable – in the great economic expansion of the 1920s. A house in the suburbs was the consciously chosen goal of most of the inhabitants of the city core. The Rich already had houses in the country. The working class wanted them to.

    “Ending sprawl” has more than a whiff of “collectivizing the kulaks” about it. Those who wanted to experiment with human nature made the 20th century the bloodiest 100 years in recorded human history.

    I tremble for my country…

  • http://www.redhatrob.com Redhatrob

    We have sprawl because of the law of supply and demand. Suburbs outside the city core became feasible when automobiles became affordable – in the great economic expansion of the 1920s. A house in the suburbs was the consciously chosen goal of most of the inhabitants of the city core. The Rich already had houses in the country. The working class wanted them to.

    “Ending sprawl” has more than a whiff of “collectivizing the kulaks” about it. Those who wanted to experiment with human nature made the 20th century the bloodiest 100 years in recorded human history.

    I tremble for my country…

  • Andrew

    People don’t drive their cars because they enjoy commuting. People drive their cars because they want to go when they want to go, not when an uninterested person’s schedule permits them. Mass transit is for cattle. Ask anyone who was unable to get to work or to class or to the store a week before Christmas during NYC’s transit strike a few years ago.

    No one wants to live in a city because it’s unsafe, old, and dirty, a monument to apathy disguised as social progress. This situation persists because of unbreakable city machines which exist to leech wealth and distribute it to designated constituencies. Everything is taxed, everything is spent, every city is broke. It’s a perversion of American liberty that would make Jefferson laugh and Hamilton say “Dude, that is NOT what I meant.”

    You can scold the suburbanites all you want, but until the city ceases to be a place for the overclass and the underclass, the middle class won’t live there.

  • Andrew

    People don’t drive their cars because they enjoy commuting. People drive their cars because they want to go when they want to go, not when an uninterested person’s schedule permits them. Mass transit is for cattle. Ask anyone who was unable to get to work or to class or to the store a week before Christmas during NYC’s transit strike a few years ago.

    No one wants to live in a city because it’s unsafe, old, and dirty, a monument to apathy disguised as social progress. This situation persists because of unbreakable city machines which exist to leech wealth and distribute it to designated constituencies. Everything is taxed, everything is spent, every city is broke. It’s a perversion of American liberty that would make Jefferson laugh and Hamilton say “Dude, that is NOT what I meant.”

    You can scold the suburbanites all you want, but until the city ceases to be a place for the overclass and the underclass, the middle class won’t live there.

  • Andrew

    People don’t drive their cars because they enjoy commuting. People drive their cars because they want to go when they want to go, not when an uninterested person’s schedule permits them. Mass transit is for cattle. Ask anyone who was unable to get to work or to class or to the store a week before Christmas during NYC’s transit strike a few years ago.

    No one wants to live in a city because it’s unsafe, old, and dirty, a monument to apathy disguised as social progress. This situation persists because of unbreakable city machines which exist to leech wealth and distribute it to designated constituencies. Everything is taxed, everything is spent, every city is broke. It’s a perversion of American liberty that would make Jefferson laugh and Hamilton say “Dude, that is NOT what I meant.”

    You can scold the suburbanites all you want, but until the city ceases to be a place for the overclass and the underclass, the middle class won’t live there.

  • Jeffersonian

    But didn’t the Transcontinental Railroad encourge “sprawl?”

  • Jeffersonian

    But didn’t the Transcontinental Railroad encourge “sprawl?”

  • Shelby

    Sprawl isn’t going to be much of a concern for at least the next couple of years. Except for government-driven projects, who’s going to start new construction in this economy?

  • Shelby

    Sprawl isn’t going to be much of a concern for at least the next couple of years. Except for government-driven projects, who’s going to start new construction in this economy?

  • Shelby

    Sprawl isn’t going to be much of a concern for at least the next couple of years. Except for government-driven projects, who’s going to start new construction in this economy?

  • Shelby

    Sprawl isn’t going to be much of a concern for at least the next couple of years. Except for government-driven projects, who’s going to start new construction in this economy?

  • John Lien

    Sounds like another case of the Government making us do what we don’t want to do. If we preferred using public transporataion a market would exist and we would use it. If we didn’t want to live in the “sprawl”, we wouldn’t. Apparently, most of us like our yards and detached houses and driving when and where we like. He is proposing to implement what MOST people would rather not do.

  • John Lien

    Sounds like another case of the Government making us do what we don’t want to do. If we preferred using public transporataion a market would exist and we would use it. If we didn’t want to live in the “sprawl”, we wouldn’t. Apparently, most of us like our yards and detached houses and driving when and where we like. He is proposing to implement what MOST people would rather not do.

  • mishu

    Mass transit fails because it’s slower. It’s simply the nature of the beast. To get effective ridership, it has to make stops along the way. With private transportation, you can travel non-stop. Of course there are times when traffic is bad but overall travel times are faster. You want greater efficiency? Encourage businesses to allow for telecommuting and flex time.

  • mishu

    Mass transit fails because it’s slower. It’s simply the nature of the beast. To get effective ridership, it has to make stops along the way. With private transportation, you can travel non-stop. Of course there are times when traffic is bad but overall travel times are faster. You want greater efficiency? Encourage businesses to allow for telecommuting and flex time.

  • mishu

    Mass transit fails because it’s slower. It’s simply the nature of the beast. To get effective ridership, it has to make stops along the way. With private transportation, you can travel non-stop. Of course there are times when traffic is bad but overall travel times are faster. You want greater efficiency? Encourage businesses to allow for telecommuting and flex time.

  • mishu

    Mass transit fails because it’s slower. It’s simply the nature of the beast. To get effective ridership, it has to make stops along the way. With private transportation, you can travel non-stop. Of course there are times when traffic is bad but overall travel times are faster. You want greater efficiency? Encourage businesses to allow for telecommuting and flex time.

  • http://www.pixelsagas.com Neale

    So, let me get this straight, you guys LIKE the idea of FORCING people to live based on government planning? I wonder, is there ANY aspect of human existence that shouldn’t be regulated by the proper planning committee coming out of the Kremlin/White House?

  • http://www.pixelsagas.com Neale

    So, let me get this straight, you guys LIKE the idea of FORCING people to live based on government planning? I wonder, is there ANY aspect of human existence that shouldn’t be regulated by the proper planning committee coming out of the Kremlin/White House?

  • http://www.pixelsagas.com Neale

    So, let me get this straight, you guys LIKE the idea of FORCING people to live based on government planning? I wonder, is there ANY aspect of human existence that shouldn’t be regulated by the proper planning committee coming out of the Kremlin/White House?

  • tyree

    So will illegal and illegal immigration also stop? Or will we be FORCED to live in overcrowded conditions? My grandson is the only one in his kindergarten class that speaks English as his first language. There would be significantly less sprawl if the US government had started enforcing the existing immigration laws 30 years ago.

    The government intentionally creates a crisis, then it tries to fix it by punishing us. Welcome to the Obamanation.

  • tyree

    So will illegal and illegal immigration also stop? Or will we be FORCED to live in overcrowded conditions? My grandson is the only one in his kindergarten class that speaks English as his first language. There would be significantly less sprawl if the US government had started enforcing the existing immigration laws 30 years ago.

    The government intentionally creates a crisis, then it tries to fix it by punishing us. Welcome to the Obamanation.

  • tyree

    So will illegal and illegal immigration also stop? Or will we be FORCED to live in overcrowded conditions? My grandson is the only one in his kindergarten class that speaks English as his first language. There would be significantly less sprawl if the US government had started enforcing the existing immigration laws 30 years ago.

    The government intentionally creates a crisis, then it tries to fix it by punishing us. Welcome to the Obamanation.

  • tyree

    So will illegal and illegal immigration also stop? Or will we be FORCED to live in overcrowded conditions? My grandson is the only one in his kindergarten class that speaks English as his first language. There would be significantly less sprawl if the US government had started enforcing the existing immigration laws 30 years ago.

    The government intentionally creates a crisis, then it tries to fix it by punishing us. Welcome to the Obamanation.

  • tyree

    Edward…

    Despite what you may have heard, Barney Frank is not a Republican. Keep your shallow minded hate, filled politics out of this.

  • tyree

    Edward…

    Despite what you may have heard, Barney Frank is not a Republican. Keep your shallow minded hate, filled politics out of this.

  • tyree

    Edward…

    Despite what you may have heard, Barney Frank is not a Republican. Keep your shallow minded hate, filled politics out of this.

  • Josh S

    I thought that crack houses existed because people smoke crack and will whore themselves out to get it.

  • Josh S

    I thought that crack houses existed because people smoke crack and will whore themselves out to get it.

  • JD

    Edward,

    Why do you think banks all of the sudden were willing to make loans to poorly qualified buyers?

    B/c the government was backing the loans.

    There was a perverse incentive for the bank to do something against its own long-term self-interest as a result of government initiatives designed to give poor people nice houses.

    Jane,

    Amtrak fails b/c it sucks, that’s true. It sucks b/c there’s no profit motive for either its owners or employees.

    You can move your own family next-door to the crack house first and get everything cleaned up. I would appreciate it if you and your President would not try to force me and my family to join you.

  • JD

    Edward,

    Why do you think banks all of the sudden were willing to make loans to poorly qualified buyers?

    B/c the government was backing the loans.

    There was a perverse incentive for the bank to do something against its own long-term self-interest as a result of government initiatives designed to give poor people nice houses.

    Jane,

    Amtrak fails b/c it sucks, that’s true. It sucks b/c there’s no profit motive for either its owners or employees.

    You can move your own family next-door to the crack house first and get everything cleaned up. I would appreciate it if you and your President would not try to force me and my family to join you.

  • JD

    Edward,

    Why do you think banks all of the sudden were willing to make loans to poorly qualified buyers?

    B/c the government was backing the loans.

    There was a perverse incentive for the bank to do something against its own long-term self-interest as a result of government initiatives designed to give poor people nice houses.

    Jane,

    Amtrak fails b/c it sucks, that’s true. It sucks b/c there’s no profit motive for either its owners or employees.

    You can move your own family next-door to the crack house first and get everything cleaned up. I would appreciate it if you and your President would not try to force me and my family to join you.

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  • JD

    Edward,

    Why do you think banks all of the sudden were willing to make loans to poorly qualified buyers?

    B/c the government was backing the loans.

    There was a perverse incentive for the bank to do something against its own long-term self-interest as a result of government initiatives designed to give poor people nice houses.

    Jane,

    Amtrak fails b/c it sucks, that’s true. It sucks b/c there’s no profit motive for either its owners or employees.

    You can move your own family next-door to the crack house first and get everything cleaned up. I would appreciate it if you and your President would not try to force me and my family to join you.

  • Shannon Love

    Sprawl is a bad thing. Speaking as someone who owns suburban property, it is much better for me if the poor and middle-class are crammed into dense urban warrens and dependent on narrow bands of mass-transportation.

    Nothing will raise the value of my property higher than protecting from it from degradation by hordes of my social inferiors. Just look at two places with strong growth restrictions today, Portland and San Francisco. Not a middle-class or lower type person seen except for those who ride mass transit in from out of town to work service jobs and then leave at night. It’s pretty sweet from where I am setting.

    Stopping the sprawl will do the same for other cities but in reverse. The upper classes can live in suburbs segregated from those who toil. Hell, in most anti-sprawl wet dreams, the jam packed urban masses won’t even have cars! They’ll have to travel only where their betters want them too!

    Unfortunately, America being the type of place it is, there is always the danger that individual freedom and choice will overwhelm the wisdom of centralized social planning. Perhaps Obama will change all that and ordinary people will live where and how they are told and learn to like it.

  • http://www.kloognome.com Rob Crawford

    Yay! Obama’s gonna tell us all where to live!

    All that freedom stuff was overrated anyway, wasn’t it?

  • Shannon Love

    Sprawl is a bad thing. Speaking as someone who owns suburban property, it is much better for me if the poor and middle-class are crammed into dense urban warrens and dependent on narrow bands of mass-transportation.

    Nothing will raise the value of my property higher than protecting from it from degradation by hordes of my social inferiors. Just look at two places with strong growth restrictions today, Portland and San Francisco. Not a middle-class or lower type person seen except for those who ride mass transit in from out of town to work service jobs and then leave at night. It’s pretty sweet from where I am setting.

    Stopping the sprawl will do the same for other cities but in reverse. The upper classes can live in suburbs segregated from those who toil. Hell, in most anti-sprawl wet dreams, the jam packed urban masses won’t even have cars! They’ll have to travel only where their betters want them too!

    Unfortunately, America being the type of place it is, there is always the danger that individual freedom and choice will overwhelm the wisdom of centralized social planning. Perhaps Obama will change all that and ordinary people will live where and how they are told and learn to like it.

  • http://www.kloognome.com Rob Crawford

    Yay! Obama’s gonna tell us all where to live!

    All that freedom stuff was overrated anyway, wasn’t it?

  • Carmela

    Jo – they weren’t fairly well educated if they don’t remember the last housing crash around 1990. That wasn’t that long ago. My church lost their endowment because it was all in real estate. Landlords were so desperate for renters, I had a nice place for 3 month free every year on a two year lease.

    I have friends who aren’t going to lose their houses even if they lose their jobs because they bought them before the market became bloated and they weren’t trying to get rich quick. When they refinanced when interest rates went lower, they put the money back in the house. They simply own more of it on a 30 and 15 year fixed – and they put 20% down to start! There house is worth less than it was a year ago, but it doesn’t matter because they aren’t selling for another 10 when the kids are out of school.

    If people behaved as tho they don’t own the home until the last payment is made, we wouldn’t be in this mess.

    To whomever let risky homeowners off the hook – it wasn’t banks. When we bought in 1990, you had to have so much proof of low risk. 20% down, ability to pay for housing insurance, and all that went away during the Clinton administration. That said, NO ONE was forced to buy a home. The whole predatory lender meme is a buch of hooey.

  • Carmela

    Jo – they weren’t fairly well educated if they don’t remember the last housing crash around 1990. That wasn’t that long ago. My church lost their endowment because it was all in real estate. Landlords were so desperate for renters, I had a nice place for 3 month free every year on a two year lease.

    I have friends who aren’t going to lose their houses even if they lose their jobs because they bought them before the market became bloated and they weren’t trying to get rich quick. When they refinanced when interest rates went lower, they put the money back in the house. They simply own more of it on a 30 and 15 year fixed – and they put 20% down to start! There house is worth less than it was a year ago, but it doesn’t matter because they aren’t selling for another 10 when the kids are out of school.

    If people behaved as tho they don’t own the home until the last payment is made, we wouldn’t be in this mess.

    To whomever let risky homeowners off the hook – it wasn’t banks. When we bought in 1990, you had to have so much proof of low risk. 20% down, ability to pay for housing insurance, and all that went away during the Clinton administration. That said, NO ONE was forced to buy a home. The whole predatory lender meme is a buch of hooey.

  • Carmela

    Jo – they weren’t fairly well educated if they don’t remember the last housing crash around 1990. That wasn’t that long ago. My church lost their endowment because it was all in real estate. Landlords were so desperate for renters, I had a nice place for 3 month free every year on a two year lease.

    I have friends who aren’t going to lose their houses even if they lose their jobs because they bought them before the market became bloated and they weren’t trying to get rich quick. When they refinanced when interest rates went lower, they put the money back in the house. They simply own more of it on a 30 and 15 year fixed – and they put 20% down to start! There house is worth less than it was a year ago, but it doesn’t matter because they aren’t selling for another 10 when the kids are out of school.

    If people behaved as tho they don’t own the home until the last payment is made, we wouldn’t be in this mess.

    To whomever let risky homeowners off the hook – it wasn’t banks. When we bought in 1990, you had to have so much proof of low risk. 20% down, ability to pay for housing insurance, and all that went away during the Clinton administration. That said, NO ONE was forced to buy a home. The whole predatory lender meme is a buch of hooey.

  • Carmela

    Jo – they weren’t fairly well educated if they don’t remember the last housing crash around 1990. That wasn’t that long ago. My church lost their endowment because it was all in real estate. Landlords were so desperate for renters, I had a nice place for 3 month free every year on a two year lease.

    I have friends who aren’t going to lose their houses even if they lose their jobs because they bought them before the market became bloated and they weren’t trying to get rich quick. When they refinanced when interest rates went lower, they put the money back in the house. They simply own more of it on a 30 and 15 year fixed – and they put 20% down to start! There house is worth less than it was a year ago, but it doesn’t matter because they aren’t selling for another 10 when the kids are out of school.

    If people behaved as tho they don’t own the home until the last payment is made, we wouldn’t be in this mess.

    To whomever let risky homeowners off the hook – it wasn’t banks. When we bought in 1990, you had to have so much proof of low risk. 20% down, ability to pay for housing insurance, and all that went away during the Clinton administration. That said, NO ONE was forced to buy a home. The whole predatory lender meme is a buch of hooey.

  • Emilio

    Brian beat me to it, but I’ll repeat his point anyway. Many, many people live in the suburbs (myself included) because we can’t stand the congestion, crime, noise and lack of privacy of the cities. So are you suggesting that we be relocated forcibly for the supposed “greater good”?

    Now I’ll be the first to admit that the rapid transit systems in Europe are great (at least in Germany) but they work because distances in the EU are much shorter and population densities are much higher. No matter how much you wish for things to be different, the United States will never enjoy those same conditions.

  • Emilio

    Brian beat me to it, but I’ll repeat his point anyway. Many, many people live in the suburbs (myself included) because we can’t stand the congestion, crime, noise and lack of privacy of the cities. So are you suggesting that we be relocated forcibly for the supposed “greater good”?

    Now I’ll be the first to admit that the rapid transit systems in Europe are great (at least in Germany) but they work because distances in the EU are much shorter and population densities are much higher. No matter how much you wish for things to be different, the United States will never enjoy those same conditions.

  • Emilio

    Brian beat me to it, but I’ll repeat his point anyway. Many, many people live in the suburbs (myself included) because we can’t stand the congestion, crime, noise and lack of privacy of the cities. So are you suggesting that we be relocated forcibly for the supposed “greater good”?

    Now I’ll be the first to admit that the rapid transit systems in Europe are great (at least in Germany) but they work because distances in the EU are much shorter and population densities are much higher. No matter how much you wish for things to be different, the United States will never enjoy those same conditions.

  • Emilio

    Brian beat me to it, but I’ll repeat his point anyway. Many, many people live in the suburbs (myself included) because we can’t stand the congestion, crime, noise and lack of privacy of the cities. So are you suggesting that we be relocated forcibly for the supposed “greater good”?

    Now I’ll be the first to admit that the rapid transit systems in Europe are great (at least in Germany) but they work because distances in the EU are much shorter and population densities are much higher. No matter how much you wish for things to be different, the United States will never enjoy those same conditions.

  • http://Instapundit Tom

    LOL @ Edward….and how do you think there was a market for securitized mortgage debt? It was enabled due to Fannie Mae buying everything it could, thanks to its’ government charter. Yes it was not profitable for the banks, look at today’s stock prices!

    SEC oversight has nothing to do with this issue…you are a clown! Eliminate the Community Reinvestment Act and stop insisting we who can afford housing are responsible for seeing that others who cannot are given their “right” to a mortgage. Yes this means even Black or Hispanic people! GASP!!!

  • Emilio

    An unrelated point (to the rapid transit one): I grew up in South Florida, from Homestead to Davie and prior to moving to South Carolina, lived in Pembroke Pines, comuting every day to Coral Gables.

    Sprawl in South Florida is a blight and if I were to move back, I would never consider living in the suburbs. The truth is I probably will never move back, even though I love the area, because of the hideous congestion. But sprawl is the result of the problem, not the problem itself. The problem is too many people trying to move into an area that can’t support that much population. Rapid transit systems can’t do anything about that at all.

  • Emilio

    An unrelated point (to the rapid transit one): I grew up in South Florida, from Homestead to Davie and prior to moving to South Carolina, lived in Pembroke Pines, comuting every day to Coral Gables.

    Sprawl in South Florida is a blight and if I were to move back, I would never consider living in the suburbs. The truth is I probably will never move back, even though I love the area, because of the hideous congestion. But sprawl is the result of the problem, not the problem itself. The problem is too many people trying to move into an area that can’t support that much population. Rapid transit systems can’t do anything about that at all.

  • Emilio

    An unrelated point (to the rapid transit one): I grew up in South Florida, from Homestead to Davie and prior to moving to South Carolina, lived in Pembroke Pines, comuting every day to Coral Gables.

    Sprawl in South Florida is a blight and if I were to move back, I would never consider living in the suburbs. The truth is I probably will never move back, even though I love the area, because of the hideous congestion. But sprawl is the result of the problem, not the problem itself. The problem is too many people trying to move into an area that can’t support that much population. Rapid transit systems can’t do anything about that at all.

  • deek

    It’s simply NONE of Dearest Leaders business whether or not there is “sprawl” in my community or not.

    Doubleplusnongood!

  • Emilio

    An unrelated point (to the rapid transit one): I grew up in South Florida, from Homestead to Davie and prior to moving to South Carolina, lived in Pembroke Pines, comuting every day to Coral Gables.

    Sprawl in South Florida is a blight and if I were to move back, I would never consider living in the suburbs. The truth is I probably will never move back, even though I love the area, because of the hideous congestion. But sprawl is the result of the problem, not the problem itself. The problem is too many people trying to move into an area that can’t support that much population. Rapid transit systems can’t do anything about that at all.

  • deek

    It’s simply NONE of Dearest Leaders business whether or not there is “sprawl” in my community or not.

    Doubleplusnongood!

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  • Holdfast

    Great – we can all live in little boxes in the sky, and Obama can control our thermostat and our medical care. Centralization as a step to greater government control. If you want to stop sprawl, stop making the cities unlivable. Stop using rent control in places like NYC – it means that only the rich and the entitled poor can live in the city center – the rest have to move out. Stop tolerating urban gangs and urban gangster mayors (Marion, Kwame – I am looking at you). Make the cities a good place to raise kids and the folks will stay without government coercion.

  • Holdfast

    Great – we can all live in little boxes in the sky, and Obama can control our thermostat and our medical care. Centralization as a step to greater government control. If you want to stop sprawl, stop making the cities unlivable. Stop using rent control in places like NYC – it means that only the rich and the entitled poor can live in the city center – the rest have to move out. Stop tolerating urban gangs and urban gangster mayors (Marion, Kwame – I am looking at you). Make the cities a good place to raise kids and the folks will stay without government coercion.

  • Hagar

    Yes,and as all you proud foot soldiers for the KENYAN,

    I’m sure you’ll all volunteer to move near a rail line

    and live in our shit hole cities.

  • Hagar

    Yes,and as all you proud foot soldiers for the KENYAN,

    I’m sure you’ll all volunteer to move near a rail line

    and live in our shit hole cities.

  • http://sunshinesupercars.blogspot.com Jo

    @Shelby

    Sprawl is a major issue in South Florida, and until someone has the presence of mind to fire-bomb Lennar, Mercedes, etc., it will continue to be a major issue.

  • http://sunshinesupercars.blogspot.com Jo

    @Shelby

    Sprawl is a major issue in South Florida, and until someone has the presence of mind to fire-bomb Lennar, Mercedes, etc., it will continue to be a major issue.

  • http://sunshinesupercars.blogspot.com Jo

    @Emilio

    You are 100% wrong – there is more than enough room to house twice the population of Miami/So. FL – just look at areas like Manhattan! The problem in Miami is the congestion, but if the building line was drawn at 117th instead of Krome, they’d be forced to build up – and WOULD! As a city becomes more vertical and more centralized, it becomes possible to live without a car and congestion disappears.

    Problem 2: SO many people in Miami (my family included) are immigrants, who moved to the US because they wanted the cars, homes, etc. they saw on TV. Until the “Miami Scene” starts to turn its back on “Mad Whips” and “Pimped Out Rides”, the vertical city solution won’t hold – you are right about that.

  • http://sunshinesupercars.blogspot.com Jo

    @Emilio

    You are 100% wrong – there is more than enough room to house twice the population of Miami/So. FL – just look at areas like Manhattan! The problem in Miami is the congestion, but if the building line was drawn at 117th instead of Krome, they’d be forced to build up – and WOULD! As a city becomes more vertical and more centralized, it becomes possible to live without a car and congestion disappears.

    Problem 2: SO many people in Miami (my family included) are immigrants, who moved to the US because they wanted the cars, homes, etc. they saw on TV. Until the “Miami Scene” starts to turn its back on “Mad Whips” and “Pimped Out Rides”, the vertical city solution won’t hold – you are right about that.

  • http://jreilly4261.livejournal.com Joseph Reilly

    We don’t necessarily need to put “more” money into ending urban sprawl, we just need to add strings to the money going out. No city or state will receive certain government funds when audits reveal they do not follow their own comprehensive plan. Seems reasonable.

  • http://jreilly4261.livejournal.com Joseph Reilly

    We don’t necessarily need to put “more” money into ending urban sprawl, we just need to add strings to the money going out. No city or state will receive certain government funds when audits reveal they do not follow their own comprehensive plan. Seems reasonable.

  • plutosdad

    “This is how we …”

    So Jane, you going to forcibly move people back to be piled in high rises?

    Have you been to a city lately? I live in Chicago, where Obama comes from. It is a crap-hole compared to the suburbs. And you and Obama want to force me to live here instead of a nicer place?

    Once I have my first kid I am outta here. For now it’s ok.

    And it’s nice to see Obama is being honest that he wants to stifle new industry and construction. The economy is in a shambles and we need to stimulate it, but put thousands of new restrictions on it first.

  • plutosdad

    “This is how we …”

    So Jane, you going to forcibly move people back to be piled in high rises?

    Have you been to a city lately? I live in Chicago, where Obama comes from. It is a crap-hole compared to the suburbs. And you and Obama want to force me to live here instead of a nicer place?

    Once I have my first kid I am outta here. For now it’s ok.

    And it’s nice to see Obama is being honest that he wants to stifle new industry and construction. The economy is in a shambles and we need to stimulate it, but put thousands of new restrictions on it first.

  • Allen

    Good luck with that Mr Obama. The United States is a rural country for the most part, duh.

  • Allen

    Good luck with that Mr Obama. The United States is a rural country for the most part, duh.

  • D gallagher

    Mr. Obama is smokin’ the spleaf again. Where would the President get the authority to do anything about urban sprawl? Not only is it not a Federal issue, it’s not even a State issue, building permits are a little more local than that. What with this being a free country and the land being privately owned and all, I’m sure that the president’s handlers are explaining all that to him now (BHO is learning a lot about US government now that he is President, hands on is the best way to learn).

    Edward – You seem very knowledgable, could you please quote us which regulations were de-enacted (and when) that lead to the meltdown? Barney Frank tried those excuses early on, I think you are the only one who bought it. When something bad happens and the Dem’s don’t squeel to high heaven for an investigation, that’s their way of saying “Our Bad”, the Dem’s control both houses of Congress, so when it that investigation starting?

  • D gallagher

    Mr. Obama is smokin’ the spleaf again. Where would the President get the authority to do anything about urban sprawl? Not only is it not a Federal issue, it’s not even a State issue, building permits are a little more local than that. What with this being a free country and the land being privately owned and all, I’m sure that the president’s handlers are explaining all that to him now (BHO is learning a lot about US government now that he is President, hands on is the best way to learn).

    Edward – You seem very knowledgable, could you please quote us which regulations were de-enacted (and when) that lead to the meltdown? Barney Frank tried those excuses early on, I think you are the only one who bought it. When something bad happens and the Dem’s don’t squeel to high heaven for an investigation, that’s their way of saying “Our Bad”, the Dem’s control both houses of Congress, so when it that investigation starting?

  • Bob Franks

    His statement about sprawl, and what that is, and how you stop it, and any sort of detail, makes me think that perhaps its time to stop saying slogans and actually talk about something directly.

  • Bob Franks

    His statement about sprawl, and what that is, and how you stop it, and any sort of detail, makes me think that perhaps its time to stop saying slogans and actually talk about something directly.

  • http://powerandcontrol.blogspot.com M. Simon

    There is no doubt government can prevent people from living where they choose to live. All Hail Obama who totally gets the Leadership Principle.

  • http://powerandcontrol.blogspot.com M. Simon

    There is no doubt government can prevent people from living where they choose to live. All Hail Obama who totally gets the Leadership Principle.

  • red

    Ed said

    —-I’m sorry but you’re misinformed. The banks didn’t have to be forced to give out subprime mortgages, it was profitable for them to do so. They gave loans to anything with a pulse, then securitized them and sold them off to other banks and investors —

    No, Ed. You are mis informed. Banks were forced by legal action to make subprime mortgages.

    ============

    The Times itself reported in 1999 that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were under pressure from the Clinton administration to increase lending to minorities and low-income home buyers–a policy that necessarily entailed higher risks. Can there really be a question, other than in the fevered imagination of the Times, where the push to reduce lending standards and boost home ownership came from?

    http://spectator.org/archives/2009/02/06/the-true-origins-of-this-finan

  • red

    Ed said

    —-I’m sorry but you’re misinformed. The banks didn’t have to be forced to give out subprime mortgages, it was profitable for them to do so. They gave loans to anything with a pulse, then securitized them and sold them off to other banks and investors —

    No, Ed. You are mis informed. Banks were forced by legal action to make subprime mortgages.

    ============

    The Times itself reported in 1999 that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were under pressure from the Clinton administration to increase lending to minorities and low-income home buyers–a policy that necessarily entailed higher risks. Can there really be a question, other than in the fevered imagination of the Times, where the push to reduce lending standards and boost home ownership came from?

    http://spectator.org/archives/2009/02/06/the-true-origins-of-this-finan

  • Bryan

    There is so much assumption in these opinions it is hard to know where to start.

    The funniest is the idea that building more rail systems is some step forward. If history is any guide they will be depending on massive subsidies from the government. And the number of people does not guarantee that this will not be the case. The NYC transit authority has millions of riders a year. They would cease operations if it was not for subsidies from the state government.

    This talk of building more rail systems is a bunch of hooey.

  • Bryan

    There is so much assumption in these opinions it is hard to know where to start.

    The funniest is the idea that building more rail systems is some step forward. If history is any guide they will be depending on massive subsidies from the government. And the number of people does not guarantee that this will not be the case. The NYC transit authority has millions of riders a year. They would cease operations if it was not for subsidies from the state government.

    This talk of building more rail systems is a bunch of hooey.

  • http://www.maxxgraphix.net Maxx

    Go ahead and build a light rail system. That’s nothing compared to the PORK in the stimulus act. $800 billion plus interest. 80% of it is worthless crap. Read it yourself for proof. It is also the beginning of socialism and moving toward total communism. America you have been scammed. USSA (United Socialist States of America)

  • http://www.maxxgraphix.net Maxx

    Go ahead and build a light rail system. That’s nothing compared to the PORK in the stimulus act. $800 billion plus interest. 80% of it is worthless crap. Read it yourself for proof. It is also the beginning of socialism and moving toward total communism. America you have been scammed. USSA (United Socialist States of America)

  • nobama

    @Edward

    I’m sorry but you’re more misinformed than Doug.

    Freddie and Fannie WERE forced to take bad loans (ask ACORN). They found a vehicle (mortgage backed securities) to make money on them after being forced to take them. That is the second phase of the fraud.

    The third phase of the fraud was the AAA credit ratings applied to these bundled securities by the so-called analysts so they could be sold on the international market. This is where the SEC failed to provide effective oversight. They were junk status from the beginning.

    Reasonable people made no less than 3 attempts at drafting legislation to reign in Freddie and Fannie and at least reduce the downside risk. Those attempts were blocked by certain folks in congress, NOT republicans (Chris Dodd or Barney Frank).

    “The real cause was lack of oversight by the SEC and the last two decades of deregulation (under republican administrations) that allowed banks to gamble with America’s wealth the way they have.”

    How exactly do you calculate that we’ve had two decades of republican administrations? I could have sworn Clinton was President until 2000 (8 years ago by my math). But then again, maybe I’m the one that’s misinformed.

    Deregulation is not the problem. Bad regulation is the problem. Our fantastic government should have completely deregulated Fannie and Freddie instead of half-regulating them and forcing them to take on sub-prime mortgages. They would have never made such completely idiotic decisions if allowed to operate in the free market without government tinkering. Government, especially liberal government, just can’t resist engaging in social engineering. Forcing Fannie and Freddie to take bad loans so that more poor folks can purchase homes is absolutely the root cause of this disaster. Once the fix was in, all the other bad actors got in on the action.

    Government is almost always the problem and almost never the solution. More government control will always result in more disaster. Always.

  • nobama

    @Edward

    I’m sorry but you’re more misinformed than Doug.

    Freddie and Fannie WERE forced to take bad loans (ask ACORN). They found a vehicle (mortgage backed securities) to make money on them after being forced to take them. That is the second phase of the fraud.

    The third phase of the fraud was the AAA credit ratings applied to these bundled securities by the so-called analysts so they could be sold on the international market. This is where the SEC failed to provide effective oversight. They were junk status from the beginning.

    Reasonable people made no less than 3 attempts at drafting legislation to reign in Freddie and Fannie and at least reduce the downside risk. Those attempts were blocked by certain folks in congress, NOT republicans (Chris Dodd or Barney Frank).

    “The real cause was lack of oversight by the SEC and the last two decades of deregulation (under republican administrations) that allowed banks to gamble with America’s wealth the way they have.”

    How exactly do you calculate that we’ve had two decades of republican administrations? I could have sworn Clinton was President until 2000 (8 years ago by my math). But then again, maybe I’m the one that’s misinformed.

    Deregulation is not the problem. Bad regulation is the problem. Our fantastic government should have completely deregulated Fannie and Freddie instead of half-regulating them and forcing them to take on sub-prime mortgages. They would have never made such completely idiotic decisions if allowed to operate in the free market without government tinkering. Government, especially liberal government, just can’t resist engaging in social engineering. Forcing Fannie and Freddie to take bad loans so that more poor folks can purchase homes is absolutely the root cause of this disaster. Once the fix was in, all the other bad actors got in on the action.

    Government is almost always the problem and almost never the solution. More government control will always result in more disaster. Always.

  • http://www.maxxgraphix.net Maxx

    –D gallagher “Where would the President get the authority to do anything about urban sprawl?”

    Guess what? They did. The feds are buying the loans to your property. If you think you own your home, you don’t unless you don’t owe on it. Even if you owe $1.00 they can take your property as foreclosure or for any other number of reasons. How about just raising taxes so high you can’t afford to live there? Killing jobs by shutting down companies that don’t play ball? Take your pick. America has been sold for 800 billion.

  • http://www.maxxgraphix.net Maxx

    –D gallagher “Where would the President get the authority to do anything about urban sprawl?”

    Guess what? They did. The feds are buying the loans to your property. If you think you own your home, you don’t unless you don’t owe on it. Even if you owe $1.00 they can take your property as foreclosure or for any other number of reasons. How about just raising taxes so high you can’t afford to live there? Killing jobs by shutting down companies that don’t play ball? Take your pick. America has been sold for 800 billion.

  • nobama

    @mpgomatic

    Whether you realize it or not, Amtrak fails you every single day.

    Every day a portion of your tax dollars are used to subsidize Amtrak because they would fail otherwise.

    It’s been going on forever it seems.

    I’d would guess that most tax payers would consider that failure.

  • nobama

    @mpgomatic

    Whether you realize it or not, Amtrak fails you every single day.

    Every day a portion of your tax dollars are used to subsidize Amtrak because they would fail otherwise.

    It’s been going on forever it seems.

    I’d would guess that most tax payers would consider that failure.

  • Hot Head

    If Obama and dems are so concerned about sprawl why did they include billions to build a high speed rail line from LA to Las Vegas. What do they think is going to pop up along the station stops? Don’t believe anything he says. Obama’s only goal is to expand the power and size of government.

  • Hot Head

    If Obama and dems are so concerned about sprawl why did they include billions to build a high speed rail line from LA to Las Vegas. What do they think is going to pop up along the station stops? Don’t believe anything he says. Obama’s only goal is to expand the power and size of government.

  • Doug

    @ Jo,

    So you want to build a vertical city in the middle of hurricane alley? Seriously you are asking for disaster and destruction on a biblical scale.

    @ the people that said I was misinformed about the loan fallout. I was dead on I just did not go into all the details.

  • Doug

    @ Jo,

    So you want to build a vertical city in the middle of hurricane alley? Seriously you are asking for disaster and destruction on a biblical scale.

    @ the people that said I was misinformed about the loan fallout. I was dead on I just did not go into all the details.

  • Mark in Texas

    Jane

    How about if instead of completely changing the way we live to suite Amtrak, we change the way Amtrak works to suit the way we live. By that I mean instead of having Amtrak stations in the crappy, crime infested inner cities which most Americans actively avoid, the train stations are moved to the local transportation nexus, i.e. the airport. That way when you get off the train you can rent a taxi, a car or a hotel room. Or you can change to a plane for part of your trip.

    If you drive from your home to the transportation nexus/airport/train station you can have a pretty good expectation that you car will be there when you return in much the same condition that you left it. If there is enough traffic to justify bus or rail service from the downtown area to the airport/train station, then it makes sense to have it. If not, take a taxi.

    Are you content to see a less polluting and more energy efficient transportation system become more economically viable or must we buy your entire package? You have heard the saying, “Don’t make perfect the enemy of better”, haven’t you?

  • Mark in Texas

    Jane

    How about if instead of completely changing the way we live to suite Amtrak, we change the way Amtrak works to suit the way we live. By that I mean instead of having Amtrak stations in the crappy, crime infested inner cities which most Americans actively avoid, the train stations are moved to the local transportation nexus, i.e. the airport. That way when you get off the train you can rent a taxi, a car or a hotel room. Or you can change to a plane for part of your trip.

    If you drive from your home to the transportation nexus/airport/train station you can have a pretty good expectation that you car will be there when you return in much the same condition that you left it. If there is enough traffic to justify bus or rail service from the downtown area to the airport/train station, then it makes sense to have it. If not, take a taxi.

    Are you content to see a less polluting and more energy efficient transportation system become more economically viable or must we buy your entire package? You have heard the saying, “Don’t make perfect the enemy of better”, haven’t you?

  • Jane

    Mark,

    That’s exactly what I was advocating. Let’s improve the rail system and the cities so people want to use them. Christ, I thought the intention in my reply was obvious.

  • Jane

    Mark,

    That’s exactly what I was advocating. Let’s improve the rail system and the cities so people want to use them. Christ, I thought the intention in my reply was obvious.

  • http://www.grabsomecash.com/ Bill

    Yes……Banks WERE mandated to give out those worthless mortgages. And don’t forget, Obama was the number two person that received funds from all of those beautiful loans.

    Our state has been going back and forth about a high speed rail system for years (Duluth to Minneapolis). Mr. President, could we please have a few billion to build it? Pretty please. lol

    Bill

  • http://www.grabsomecash.com/ Bill

    Yes……Banks WERE mandated to give out those worthless mortgages. And don’t forget, Obama was the number two person that received funds from all of those beautiful loans.

    Our state has been going back and forth about a high speed rail system for years (Duluth to Minneapolis). Mr. President, could we please have a few billion to build it? Pretty please. lol

    Bill

  • Mark in Texas

    Jane

    The main obstacle to moving railroad stations to the airport is always the inner city mayor and government who want to hold onto what little revenue comes from them and they are upset at the loss of prestige and control if they lose yet another resource to the suburbs.

    Do you want to improve the cities so that people will choose to live there? Improve the schools and send more criminals to prison so that the streets are safer. Neither of those things are going to happen as long as Democrats are in political control of cities and Democrats will never fix those things because teachers unions and advocates for alternative sentencing are such important parts of the political coalitions that keep them in office.

    As things stand now, nobody who loves their children sends them to an inner city school if they can afford any alternative. Until you change this basic fact, you will not have families with children and money living there and the cities will not improve.

  • Mark in Texas

    Jane

    The main obstacle to moving railroad stations to the airport is always the inner city mayor and government who want to hold onto what little revenue comes from them and they are upset at the loss of prestige and control if they lose yet another resource to the suburbs.

    Do you want to improve the cities so that people will choose to live there? Improve the schools and send more criminals to prison so that the streets are safer. Neither of those things are going to happen as long as Democrats are in political control of cities and Democrats will never fix those things because teachers unions and advocates for alternative sentencing are such important parts of the political coalitions that keep them in office.

    As things stand now, nobody who loves their children sends them to an inner city school if they can afford any alternative. Until you change this basic fact, you will not have families with children and money living there and the cities will not improve.

  • Mark

    Obama’s message is mixed. He’s spending $800 billion recklessly fast, with no planning or guidelines. Money spent like that will always be totally wasted. At the same time he’s saying we need national-level planning on infrastructure. Of course! Everyone except our stupid politicians knew that since kindergarten! So, why not hold off on the massive spending until there’s a plan in place to use it wisely????

  • Mark

    Obama’s message is mixed. He’s spending $800 billion recklessly fast, with no planning or guidelines. Money spent like that will always be totally wasted. At the same time he’s saying we need national-level planning on infrastructure. Of course! Everyone except our stupid politicians knew that since kindergarten! So, why not hold off on the massive spending until there’s a plan in place to use it wisely????

  • Mark

    Mass transit fails because there is too little of it. In Europe, Japan and Hong Kong they love their mass transit because it gets you around faster than driving. Period. They are happy to leave the the traffic and parking hassles behind.

    It doesn’t work here because it’s rare that it meets anyone’s needs. It just needs to be built out to a point where it can efficiently get you to most places. In order to work, it has to be systems like trains that aren’t slowed down by traffic.

    The arguments about freedom and crime in the cities are off topic. The cities, infrastructure, and everything else in our society are starving because our government is more interested in policing the world, than taking care of business at home. Many other countries have great transportation, free health care and free college — with similar tax rates to ours — all because we give them a free ride on defense.

  • Mark

    Mass transit fails because there is too little of it. In Europe, Japan and Hong Kong they love their mass transit because it gets you around faster than driving. Period. They are happy to leave the the traffic and parking hassles behind.

    It doesn’t work here because it’s rare that it meets anyone’s needs. It just needs to be built out to a point where it can efficiently get you to most places. In order to work, it has to be systems like trains that aren’t slowed down by traffic.

    The arguments about freedom and crime in the cities are off topic. The cities, infrastructure, and everything else in our society are starving because our government is more interested in policing the world, than taking care of business at home. Many other countries have great transportation, free health care and free college — with similar tax rates to ours — all because we give them a free ride on defense.

  • http://crooksshadow.blogspot.com/ Mike H

    Three cheers for a return to Soviet Style block housing!

  • http://crooksshadow.blogspot.com/ Mike H

    Three cheers for a return to Soviet Style block housing!

  • shelley rock

    Sure, we need to update and improve our means of transportation. I would LOVE to see us use more of this, but that in NO way means we should limit ANYONE of their own choice to use an automobile. What we need is MORE affordable low emission vehicles for those us who LIVE too far but WISH to use our cars. Asking us to take away our rights to use a vehicle simply to use public transportation and that alone, is wrong. You will ALWAYS have that “Crack house”. You will never be rid of that. What we need is education and teaching our children to CARE for what we have NOW! You want to help America, then buy AMERICAN! Dont give more money to other countries for the sake of MAKING us use CFL’s laden with cancer causing mercury. Less government, or better yet, MORE reform.

  • shelley rock

    Sure, we need to update and improve our means of transportation. I would LOVE to see us use more of this, but that in NO way means we should limit ANYONE of their own choice to use an automobile. What we need is MORE affordable low emission vehicles for those us who LIVE too far but WISH to use our cars. Asking us to take away our rights to use a vehicle simply to use public transportation and that alone, is wrong. You will ALWAYS have that “Crack house”. You will never be rid of that. What we need is education and teaching our children to CARE for what we have NOW! You want to help America, then buy AMERICAN! Dont give more money to other countries for the sake of MAKING us use CFL’s laden with cancer causing mercury. Less government, or better yet, MORE reform.

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