The Fuel Blending Debate for Veggie-Diesel Cars — Just Do It!
As winter dumps her usual dose of cruelty here in New York’s Hudson Valley, like many drivers of veggie oil-powered cars, I have begun reading up on how to best prepare mine for the cold season.
There is a LOT out there on the web regarding the proper blending of WVO, diesel, kerosene, etc. After several weeks of reading several hundred blogs and forum posts, here is what I’ve deduced: Nobody really knows.
And here’s what else I’ve deduced…it really doesn’t matter. I’ve put every conceivable combination into my single-tank 240D. With the exception of a slight increase in power when using a higher ratio of dyno-diesel, there is no significant difference in performance or MPG.
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Since the cold season kicked into high gear, I’ve been running a 75/25 (WVO/Diesel) mix. Even with temperatures hovering in the single digits, I’ve had no problems with either starting or driving. In fact, the plan is to reduce the amount of diesel in the blend until we reach the point of total failure. And isn’t that really what alternative fuel vehicles are all about? It’s a giant experiment with only positive results—even in failure.
I speak to dozens of would-be WVO converts every day. Most will never take the leap, preferring rather to research the thing to death. Hours wasted trying to decide what blend to use when the temperature drops below 50 F while using such-and-such a filter, blah blah blah. Here’s my advice—just do it. If it’s not for you, go back to your old car. At least you can say you tried. And you’ll have good grease stories to relate at happy hour.
Photo Credit: Jeff Egnaczyk’s Flickr Photostream under a Creative Commons License
Just do it and clog up your systems? What are you a mechanic looking for more business?
The best advice I’ve heard is put your proposed mixture in a jar and see what temperature it gels up at. That’s not endless research, and it’ a lot less risky than what you propose.
I think he meant just take the leap into converting to WVO. I like your jar idea though!
It’s quite possible this fella’s looking to drum up business…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_point
http://extension.missouri.edu/explore/agguides/agengin/g01990.htm
http://www.biodiesel.org/pdf_files/fuelfactsheets/Cold%20Flow.PDF
Please be more specific when discussing the use of SVO. If you are or are not using a “conversion kit” that would provide heat to the oil before being used as a fuel, this is an indispensable piece of information to the article.
If you *are* using a dual tank system with heat, then the winter is no problem at all - it just takes longer to get up to temperature. If you are not using a heating system, then it’s very important not to encourage average drivers to use SVO in any blend. While it’s true that the old Mercedes are very forgiving and can run on just about anything to some degree, many people read these stories and start dumping bacon grease into their TDI’s - which spells disaster!
You say “single tank”, but do you mean a true single tank conversion with heat by electricity, or just a regular car? The way you appear to mix up the concepts of a conversion, blending fuels, and a single tank car make me think that you should have done more research before posting this.
Let’s please make sure that our articles include enough contextual information for everyone to understand what we’re talking about. This particular post is one of the least useful ones I’ve read on Gas 2.0. To say that “nobody really knows” is to dismiss the variety of vehicles and oils out there, which is absurd.
The fact is, the kind of oil you use makes a tremendous difference. As another commenter said, put it in a jar to see what it looks like. If it’s solid at outside temperatures, it will not work in your engine without heat. The more solid it is, the more heat will be required.
Jason Burroughs, DieselGreen Fuels
For three years I’ve fueled my truck with a blend of clear clean dry recycled canola oil and petro diesel fuel, in a climate with temperature extremes from minus thirty to a hundred with no problems whatsoever. There are no problems with VO blends if one correctly dries and filters the recycled veg oil, then mixes in some diesel fuel or kerosene, stores it outside, and uses the clear oil mix off the top of the barrel. The clear oil is mixed with pump diesel to the best blend for that temperature in their vehicle. It takes a little experimentation to find the best blend for each specific vehicle in each different climate, but it’s not difficult for someone who can keep track of details.
If one wants more of a “plug and play” system which accepts almost any clean dry veg oil, then a more expensive dual-fuel-tank-heated ‘SVO conversion’ may be the best option.
More information is available at:
http://www.burnveg.com/forum
Take it it easy guys. I think you missed my point, which is more than understandable, given the current climate of hyper-techno jargon you’ll find regarding what should be a very low-tech issue.
First of all–I’m hardly a mechanic. In fact, I’m on the other end of the handy spectrum. I’m just a guy trying to make a small dent in our current broken system of fuel dependence, and perhaps help a few other people to do the same. If you are looking for charts and graphs, there’s plenty of it our there. I’d prefer rather to share the actual experience that only 20,000+ miles on WVO can offer. However, if you’d like a little background, here you go…
I drive a 1983 Mercedes 240D with 194,000 miles on the odometer. The car, which is my daily driver (50+ miles a day), was fitted with a Lovecraft Single Tank System, which has no tank heating element, but rather a two stage heated filter and pump located under the hood. I can use any combination of veg oil/diesel/biodiesel and have done so as explained in this post. There..that’s as technical as you’ll ever get from me.
My point is simply this–As alt fuel pioneers, perhaps we need to worry a little less about the technical side. I’m not saying don’t do ANY research. Even I read as much as could comprehend before I went veg. I’m simply saying that at some point, you have to either go swimming or stay on the beach with Aunt Nancy. As for me…I’m going to fire up the 240D and get to work. It’s 12 degrees in NY and I’m not exactly sure what’s in the tank. Guess we’ll find out.
I have to admit, you can waste a lot of time worrying about the technical aspects of this. I agree with John Galt. Everyone us just going to have to do some experimentation on their own. But realize that you are a pioneer. The most important thing is to get out there and do this. It is a years from now, and you are still hunched over the kitchen table trying to decide what kind of tank or blend you should have in the car you will someday drive, you need to get serious. I say this because it took me way too long to go veggie. I worried over a lot of insignificant details before taking the plunge.
To John Rarrick:
Actually, your method is really screwing up the viability of this fuel for people who take the time to use it correctly.
Do you ever think about the restaurant owners who cancel their tallow (oil collection) service so that they can give oil to people like you, only to have barrels spilling over after a couple of weeks because the veggie user didn’t have a way to transport and process the oil, much less a reliable car conversion?
Do you ever think about the non-mechanics that read your post and think “Hey, I’ll go buy a converted Mercedes from Joe-Crappy-Converter and be green!”. Then they’re late for work because their car wouldn’t start on sludge, or they’re limited to 30 miles an hour on the freeway because their filter is clogged. Their fuel lines clog and their injection pump seizes.
Did you once, ever, think about how much oil is wasted and improperly disposed of by WVO/SVO users like yourself because it wasn’t the beautiful, clear, top of the barrel stuff that they could use without a proper conversion?
Did you know that transporting vegetable oil requires a permit in California and most other states? Did you know that collecting oil from a restaurant which is engaged in a tallow contract is theft?
Have you considered how much energy you use turning yellow-grease into oil you can put in your car?
I, and many other dedicated WVO/SVO users out there have considered all of these things and spent the time to handle them in a safe, energy efficient, economical, and sustainable way. Until you’re willing to do that, please don’t disseminate bad information
-Colin
Could Colin send me some information on wvo.I am thinking of using this.My car is a 1991 nissan patrol 6 cylinder tractor.I live in Gran Canaria 25 degrees all year so no frost.
I have done a lot of reading on the internet but still know nothing.My e mail is neiljonjo@live.co.uk
Thanks.