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Published on November 28th, 2008 | by Nick Chambers

103

Tesla Says Money Shouldn’t be Diverted to Bailout Car Makers


After the big three Detroit auto makers essentially had their rear-ends handed to them in a bag by Washington politicians last week, they have been scrambling to find ways to get the money they feel they need to stay alive — and their proposed solutions are making Tesla cringe.

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Last year, when the US congress passed the Energy Independence and Security Act (EISA), a $25 billion fund called the “Advanced Technology Vehicle Manufacturing Incentive Program” (ATVM) was established to help new and existing auto makers re-tool their operations to bring next generation car technologies to market quickly. Just this month, the program started accepting applications for funds from interested parties.

But in all the hubbub surrounding the downfall of the established American auto manufacturers, one of the ideas apparently being floated by the CEOs of GM, Ford and Chrysler is to convert some or all of that $25 billion into what amounts to a bailout.

Needless to say, car makers like Tesla aren’t happy about this strategy. Tesla has applied for funding from the ATVM to undertake two projects — an Advanced Battery and Powertrain Manufacturing facility and a manufacturing facility to build their upcoming five-passenger electric sedan known as the “Model S.”

So, in a Thanksgiving blog post, Diarmuid O’Connell, Tesla Motors’ Vice President of Business Development, categorically outlines how shifting any of the ATVM $25 billion into a bailout “would be an enormous mistake,” adding that “the original spirit and intent of the program is critical for the nation’s economic security – and the importance of the program is even greater given the harrowing economic climate.”

I happen to fully agree with Tesla on this one. That money is intended to rectify the problems that got the big three into trouble in the first place — that being their lack of foresight and desire for change. As New York Times contributor Micheline Maynard has said, “Detroit [has] proved yet again that it [has] not understood the psyche of American consumers.”

In other words, Detroit missed the boat and made a fatal strategic calculation that people would continue to buy larger and larger cars without nary a second thought. Does that mean we shouldn’t bail them out at all? Maybe so, maybe not… I’m still not convinced we shouldn’t save the big three in some form.

As Mitch Albom said in a Detroit Free Press article last week, if we let the big three die we let our “national spine collapse. America can’t be a country of lawyers and financial analysts. We have to manufacture. We need that infrastructure. We need those jobs. We need that security. Have [we] forgotten who built equipment during the world wars?”

Nonetheless, I don’t think the ATVM money should be used for anything other than bringing our car technologies into this century. So on this point Tesla is right. I take it a step further though and say that perhaps we do need to save Detroit, but we need to do it in a way that doesn’t penalize the car companies that have been doing it right.

Image Credit: Tesla Motors



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About the Author

Not your traditional car guy.



  • Steve Shurts

    Yeah, If GM, Ford and Chrysler go under, everyone will shell out the $80K+ for a Tesla. Right, boys? Frankly, I’ll go but a ’54 Chevy and convert it to run on CNG or LNG.

  • Steve Shurts

    Yeah, If GM, Ford and Chrysler go under, everyone will shell out the $80K+ for a Tesla. Right, boys? Frankly, I’ll go but a ’54 Chevy and convert it to run on CNG or LNG.

  • Steve Shurts

    Yeah, If GM, Ford and Chrysler go under, everyone will shell out the $80K+ for a Tesla. Right, boys? Frankly, I’ll go but a ’54 Chevy and convert it to run on CNG or LNG.

  • gennette

    I’ve been following what Tesla Motors is doing, and I’d have to say that they are one of the car-makers that is “doing it right.” I have been ranting to all my friends that if the government wants to make an investment (and that’s what the bailout is: an investment) that they should invest in companies like Tesla (and maybe Aptera or ZAP). I want to see them starting to increase production and decrease prices very soon on electric cars. If any of the Big 3 go under or have severe layoffs, it is a prime moment for a smaller company to step in and pick up the newly available mechanically skilled workers.

  • gennette

    I’ve been following what Tesla Motors is doing, and I’d have to say that they are one of the car-makers that is “doing it right.” I have been ranting to all my friends that if the government wants to make an investment (and that’s what the bailout is: an investment) that they should invest in companies like Tesla (and maybe Aptera or ZAP). I want to see them starting to increase production and decrease prices very soon on electric cars. If any of the Big 3 go under or have severe layoffs, it is a prime moment for a smaller company to step in and pick up the newly available mechanically skilled workers.

  • http://angelliftdental.com Dr Jim Hales

    Detroit could have, should have, been producing efficient vehicles for years. Today, chips, air intake, exhaust, carburetion, fuel additives, ignition, systems, etc. are available AFTER MARKET. Why not by the auto makers ? Can’t imagine the number of dollars spent changing little body styles instead of efficiency items. In the ’60s Mondays on the assembly lines were bad news for the poor sole who purchased the vehicles assembled on those days. The factory workers with hangovers from the weekend were absent from their station so that particular function just didn’t get done. Unbelievable that Detroit was so negligent and without character to allow vehicles go off the end of the assembly line knowingly without all the steps having been performed. CRIMINAL. Detroit chooses to underperform Japan in reliability-not because they lack the talent and skills- they lack the character and pride to do their best. Meet the quotas of sales with planned obsolescence and poor quality vehicles to insure “the parts and service business”. I contend that Americans can and should be on top with quality and efficiency. We have produced more vehicles in history than any one else by far. We can and must do it-Go America. sat 29 n0v 08

  • http://angelliftdental.com Dr Jim Hales

    Detroit could have, should have, been producing efficient vehicles for years. Today, chips, air intake, exhaust, carburetion, fuel additives, ignition, systems, etc. are available AFTER MARKET. Why not by the auto makers ? Can’t imagine the number of dollars spent changing little body styles instead of efficiency items. In the ’60s Mondays on the assembly lines were bad news for the poor sole who purchased the vehicles assembled on those days. The factory workers with hangovers from the weekend were absent from their station so that particular function just didn’t get done. Unbelievable that Detroit was so negligent and without character to allow vehicles go off the end of the assembly line knowingly without all the steps having been performed. CRIMINAL. Detroit chooses to underperform Japan in reliability-not because they lack the talent and skills- they lack the character and pride to do their best. Meet the quotas of sales with planned obsolescence and poor quality vehicles to insure “the parts and service business”. I contend that Americans can and should be on top with quality and efficiency. We have produced more vehicles in history than any one else by far. We can and must do it-Go America. sat 29 n0v 08

  • mantis108

    Tesla’s not exactly representative of the future automotive solution for the masses. I think they’re crying more because they’ve had such struggles with finances and production and it burns them to think of other auto manufacturers getting a huge handout (as it does many taxpayers).

  • mantis108

    Tesla’s not exactly representative of the future automotive solution for the masses. I think they’re crying more because they’ve had such struggles with finances and production and it burns them to think of other auto manufacturers getting a huge handout (as it does many taxpayers).

  • mantis108

    Tesla’s not exactly representative of the future automotive solution for the masses. I think they’re crying more because they’ve had such struggles with finances and production and it burns them to think of other auto manufacturers getting a huge handout (as it does many taxpayers).

  • smhudson

    We all have feelings about the errors and production choices of our car industry. President Elect Obama has sent the industry reps. back to their desks to come up with a viable and acceptable plan of how they intend to use any moneys given to them. People from all over this nation are fed up with irresponible business and manufacturing decisions of our corporations. We tend to talk a lot about what we are unhappy about and what we feel corporations and government should do. Please take the time to write to your Congressional representatives (www.writerep.house.gov gives a full listing). Send a copy and/or write to http://www.change.gov, which is the official site of President Elect Obama and V.P. Joe Biden. We, the American taxpayers and workers, are going to be the financiers of any and all bail-outs. It’s time for all of us to seize this moment to start the process of taking responsibility for our democratic way of life by interacting with our elected officials to participate in the changes we want to see in our country.

  • smhudson

    We all have feelings about the errors and production choices of our car industry. President Elect Obama has sent the industry reps. back to their desks to come up with a viable and acceptable plan of how they intend to use any moneys given to them. People from all over this nation are fed up with irresponible business and manufacturing decisions of our corporations. We tend to talk a lot about what we are unhappy about and what we feel corporations and government should do. Please take the time to write to your Congressional representatives (www.writerep.house.gov gives a full listing). Send a copy and/or write to http://www.change.gov, which is the official site of President Elect Obama and V.P. Joe Biden. We, the American taxpayers and workers, are going to be the financiers of any and all bail-outs. It’s time for all of us to seize this moment to start the process of taking responsibility for our democratic way of life by interacting with our elected officials to participate in the changes we want to see in our country.

  • Brian

    Tesla is complaining because the ‘Big 3′ have failed to see the changes in what consumers want, and are being rewarded for it, and taking money that was supposed to be set aside for new technologies for vehicles so they can continue to make big, bloated cars, trucks, and SUVs that a majority of people don’t want.

  • Brian

    Tesla is complaining because the ‘Big 3′ have failed to see the changes in what consumers want, and are being rewarded for it, and taking money that was supposed to be set aside for new technologies for vehicles so they can continue to make big, bloated cars, trucks, and SUVs that a majority of people don’t want.

  • Brian

    Tesla is complaining because the ‘Big 3′ have failed to see the changes in what consumers want, and are being rewarded for it, and taking money that was supposed to be set aside for new technologies for vehicles so they can continue to make big, bloated cars, trucks, and SUVs that a majority of people don’t want.

  • God

    I think the solution to this is very simple. GM, Ford, and Chrysler need to make fuel efficient cars that don’t look like go carts

  • God

    I think the solution to this is very simple. GM, Ford, and Chrysler need to make fuel efficient cars that don’t look like go carts

  • God

    I think the solution to this is very simple. GM, Ford, and Chrysler need to make fuel efficient cars that don’t look like go carts

  • dark5un

    I WOULD have agreed with Tesla’s argument as in theory it is what it is supposed to be used for.

    BUT, in actual terms… If those companies don’t actually get some bailout money, its the less financially secure Americans who are going to suffer in the form of pay cuts or worse, job cuts!

    As the economy is at a downturn, thats when PEOPLE need their jobs the most! Unless Tesla is willing to provide jobs for the ones who get laid off (And since the funding is going to be for R&D, the engineers might get jobs after having to move from their homes but the others in factories and skilled labor area’s who’s jobs are going to be the ones that are at risk the most) are going to be biting dust.

    Better to think this through from the point of the people rather than the big shot companies since the hard times effect THE PEOPLE, much more than the companies.

  • dark5un

    I WOULD have agreed with Tesla’s argument as in theory it is what it is supposed to be used for.

    BUT, in actual terms… If those companies don’t actually get some bailout money, its the less financially secure Americans who are going to suffer in the form of pay cuts or worse, job cuts!

    As the economy is at a downturn, thats when PEOPLE need their jobs the most! Unless Tesla is willing to provide jobs for the ones who get laid off (And since the funding is going to be for R&D, the engineers might get jobs after having to move from their homes but the others in factories and skilled labor area’s who’s jobs are going to be the ones that are at risk the most) are going to be biting dust.

    Better to think this through from the point of the people rather than the big shot companies since the hard times effect THE PEOPLE, much more than the companies.

  • dark5un

    I WOULD have agreed with Tesla’s argument as in theory it is what it is supposed to be used for.

    BUT, in actual terms… If those companies don’t actually get some bailout money, its the less financially secure Americans who are going to suffer in the form of pay cuts or worse, job cuts!

    As the economy is at a downturn, thats when PEOPLE need their jobs the most! Unless Tesla is willing to provide jobs for the ones who get laid off (And since the funding is going to be for R&D, the engineers might get jobs after having to move from their homes but the others in factories and skilled labor area’s who’s jobs are going to be the ones that are at risk the most) are going to be biting dust.

    Better to think this through from the point of the people rather than the big shot companies since the hard times effect THE PEOPLE, much more than the companies.

  • Bruce Johnathan Fick

    People must see the History Channel Documentary “Mad Science” about the life & inventions/patents of Nicklolas Tesla before they’d believe it, but this genius inventor held the first solar energy patent in 1901 and invented the electric induction motor a few years later. The USA could have had an electric car

    100 years ago if they were on their game. Instead we’ve had to endure the World Big Oil Monopoly’s maintenence of an inferior technology made obsolete only 33 years after it was invented. And the Extortion that followed was exactly what Tesla commented on: “If we allow ourselves to spend all our Capital on the burning of fossil fuels, instead of

    constantly renewable cheap electric energy, we will

    ultimately exhaust all our resources, and eventualy bankrupt all the World’s nations.” This month, BMW has

    leased a ltd.electric version of its mini Cooper subcompact which has a 150kw lithium battery, and can travel 137 miles on a charge, in a test lease program.

    At a National Grid cost of $.067 a kw, that would amount to a little over $10 a week for an urban commuter’s budget. I’ll wager that if you asked the average American what THEY wanted produced,it would be a car like this. But then who likes to admit that for the past 100 years people have been treated as though they were orphans too intimidated to complain

    about the bowl of slop shoved in their faces or risk getting nothing at all ?

  • Bruce Johnathan Fick

    People must see the History Channel Documentary “Mad Science” about the life & inventions/patents of Nicklolas Tesla before they’d believe it, but this genius inventor held the first solar energy patent in 1901 and invented the electric induction motor a few years later. The USA could have had an electric car

    100 years ago if they were on their game. Instead we’ve had to endure the World Big Oil Monopoly’s maintenence of an inferior technology made obsolete only 33 years after it was invented. And the Extortion that followed was exactly what Tesla commented on: “If we allow ourselves to spend all our Capital on the burning of fossil fuels, instead of

    constantly renewable cheap electric energy, we will

    ultimately exhaust all our resources, and eventualy bankrupt all the World’s nations.” This month, BMW has

    leased a ltd.electric version of its mini Cooper subcompact which has a 150kw lithium battery, and can travel 137 miles on a charge, in a test lease program.

    At a National Grid cost of $.067 a kw, that would amount to a little over $10 a week for an urban commuter’s budget. I’ll wager that if you asked the average American what THEY wanted produced,it would be a car like this. But then who likes to admit that for the past 100 years people have been treated as though they were orphans too intimidated to complain

    about the bowl of slop shoved in their faces or risk getting nothing at all ?

  • Bruce Johnathan Fick

    People must see the History Channel Documentary “Mad Science” about the life & inventions/patents of Nicklolas Tesla before they’d believe it, but this genius inventor held the first solar energy patent in 1901 and invented the electric induction motor a few years later. The USA could have had an electric car

    100 years ago if they were on their game. Instead we’ve had to endure the World Big Oil Monopoly’s maintenence of an inferior technology made obsolete only 33 years after it was invented. And the Extortion that followed was exactly what Tesla commented on: “If we allow ourselves to spend all our Capital on the burning of fossil fuels, instead of

    constantly renewable cheap electric energy, we will

    ultimately exhaust all our resources, and eventualy bankrupt all the World’s nations.” This month, BMW has

    leased a ltd.electric version of its mini Cooper subcompact which has a 150kw lithium battery, and can travel 137 miles on a charge, in a test lease program.

    At a National Grid cost of $.067 a kw, that would amount to a little over $10 a week for an urban commuter’s budget. I’ll wager that if you asked the average American what THEY wanted produced,it would be a car like this. But then who likes to admit that for the past 100 years people have been treated as though they were orphans too intimidated to complain

    about the bowl of slop shoved in their faces or risk getting nothing at all ?

  • Jeff N

    Let the guys running Tesla take over General Motors and the rest. Let them have the money, but kick out the greedy idiots who took GM over the cliff.

    Fire all management and put these Tesla guys in charge, and give them all the money and backing to take these companies where they should have been. Don’t give money to the current management. Fire their asses.

  • Jeff N

    Let the guys running Tesla take over General Motors and the rest. Let them have the money, but kick out the greedy idiots who took GM over the cliff.

    Fire all management and put these Tesla guys in charge, and give them all the money and backing to take these companies where they should have been. Don’t give money to the current management. Fire their asses.

  • http://www.acaiberrydrink.org/ J. Acai

    People are surprised that this statement would come from Tasla?

    The US auto industry is littered with the corpses of dead auto companies, I say add three more.

  • http://www.acaiberrydrink.org/ J. Acai

    People are surprised that this statement would come from Tasla?

    The US auto industry is littered with the corpses of dead auto companies, I say add three more.

  • http://www.acaiberrydrink.org/ J. Acai

    People are surprised that this statement would come from Tasla?

    The US auto industry is littered with the corpses of dead auto companies, I say add three more.

  • Eric

    I completely understand Tesla’s opinion and agree that taxpayers shouldn’t have to pay to bail out a company that has not had the smarts to make good business decisions. I agree with gennette, that the government should invest in companies that look toward the future, like Tesla, rather than in companies that haven’t been making good business decisions.

    The Big 3 continues to make big SUVs (i.e. Hummer); Chevrolet continues to make the Corvette; Dodge is making sports cars like the Viper and Challenger. And it’s these companies that the government wants to put money into?

  • Eric

    I completely understand Tesla’s opinion and agree that taxpayers shouldn’t have to pay to bail out a company that has not had the smarts to make good business decisions. I agree with gennette, that the government should invest in companies that look toward the future, like Tesla, rather than in companies that haven’t been making good business decisions.

    The Big 3 continues to make big SUVs (i.e. Hummer); Chevrolet continues to make the Corvette; Dodge is making sports cars like the Viper and Challenger. And it’s these companies that the government wants to put money into?

  • Eric

    I completely understand Tesla’s opinion and agree that taxpayers shouldn’t have to pay to bail out a company that has not had the smarts to make good business decisions. I agree with gennette, that the government should invest in companies that look toward the future, like Tesla, rather than in companies that haven’t been making good business decisions.

    The Big 3 continues to make big SUVs (i.e. Hummer); Chevrolet continues to make the Corvette; Dodge is making sports cars like the Viper and Challenger. And it’s these companies that the government wants to put money into?

  • Jason

    “Yeah, If GM, Ford and Chrysler go under, everyone will shell out the $80K+ for a Tesla. Right, boys? ”

    No, but if GM/Ford/Chrysler go under then 100s of small car manufacturers will take their place. Nimble, agile companies that produce cars that people actually want; CNG, PNG, Electric, Steam, who fracking knows. You won’t know because the big-three are currently suppressing innovation; not intentionally but simply through their sheer size and the subsequent barriers to entry.

    What is obvious is that the big-three failed to pick the direction of the market and now they can’t change course quickly enough. The foreign companies are eating them alive. I’ve no sympathy; customers have been saying for years that we want smaller, more efficient cars. But the big-three were focused on those huge short-term profits they got from inefficient monster-sized SUVs.

    Let them fail. There will be turmoil but the good workers will be picked up by cottage industries who will eventually produce desirable cars. In the meantime you can buy cars from companies which weren’t so short-sighted, like Honda. The big-three will fade into history and set an example for what happens when companies become greedy and complacent. The companies that replace them will create better cars with a faster rate of innovation than you’ve seen in 50 years.

    But that will never happen if the big-three get their bailout.

  • Jason

    “Yeah, If GM, Ford and Chrysler go under, everyone will shell out the $80K+ for a Tesla. Right, boys? ”

    No, but if GM/Ford/Chrysler go under then 100s of small car manufacturers will take their place. Nimble, agile companies that produce cars that people actually want; CNG, PNG, Electric, Steam, who fracking knows. You won’t know because the big-three are currently suppressing innovation; not intentionally but simply through their sheer size and the subsequent barriers to entry.

    What is obvious is that the big-three failed to pick the direction of the market and now they can’t change course quickly enough. The foreign companies are eating them alive. I’ve no sympathy; customers have been saying for years that we want smaller, more efficient cars. But the big-three were focused on those huge short-term profits they got from inefficient monster-sized SUVs.

    Let them fail. There will be turmoil but the good workers will be picked up by cottage industries who will eventually produce desirable cars. In the meantime you can buy cars from companies which weren’t so short-sighted, like Honda. The big-three will fade into history and set an example for what happens when companies become greedy and complacent. The companies that replace them will create better cars with a faster rate of innovation than you’ve seen in 50 years.

    But that will never happen if the big-three get their bailout.

  • Jason

    “Yeah, If GM, Ford and Chrysler go under, everyone will shell out the $80K+ for a Tesla. Right, boys? ”

    No, but if GM/Ford/Chrysler go under then 100s of small car manufacturers will take their place. Nimble, agile companies that produce cars that people actually want; CNG, PNG, Electric, Steam, who fracking knows. You won’t know because the big-three are currently suppressing innovation; not intentionally but simply through their sheer size and the subsequent barriers to entry.

    What is obvious is that the big-three failed to pick the direction of the market and now they can’t change course quickly enough. The foreign companies are eating them alive. I’ve no sympathy; customers have been saying for years that we want smaller, more efficient cars. But the big-three were focused on those huge short-term profits they got from inefficient monster-sized SUVs.

    Let them fail. There will be turmoil but the good workers will be picked up by cottage industries who will eventually produce desirable cars. In the meantime you can buy cars from companies which weren’t so short-sighted, like Honda. The big-three will fade into history and set an example for what happens when companies become greedy and complacent. The companies that replace them will create better cars with a faster rate of innovation than you’ve seen in 50 years.

    But that will never happen if the big-three get their bailout.

  • Jason

    “Yeah, If GM, Ford and Chrysler go under, everyone will shell out the $80K+ for a Tesla. Right, boys? ”

    No, but if GM/Ford/Chrysler go under then 100s of small car manufacturers will take their place. Nimble, agile companies that produce cars that people actually want; CNG, PNG, Electric, Steam, who fracking knows. You won’t know because the big-three are currently suppressing innovation; not intentionally but simply through their sheer size and the subsequent barriers to entry.

    What is obvious is that the big-three failed to pick the direction of the market and now they can’t change course quickly enough. The foreign companies are eating them alive. I’ve no sympathy; customers have been saying for years that we want smaller, more efficient cars. But the big-three were focused on those huge short-term profits they got from inefficient monster-sized SUVs.

    Let them fail. There will be turmoil but the good workers will be picked up by cottage industries who will eventually produce desirable cars. In the meantime you can buy cars from companies which weren’t so short-sighted, like Honda. The big-three will fade into history and set an example for what happens when companies become greedy and complacent. The companies that replace them will create better cars with a faster rate of innovation than you’ve seen in 50 years.

    But that will never happen if the big-three get their bailout.

  • http://www.hmtk.com HMTKSteve

    The Big Three have to get out from under their horrible labor agreements. Each car has an added cost of thousands of dollars to pay for their union benefits and retirees. Other companies do not have to pay that added expense.

    The Big Three should go into bankruptcy and restructure. It works for the airlines every few years so why not them?

  • http://www.hmtk.com HMTKSteve

    The Big Three have to get out from under their horrible labor agreements. Each car has an added cost of thousands of dollars to pay for their union benefits and retirees. Other companies do not have to pay that added expense.

    The Big Three should go into bankruptcy and restructure. It works for the airlines every few years so why not them?

  • http://www.hmtk.com HMTKSteve

    The Big Three have to get out from under their horrible labor agreements. Each car has an added cost of thousands of dollars to pay for their union benefits and retirees. Other companies do not have to pay that added expense.

    The Big Three should go into bankruptcy and restructure. It works for the airlines every few years so why not them?

  • ChuckL

    Forget what the super liberal press is feeding you and do some research on just why the former “Big Three” have had the problems that they now have. Among these problems was the government’s support for one union to supply labor for all three auto companies, which gave the unions the ability to strike one company while working at the other two to maintain “strike funds”. At the same time the auto companies were not allowed to present a unified bargaining entity by locking out the employees of the non-struck companies even though there was not labor contract in force. Doing so was determined to be an illegal “CARTEL”. The result was exceptionally high benefits in both wages and in health care provisions; that means very high costs. At the same time the auto companies had to bargain away jobs that had become obsolete. They could not just eliminate these jobs. The solution was effectively a wage for life, which cost is incorporated into the cars that they build now.

    Government regulations designed to prevent idiots from committing suicide with their cars created more and more “safety” features, while the requirements to learn how to drive before you were allowed to drive legally continued to drop. Then the government decided to assist the insurance companies with loss control by requiring that cars became damage proof in “small” collisions. The result was again more weight and even lower fuel mileage. And don’t try to tell me that high performance caused the poor fuel mileage. My ’56 Chevy turned the 1/4 mile in 14 seconds at just under 100 mph. It only got 17 MPG, but then it was among the lightest of American cars at the time. I actually got slightly better mileage than was normal for Chevrolets of the time. The mileage came without benefit of overdrive or a low numerical axle ratio.

    Don’t get me wrong. The auto companies made enough mistakes on their own, but many of them were a result of the mostly Democrat Congresses of the time. These same Congressmen are the ones who created our “safety requirements” that prevent the great cars that these American car companies are building overseas from being imported into the U.S.

    The U.S. auto companies need to be bailed out, but the bail out should be from the horrible labor contracts that exist in Detroit, and replacement with the labor contracts that exist in the foreign auto companies elsewhere in the U.S.

    The problem can not be solved while maintaining the existing labor contracts and method of negotiation.

  • ChuckL

    Forget what the super liberal press is feeding you and do some research on just why the former “Big Three” have had the problems that they now have. Among these problems was the government’s support for one union to supply labor for all three auto companies, which gave the unions the ability to strike one company while working at the other two to maintain “strike funds”. At the same time the auto companies were not allowed to present a unified bargaining entity by locking out the employees of the non-struck companies even though there was not labor contract in force. Doing so was determined to be an illegal “CARTEL”. The result was exceptionally high benefits in both wages and in health care provisions; that means very high costs. At the same time the auto companies had to bargain away jobs that had become obsolete. They could not just eliminate these jobs. The solution was effectively a wage for life, which cost is incorporated into the cars that they build now.

    Government regulations designed to prevent idiots from committing suicide with their cars created more and more “safety” features, while the requirements to learn how to drive before you were allowed to drive legally continued to drop. Then the government decided to assist the insurance companies with loss control by requiring that cars became damage proof in “small” collisions. The result was again more weight and even lower fuel mileage. And don’t try to tell me that high performance caused the poor fuel mileage. My ’56 Chevy turned the 1/4 mile in 14 seconds at just under 100 mph. It only got 17 MPG, but then it was among the lightest of American cars at the time. I actually got slightly better mileage than was normal for Chevrolets of the time. The mileage came without benefit of overdrive or a low numerical axle ratio.

    Don’t get me wrong. The auto companies made enough mistakes on their own, but many of them were a result of the mostly Democrat Congresses of the time. These same Congressmen are the ones who created our “safety requirements” that prevent the great cars that these American car companies are building overseas from being imported into the U.S.

    The U.S. auto companies need to be bailed out, but the bail out should be from the horrible labor contracts that exist in Detroit, and replacement with the labor contracts that exist in the foreign auto companies elsewhere in the U.S.

    The problem can not be solved while maintaining the existing labor contracts and method of negotiation.

  • ChuckL

    Forget what the super liberal press is feeding you and do some research on just why the former “Big Three” have had the problems that they now have. Among these problems was the government’s support for one union to supply labor for all three auto companies, which gave the unions the ability to strike one company while working at the other two to maintain “strike funds”. At the same time the auto companies were not allowed to present a unified bargaining entity by locking out the employees of the non-struck companies even though there was not labor contract in force. Doing so was determined to be an illegal “CARTEL”. The result was exceptionally high benefits in both wages and in health care provisions; that means very high costs. At the same time the auto companies had to bargain away jobs that had become obsolete. They could not just eliminate these jobs. The solution was effectively a wage for life, which cost is incorporated into the cars that they build now.

    Government regulations designed to prevent idiots from committing suicide with their cars created more and more “safety” features, while the requirements to learn how to drive before you were allowed to drive legally continued to drop. Then the government decided to assist the insurance companies with loss control by requiring that cars became damage proof in “small” collisions. The result was again more weight and even lower fuel mileage. And don’t try to tell me that high performance caused the poor fuel mileage. My ’56 Chevy turned the 1/4 mile in 14 seconds at just under 100 mph. It only got 17 MPG, but then it was among the lightest of American cars at the time. I actually got slightly better mileage than was normal for Chevrolets of the time. The mileage came without benefit of overdrive or a low numerical axle ratio.

    Don’t get me wrong. The auto companies made enough mistakes on their own, but many of them were a result of the mostly Democrat Congresses of the time. These same Congressmen are the ones who created our “safety requirements” that prevent the great cars that these American car companies are building overseas from being imported into the U.S.

    The U.S. auto companies need to be bailed out, but the bail out should be from the horrible labor contracts that exist in Detroit, and replacement with the labor contracts that exist in the foreign auto companies elsewhere in the U.S.

    The problem can not be solved while maintaining the existing labor contracts and method of negotiation.

  • Shalindra

    A couple weeks ago, an article popped up regarding the Honda plant that was manufacturing in the same part of Michigan as the other big 3 plants. The difference is that Honda was doing well, their workers payed well, and actually gave that small town an economic boom soon after that plant opened. The big 3 have not taken a page from Honda or any other successful automaker. Americans are becoming more and more aware that we can’t survive on oil alone, we need to look towards the future. Unfortunately, it took the big 3 too long to realize this, if that.

  • Shalindra

    A couple weeks ago, an article popped up regarding the Honda plant that was manufacturing in the same part of Michigan as the other big 3 plants. The difference is that Honda was doing well, their workers payed well, and actually gave that small town an economic boom soon after that plant opened. The big 3 have not taken a page from Honda or any other successful automaker. Americans are becoming more and more aware that we can’t survive on oil alone, we need to look towards the future. Unfortunately, it took the big 3 too long to realize this, if that.

  • The Voice of Reason

    This isn’t as complicated as everyone makes it seem. Its very simple actually. Let the big three fail. And worry not, the other big 3 will take over. So, let GM, Ford and Chrysler fail, and Honda, Toyota and and the rest of the world will take over. All these companies manufacture in America, they pay US workers a great salary and… wait for it… they make much much better cars.

    Yes if the big 3 fail it will be hard for a bit, but people still need cars and the other companies will be happy to fill in the gap.

    See… simple!

  • The Voice of Reason

    This isn’t as complicated as everyone makes it seem. Its very simple actually. Let the big three fail. And worry not, the other big 3 will take over. So, let GM, Ford and Chrysler fail, and Honda, Toyota and and the rest of the world will take over. All these companies manufacture in America, they pay US workers a great salary and… wait for it… they make much much better cars.

    Yes if the big 3 fail it will be hard for a bit, but people still need cars and the other companies will be happy to fill in the gap.

    See… simple!

  • http://none.webpage.com Jason Barlow

    Why hasn’t anyone offered this as an idea:

    – bail GM, Ford, Chysler out ONLY that they go under the ownership of Telsa (other like them)

    – Allow a proper coordination with Electricty Sector to bring all of these industries into sync

    – And Telsa/others would continue to win in that business cost reduction

    If there’s problems with many issues that ARE related – then integration / sysmatic re-coordination will give a Win/Win/Win for all.

  • http://none.webpage.com Jason Barlow

    Why hasn’t anyone offered this as an idea:

    – bail GM, Ford, Chysler out ONLY that they go under the ownership of Telsa (other like them)

    – Allow a proper coordination with Electricty Sector to bring all of these industries into sync

    – And Telsa/others would continue to win in that business cost reduction

    If there’s problems with many issues that ARE related – then integration / sysmatic re-coordination will give a Win/Win/Win for all.

  • http://none.webpage.com Jason Barlow

    Why hasn’t anyone offered this as an idea:

    – bail GM, Ford, Chysler out ONLY that they go under the ownership of Telsa (other like them)

    – Allow a proper coordination with Electricty Sector to bring all of these industries into sync

    – And Telsa/others would continue to win in that business cost reduction

    If there’s problems with many issues that ARE related – then integration / sysmatic re-coordination will give a Win/Win/Win for all.

  • http://none.webpage.com Jason Barlow

    Why hasn’t anyone offered this as an idea:

    – bail GM, Ford, Chysler out ONLY that they go under the ownership of Telsa (other like them)

    – Allow a proper coordination with Electricty Sector to bring all of these industries into sync

    – And Telsa/others would continue to win in that business cost reduction

    If there’s problems with many issues that ARE related – then integration / sysmatic re-coordination will give a Win/Win/Win for all.

  • Dennis

    My next automobile purchase will be electric. After that, I will never buy gas for an automobile again. I’m tired of oil companies ripping off the consumer.

  • Dennis

    My next automobile purchase will be electric. After that, I will never buy gas for an automobile again. I’m tired of oil companies ripping off the consumer.

  • Dennis

    My next automobile purchase will be electric. After that, I will never buy gas for an automobile again. I’m tired of oil companies ripping off the consumer.

  • Michael Bryant

    the only problem with electric that there is no cheap car that can go high way speed.

  • Michael Bryant

    the only problem with electric that there is no cheap car that can go high way speed.

  • Michael Bryant

    the only problem with electric that there is no cheap car that can go high way speed.

  • http://www.onelectriccars.com/ John, On Electric Cars

    Just let them flounder and let the clean tech companies snatch up their assets. German SolarWorld already put in a bid to buy Opel, a GM subsidiary: http://www.onelectriccars.com/solar-company-eying-gm-prey/500/

  • http://www.onelectriccars.com/ John, On Electric Cars

    Just let them flounder and let the clean tech companies snatch up their assets. German SolarWorld already put in a bid to buy Opel, a GM subsidiary: http://www.onelectriccars.com/solar-company-eying-gm-prey/500/

  • http://www.onelectriccars.com/ John, On Electric Cars

    Just let them flounder and let the clean tech companies snatch up their assets. German SolarWorld already put in a bid to buy Opel, a GM subsidiary: http://www.onelectriccars.com/solar-company-eying-gm-prey/500/

  • http://cosmeticsurgerytruth.blogspot.com/ drdisaia

    Tesla is complaining because they are in poor financial shape as well and don’t want to see their competitors bailed out. It is a shame as I would like to see an electric car make it.

  • http://cosmeticsurgerytruth.blogspot.com/ drdisaia

    Tesla is complaining because they are in poor financial shape as well and don’t want to see their competitors bailed out. It is a shame as I would like to see an electric car make it.

  • http://cosmeticsurgerytruth.blogspot.com/ drdisaia

    Tesla is complaining because they are in poor financial shape as well and don’t want to see their competitors bailed out. It is a shame as I would like to see an electric car make it.

  • Uyraell

    The Error in thinking is as follows :

    Sure electric and hybrid vehicles are a reasonable alternative.

    BUT, an even better alternative exists, namely, closed cycle hydrogen peroxide engines.

    The technology existed at the end of World War 2, and was initially developed for torpedo propulsion. It employed a V8 motor that consumed it’s own exhaust gasses, and propelled the torpedo at 40 knots for over 10,000 yards. The US Navy captured the motor (Jumo 48 was it’s nomenclature at that point) and it, and the associated technology promptly disappeared from public view (it is thought because the then new Nuclear Technology didn’t need any rivals), along with practically every application and example of Hydrogen Peroxide Technology.

    Given the technological ability these days, manufacturing and maintaining such propulsion systems for motor vehicles would present no more of a difficulty or challenge than the modern electric/ electric-plugin-hybrid technologies.

    Yet, Hydrogen Peroxide Technology remains ignored, and is also a good developmental stepping stone to advance and employ while the hybrid, plugin hybrid, and electrical technologies mature. In combination as an integral part of a plugin hybrid system that Does Not rely on fossil fuels, Hydrogen Peroxide Technology presents and ideal opportunity, which remains utterly unexploited, to the future cost of us all.

  • Uyraell

    The Error in thinking is as follows :

    Sure electric and hybrid vehicles are a reasonable alternative.

    BUT, an even better alternative exists, namely, closed cycle hydrogen peroxide engines.

    The technology existed at the end of World War 2, and was initially developed for torpedo propulsion. It employed a V8 motor that consumed it’s own exhaust gasses, and propelled the torpedo at 40 knots for over 10,000 yards. The US Navy captured the motor (Jumo 48 was it’s nomenclature at that point) and it, and the associated technology promptly disappeared from public view (it is thought because the then new Nuclear Technology didn’t need any rivals), along with practically every application and example of Hydrogen Peroxide Technology.

    Given the technological ability these days, manufacturing and maintaining such propulsion systems for motor vehicles would present no more of a difficulty or challenge than the modern electric/ electric-plugin-hybrid technologies.

    Yet, Hydrogen Peroxide Technology remains ignored, and is also a good developmental stepping stone to advance and employ while the hybrid, plugin hybrid, and electrical technologies mature. In combination as an integral part of a plugin hybrid system that Does Not rely on fossil fuels, Hydrogen Peroxide Technology presents and ideal opportunity, which remains utterly unexploited, to the future cost of us all.

  • Uyraell

    The Error in thinking is as follows :

    Sure electric and hybrid vehicles are a reasonable alternative.

    BUT, an even better alternative exists, namely, closed cycle hydrogen peroxide engines.

    The technology existed at the end of World War 2, and was initially developed for torpedo propulsion. It employed a V8 motor that consumed it’s own exhaust gasses, and propelled the torpedo at 40 knots for over 10,000 yards. The US Navy captured the motor (Jumo 48 was it’s nomenclature at that point) and it, and the associated technology promptly disappeared from public view (it is thought because the then new Nuclear Technology didn’t need any rivals), along with practically every application and example of Hydrogen Peroxide Technology.

    Given the technological ability these days, manufacturing and maintaining such propulsion systems for motor vehicles would present no more of a difficulty or challenge than the modern electric/ electric-plugin-hybrid technologies.

    Yet, Hydrogen Peroxide Technology remains ignored, and is also a good developmental stepping stone to advance and employ while the hybrid, plugin hybrid, and electrical technologies mature. In combination as an integral part of a plugin hybrid system that Does Not rely on fossil fuels, Hydrogen Peroxide Technology presents and ideal opportunity, which remains utterly unexploited, to the future cost of us all.

  • Shedrick mask

    Tesla shouldn’t talk they’ve already been in trouble once this year.

    Taken from another site on 10/16

    “Tesla notifies Detroit workers already-in-the-know they were laid off two days ago…today! In a sign of what this new Financiapocalypse might bring, employees in the Metro Detroit branch of electric car maker Tesla Motors were laid off via a blog post. Yesterday, we reported that Tesla would be cutting back and reorganizing, which included shutting down the office in Rochester Hills, near Detroit. Unfortunately, no one told the employees in Rochester Hills. Some of them logged on to find that they were now, according to their own website, obsolete. But it gets worse.

    We’re hearing that approximately 90 Tesla employees, or 90% of the Detroit office, was simply let go, and the remaining employees have to make their way to the San Carlos headquarters with no moving costs covered, no increase in salary and no help getting rid of their old homes.”

  • Shedrick mask

    Tesla shouldn’t talk they’ve already been in trouble once this year.

    Taken from another site on 10/16

    “Tesla notifies Detroit workers already-in-the-know they were laid off two days ago…today! In a sign of what this new Financiapocalypse might bring, employees in the Metro Detroit branch of electric car maker Tesla Motors were laid off via a blog post. Yesterday, we reported that Tesla would be cutting back and reorganizing, which included shutting down the office in Rochester Hills, near Detroit. Unfortunately, no one told the employees in Rochester Hills. Some of them logged on to find that they were now, according to their own website, obsolete. But it gets worse.

    We’re hearing that approximately 90 Tesla employees, or 90% of the Detroit office, was simply let go, and the remaining employees have to make their way to the San Carlos headquarters with no moving costs covered, no increase in salary and no help getting rid of their old homes.”

  • Shedrick mask

    Tesla shouldn’t talk they’ve already been in trouble once this year.

    Taken from another site on 10/16

    “Tesla notifies Detroit workers already-in-the-know they were laid off two days ago…today! In a sign of what this new Financiapocalypse might bring, employees in the Metro Detroit branch of electric car maker Tesla Motors were laid off via a blog post. Yesterday, we reported that Tesla would be cutting back and reorganizing, which included shutting down the office in Rochester Hills, near Detroit. Unfortunately, no one told the employees in Rochester Hills. Some of them logged on to find that they were now, according to their own website, obsolete. But it gets worse.

    We’re hearing that approximately 90 Tesla employees, or 90% of the Detroit office, was simply let go, and the remaining employees have to make their way to the San Carlos headquarters with no moving costs covered, no increase in salary and no help getting rid of their old homes.”

  • http://www.artformfunction.com Michael

    The author implies that the big 3 made a wrong turn to get where they are now, and I think that is being too generous. The big 3 have made dozens of wrong turns (you can argue that they have been off course for decades), which is why foreign companies have been chipping away at their marketshare since the 60’s.

    The fact is that the leadership at these companies is incompetent (at least compared to many of their competitors) and as a condition of any bailout the leadership should be replaced and the taxpayers should become stockholders in the companies. Being part owner in a company is good incentive to buy that company’s products! When the companies recover they can buy back their stock.

    In any case, the companies that are actually innovating like Aptera, Tesla and AC Propulsion should be getting at least as much support as these giant losers.

    On another note, perhaps companies that grow too large to let fail should be required to buy some sort of insurance to bail them out in case of catastrophic management or malfeasance, rather than having the taxpayers do it.

  • http://www.artformfunction.com Michael

    The author implies that the big 3 made a wrong turn to get where they are now, and I think that is being too generous. The big 3 have made dozens of wrong turns (you can argue that they have been off course for decades), which is why foreign companies have been chipping away at their marketshare since the 60’s.

    The fact is that the leadership at these companies is incompetent (at least compared to many of their competitors) and as a condition of any bailout the leadership should be replaced and the taxpayers should become stockholders in the companies. Being part owner in a company is good incentive to buy that company’s products! When the companies recover they can buy back their stock.

    In any case, the companies that are actually innovating like Aptera, Tesla and AC Propulsion should be getting at least as much support as these giant losers.

    On another note, perhaps companies that grow too large to let fail should be required to buy some sort of insurance to bail them out in case of catastrophic management or malfeasance, rather than having the taxpayers do it.

  • http://www.ampmotorworks.com Mike

    As a component manufacturer, we make electric powertrains, currently converting the GM Saturn Sky to all-electric power. Our prototype is running on the road now, and we are filling orders. We believe this technology is one solution to advancing automotive thinking, for delivery of all-electric vehicles in 2009.

    http://www.ampmotorworks.com

  • http://www.ampmotorworks.com Mike

    As a component manufacturer, we make electric powertrains, currently converting the GM Saturn Sky to all-electric power. Our prototype is running on the road now, and we are filling orders. We believe this technology is one solution to advancing automotive thinking, for delivery of all-electric vehicles in 2009.

    http://www.ampmotorworks.com

  • http://www.ampmotorworks.com Mike

    As a component manufacturer, we make electric powertrains, currently converting the GM Saturn Sky to all-electric power. Our prototype is running on the road now, and we are filling orders. We believe this technology is one solution to advancing automotive thinking, for delivery of all-electric vehicles in 2009.

    http://www.ampmotorworks.com

  • Dan B

    Folks, especially Jeff N who writes we should put the guys from Tesla in charge,

    Uh… which guys? The fact is that they are on their 4th CEO in 12 months. Why? Because no one can make a go of Tesla, so far. And they have basically admitted that the idea of a bunch of non-auto industry people creating a car company is a disasterous plan. They are scramblig to hire industry people to make the thing work.

    They have burned through millions in investment capital and written a lot of press releases. Yet they have not produced and sold a thing. They have not employed millions of Americans for more than 100 years like GM and Ford.

    And in-fact, Ford has “fired their asses” as you suggest by bringing in CEO Alan Mullaly who spent 37 years at Boeing and is credited with saving that company with a dramatic post 9-11 restructuring. He has been fixing Ford. He has been executing a plan and it has much support from experts.

    Now that the financial crisis has blown up every automakers plan, including Toyota, Honda, Nissan and the rest, industry “experts” are attacking with no understanding of the business.

  • Dan B

    Folks, especially Jeff N who writes we should put the guys from Tesla in charge,

    Uh… which guys? The fact is that they are on their 4th CEO in 12 months. Why? Because no one can make a go of Tesla, so far. And they have basically admitted that the idea of a bunch of non-auto industry people creating a car company is a disasterous plan. They are scramblig to hire industry people to make the thing work.

    They have burned through millions in investment capital and written a lot of press releases. Yet they have not produced and sold a thing. They have not employed millions of Americans for more than 100 years like GM and Ford.

    And in-fact, Ford has “fired their asses” as you suggest by bringing in CEO Alan Mullaly who spent 37 years at Boeing and is credited with saving that company with a dramatic post 9-11 restructuring. He has been fixing Ford. He has been executing a plan and it has much support from experts.

    Now that the financial crisis has blown up every automakers plan, including Toyota, Honda, Nissan and the rest, industry “experts” are attacking with no understanding of the business.

  • Dan B

    Folks, especially Jeff N who writes we should put the guys from Tesla in charge,

    Uh… which guys? The fact is that they are on their 4th CEO in 12 months. Why? Because no one can make a go of Tesla, so far. And they have basically admitted that the idea of a bunch of non-auto industry people creating a car company is a disasterous plan. They are scramblig to hire industry people to make the thing work.

    They have burned through millions in investment capital and written a lot of press releases. Yet they have not produced and sold a thing. They have not employed millions of Americans for more than 100 years like GM and Ford.

    And in-fact, Ford has “fired their asses” as you suggest by bringing in CEO Alan Mullaly who spent 37 years at Boeing and is credited with saving that company with a dramatic post 9-11 restructuring. He has been fixing Ford. He has been executing a plan and it has much support from experts.

    Now that the financial crisis has blown up every automakers plan, including Toyota, Honda, Nissan and the rest, industry “experts” are attacking with no understanding of the business.

  • Dan B

    Folks, especially Jeff N who writes we should put the guys from Tesla in charge,

    Uh… which guys? The fact is that they are on their 4th CEO in 12 months. Why? Because no one can make a go of Tesla, so far. And they have basically admitted that the idea of a bunch of non-auto industry people creating a car company is a disasterous plan. They are scramblig to hire industry people to make the thing work.

    They have burned through millions in investment capital and written a lot of press releases. Yet they have not produced and sold a thing. They have not employed millions of Americans for more than 100 years like GM and Ford.

    And in-fact, Ford has “fired their asses” as you suggest by bringing in CEO Alan Mullaly who spent 37 years at Boeing and is credited with saving that company with a dramatic post 9-11 restructuring. He has been fixing Ford. He has been executing a plan and it has much support from experts.

    Now that the financial crisis has blown up every automakers plan, including Toyota, Honda, Nissan and the rest, industry “experts” are attacking with no understanding of the business.

  • http://professorsmartass.com Professor Smartass

    We should compromise and put the Tesla and other electric car company execs in charge of Detroit.

  • http://professorsmartass.com Professor Smartass

    We should compromise and put the Tesla and other electric car company execs in charge of Detroit.

  • Steve Shurts

    Uyraell talks about the closed cycle hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) cycle engine. The technology for this engine is not secret or hidden away. The problem is that this technology has very limited application. A torpedo that is running on a carbon-based fuel needs a source of oxygen to be able to run. Unfortunately, a torpedo runs under water and therefore has a hard time coming up with the needed oxygen. H2O2 was used because it could be run through a catalyst and would quickly break down into H20 and O2, which was used used to burn the fuel. Liquid fueled rocket motors have used this technology since before WWII, hardly secreted away.

    Today, torpedoes are, for the most part, steam, electric, or exotic carbon-fuel based. Oxidizers have moved beyond H2O2, using more efficient oxidizers.

  • Steve Shurts

    Uyraell talks about the closed cycle hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) cycle engine. The technology for this engine is not secret or hidden away. The problem is that this technology has very limited application. A torpedo that is running on a carbon-based fuel needs a source of oxygen to be able to run. Unfortunately, a torpedo runs under water and therefore has a hard time coming up with the needed oxygen. H2O2 was used because it could be run through a catalyst and would quickly break down into H20 and O2, which was used used to burn the fuel. Liquid fueled rocket motors have used this technology since before WWII, hardly secreted away.

    Today, torpedoes are, for the most part, steam, electric, or exotic carbon-fuel based. Oxidizers have moved beyond H2O2, using more efficient oxidizers.

  • Steve Shurts

    Uyraell talks about the closed cycle hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) cycle engine. The technology for this engine is not secret or hidden away. The problem is that this technology has very limited application. A torpedo that is running on a carbon-based fuel needs a source of oxygen to be able to run. Unfortunately, a torpedo runs under water and therefore has a hard time coming up with the needed oxygen. H2O2 was used because it could be run through a catalyst and would quickly break down into H20 and O2, which was used used to burn the fuel. Liquid fueled rocket motors have used this technology since before WWII, hardly secreted away.

    Today, torpedoes are, for the most part, steam, electric, or exotic carbon-fuel based. Oxidizers have moved beyond H2O2, using more efficient oxidizers.

  • Doug

    Wow put Tesla’s execs in charge! No flippin way. Come on people think before you write. These guys are whining because there is a very good chance they will go under without the AVTM money. They seem to have a good product, but they have not even produced the vehicles they pre-sold. As for the big 3 any bailout that does not force the dissolution of the UAW is a farce and a temporary stop gap. As long as they are tied to the lead balloon they will fail. Force the big 3 to go chapter 11, eliminate all labor contracts, rehire all the workers that actually want a job at the same rate as the big Japanese 3, and retool their plants to make more efficient and reliable cars. As to the AVTM funds, I really feel they should stay separate and used only for alternative fuel source vehicles. EV’s, bio-fuels, and fuel cell companies need all the help they can get right now.

  • Doug

    Wow put Tesla’s execs in charge! No flippin way. Come on people think before you write. These guys are whining because there is a very good chance they will go under without the AVTM money. They seem to have a good product, but they have not even produced the vehicles they pre-sold. As for the big 3 any bailout that does not force the dissolution of the UAW is a farce and a temporary stop gap. As long as they are tied to the lead balloon they will fail. Force the big 3 to go chapter 11, eliminate all labor contracts, rehire all the workers that actually want a job at the same rate as the big Japanese 3, and retool their plants to make more efficient and reliable cars. As to the AVTM funds, I really feel they should stay separate and used only for alternative fuel source vehicles. EV’s, bio-fuels, and fuel cell companies need all the help they can get right now.

  • Doug

    Wow put Tesla’s execs in charge! No flippin way. Come on people think before you write. These guys are whining because there is a very good chance they will go under without the AVTM money. They seem to have a good product, but they have not even produced the vehicles they pre-sold. As for the big 3 any bailout that does not force the dissolution of the UAW is a farce and a temporary stop gap. As long as they are tied to the lead balloon they will fail. Force the big 3 to go chapter 11, eliminate all labor contracts, rehire all the workers that actually want a job at the same rate as the big Japanese 3, and retool their plants to make more efficient and reliable cars. As to the AVTM funds, I really feel they should stay separate and used only for alternative fuel source vehicles. EV’s, bio-fuels, and fuel cell companies need all the help they can get right now.

  • Doug

    Wow put Tesla’s execs in charge! No flippin way. Come on people think before you write. These guys are whining because there is a very good chance they will go under without the AVTM money. They seem to have a good product, but they have not even produced the vehicles they pre-sold. As for the big 3 any bailout that does not force the dissolution of the UAW is a farce and a temporary stop gap. As long as they are tied to the lead balloon they will fail. Force the big 3 to go chapter 11, eliminate all labor contracts, rehire all the workers that actually want a job at the same rate as the big Japanese 3, and retool their plants to make more efficient and reliable cars. As to the AVTM funds, I really feel they should stay separate and used only for alternative fuel source vehicles. EV’s, bio-fuels, and fuel cell companies need all the help they can get right now.

  • A Edwards

    PLease do not give good money to GM. They will waste it and be broke in a year. Do not bail out GM, etc.

  • A Edwards

    PLease do not give good money to GM. They will waste it and be broke in a year. Do not bail out GM, etc.

  • A Edwards

    PLease do not give good money to GM. They will waste it and be broke in a year. Do not bail out GM, etc.

  • http://none Horst9

    Tesla has taken a triple hit. They can’t launch an IPO to build capital, hence the governor’s free rent deal is sort of moot without said capital, buyers probably can’t finance the cars anyway, Lehmann Bros. pissed away a great deal of local municipal investments in this state and the legislature spends most its time in anger management…

    And then we have those boys from Detroit wandering around a cow pen searching for Liberace’s piano? Theses are the same folks that thought up the fine print on your warranty. Mao might have been right when he decided to send all the managers back to the rice fields for a little ‘quiet time.’

  • Royce

    No one forced anyone to buy big SUVs. You bought them because you wanted them. So if anyone is to blame it is YOU. With gas prices falling NO ONE will be standing in line to buy more expensive electric cars. People and investors will soon be yelling at the US automakes for NOT GIVING THEM THE CARS THEY WANT, which is MORE BIG SUVs and TRUCKS.

  • Royce

    No one forced anyone to buy big SUVs. You bought them because you wanted them. So if anyone is to blame it is YOU. With gas prices falling NO ONE will be standing in line to buy more expensive electric cars. People and investors will soon be yelling at the US automakes for NOT GIVING THEM THE CARS THEY WANT, which is MORE BIG SUVs and TRUCKS.

  • Royce

    No one forced anyone to buy big SUVs. You bought them because you wanted them. So if anyone is to blame it is YOU. With gas prices falling NO ONE will be standing in line to buy more expensive electric cars. People and investors will soon be yelling at the US automakes for NOT GIVING THEM THE CARS THEY WANT, which is MORE BIG SUVs and TRUCKS.

  • http://optimism.thorscave.com Thor

    As much as America hates the idea of big government socialism, some of the best pieces of America are nationalized. Why can’t we have a nationalized car company?

    You can read the rest of my opinion here:

    http://optimism.thorscave.com/?p=55

  • http://optimism.thorscave.com Thor

    As much as America hates the idea of big government socialism, some of the best pieces of America are nationalized. Why can’t we have a nationalized car company?

    You can read the rest of my opinion here:

    http://optimism.thorscave.com/?p=55

  • Uncle B

    Post (GRD) great republican depression, the remaining working population of America will drive Buick LeSabres and Cavalier-like cars made in China. These cars are a current-day reality on the streets of China, and await export to the U.S. on the docks of Shanghai as we speak! The elitist uber-rich shareholders of GM had GM America teach GM China how to build these cars using 85 cent and hour, Chinese peasant women, the supply of which is unending and self-regenerating in China. The Uber rich chose these women over the North American car builders for quite apparent economic reasons! The current “bail-out bullshit” is a smoke-screen devised by the Uber-rich bastards, to foist liablility for the large number of unemployed they intend to create, from the private sector, over to the public sector to relieve themselves of any undue expenses, before they collapse expensive North American operations in favor of highly profitable Chinese and Asian operations. Remember, they now own both, are dumping the American white elephant, and the workers, liabilities and all, for more profitable Asian production centers, so that they can be truly competitive with Honda, Hyundai and the like! It is a good, sound business strategy for the uber-rich shareholders, and by selling American stock and buying Asian stock, they slide away to new fields of immense profits, liability free as they collapse American corporations, and Yankee doodle gets it up the brown spot, hard, once again, and is left, smarting and holding the bag! Any truly innovative and advanced ideas will be incorporated into the new Chinese built, highly profitable for shareholders, cars. The “Volt” is a 1969 chevelle body, complete with sheet metal and hydraulic support, engine removed, battery pack added, nightmare of 1930’s greasepit engineering – no servo’s, no drive by wire, no plastics, no carbon fiber, no magnesium parts, no aluminum, no advanced polymer composites – Hell, even Hyundai is trying to make better lighter bodies from recycled soda bottles, and Henry Ford did a number with Soy-plastics way back when! There is no way in Hell, that a major corporation in the country that put a man on the moon can be so backwards, unless they have other motivations.

  • Uncle B

    Post (GRD) great republican depression, the remaining working population of America will drive Buick LeSabres and Cavalier-like cars made in China. These cars are a current-day reality on the streets of China, and await export to the U.S. on the docks of Shanghai as we speak! The elitist uber-rich shareholders of GM had GM America teach GM China how to build these cars using 85 cent and hour, Chinese peasant women, the supply of which is unending and self-regenerating in China. The Uber rich chose these women over the North American car builders for quite apparent economic reasons! The current “bail-out bullshit” is a smoke-screen devised by the Uber-rich bastards, to foist liablility for the large number of unemployed they intend to create, from the private sector, over to the public sector to relieve themselves of any undue expenses, before they collapse expensive North American operations in favor of highly profitable Chinese and Asian operations. Remember, they now own both, are dumping the American white elephant, and the workers, liabilities and all, for more profitable Asian production centers, so that they can be truly competitive with Honda, Hyundai and the like! It is a good, sound business strategy for the uber-rich shareholders, and by selling American stock and buying Asian stock, they slide away to new fields of immense profits, liability free as they collapse American corporations, and Yankee doodle gets it up the brown spot, hard, once again, and is left, smarting and holding the bag! Any truly innovative and advanced ideas will be incorporated into the new Chinese built, highly profitable for shareholders, cars. The “Volt” is a 1969 chevelle body, complete with sheet metal and hydraulic support, engine removed, battery pack added, nightmare of 1930’s greasepit engineering – no servo’s, no drive by wire, no plastics, no carbon fiber, no magnesium parts, no aluminum, no advanced polymer composites – Hell, even Hyundai is trying to make better lighter bodies from recycled soda bottles, and Henry Ford did a number with Soy-plastics way back when! There is no way in Hell, that a major corporation in the country that put a man on the moon can be so backwards, unless they have other motivations.

  • Uncle B

    Post (GRD) great republican depression, the remaining working population of America will drive Buick LeSabres and Cavalier-like cars made in China. These cars are a current-day reality on the streets of China, and await export to the U.S. on the docks of Shanghai as we speak! The elitist uber-rich shareholders of GM had GM America teach GM China how to build these cars using 85 cent and hour, Chinese peasant women, the supply of which is unending and self-regenerating in China. The Uber rich chose these women over the North American car builders for quite apparent economic reasons! The current “bail-out bullshit” is a smoke-screen devised by the Uber-rich bastards, to foist liablility for the large number of unemployed they intend to create, from the private sector, over to the public sector to relieve themselves of any undue expenses, before they collapse expensive North American operations in favor of highly profitable Chinese and Asian operations. Remember, they now own both, are dumping the American white elephant, and the workers, liabilities and all, for more profitable Asian production centers, so that they can be truly competitive with Honda, Hyundai and the like! It is a good, sound business strategy for the uber-rich shareholders, and by selling American stock and buying Asian stock, they slide away to new fields of immense profits, liability free as they collapse American corporations, and Yankee doodle gets it up the brown spot, hard, once again, and is left, smarting and holding the bag! Any truly innovative and advanced ideas will be incorporated into the new Chinese built, highly profitable for shareholders, cars. The “Volt” is a 1969 chevelle body, complete with sheet metal and hydraulic support, engine removed, battery pack added, nightmare of 1930’s greasepit engineering – no servo’s, no drive by wire, no plastics, no carbon fiber, no magnesium parts, no aluminum, no advanced polymer composites – Hell, even Hyundai is trying to make better lighter bodies from recycled soda bottles, and Henry Ford did a number with Soy-plastics way back when! There is no way in Hell, that a major corporation in the country that put a man on the moon can be so backwards, unless they have other motivations.

  • Uncle B

    Post (GRD) great republican depression, the remaining working population of America will drive Buick LeSabres and Cavalier-like cars made in China. These cars are a current-day reality on the streets of China, and await export to the U.S. on the docks of Shanghai as we speak! The elitist uber-rich shareholders of GM had GM America teach GM China how to build these cars using 85 cent and hour, Chinese peasant women, the supply of which is unending and self-regenerating in China. The Uber rich chose these women over the North American car builders for quite apparent economic reasons! The current “bail-out bullshit” is a smoke-screen devised by the Uber-rich bastards, to foist liablility for the large number of unemployed they intend to create, from the private sector, over to the public sector to relieve themselves of any undue expenses, before they collapse expensive North American operations in favor of highly profitable Chinese and Asian operations. Remember, they now own both, are dumping the American white elephant, and the workers, liabilities and all, for more profitable Asian production centers, so that they can be truly competitive with Honda, Hyundai and the like! It is a good, sound business strategy for the uber-rich shareholders, and by selling American stock and buying Asian stock, they slide away to new fields of immense profits, liability free as they collapse American corporations, and Yankee doodle gets it up the brown spot, hard, once again, and is left, smarting and holding the bag! Any truly innovative and advanced ideas will be incorporated into the new Chinese built, highly profitable for shareholders, cars. The “Volt” is a 1969 chevelle body, complete with sheet metal and hydraulic support, engine removed, battery pack added, nightmare of 1930’s greasepit engineering – no servo’s, no drive by wire, no plastics, no carbon fiber, no magnesium parts, no aluminum, no advanced polymer composites – Hell, even Hyundai is trying to make better lighter bodies from recycled soda bottles, and Henry Ford did a number with Soy-plastics way back when! There is no way in Hell, that a major corporation in the country that put a man on the moon can be so backwards, unless they have other motivations.

  • JD

    The big 3 need to stop getting hand outs and let the weak die off and the strong survive. They have mismanaged money and let the unions screw them over long enough. Let those idiots making 60 bucks an hour go broke and stop paying high school drop outs to put a bolt here or there. They pay the union’s retired work force as much or more then workers on the line. Let em go broke and break up the unions which are the greedy bastards that won’t budge.

    Survival of the fittest… let em go broke and see who rebuild a car company that can make money vs producing pc of s@#t vehicles that cost $40k. Giving them more cash is just feeding the same idiots that are going broke over and over. If 300,000 workers lose their jobs so be it, use the billions to help pay to get them an education to do a “skilled” job, the economy will recover and skilled workers will be needed. If they don’t want to help themselves we shouldn’t have to bail em out.

    Unions have long been in power for waaaay to long. Let GM go broke and the UAW will break up, people will see that you really shouldn’t get paid 60 or 70 bucks an hour to sit on your ass all day while 3 other people do the same job. Then when you retire your pension shouldn’t be 95% of the pay you had when you were sitting on your ass pretending to be working.

    I’m sorry if your one of those union workers being over paid and watching your pension about to vanish, but guess what…. if your so damn skilled/smart etc… getting another job being paid that kind of money should be easy right?? oh wait.. that type of hourly pay doesn’t work… in ANY OTHER INDUSTRY. Now your seeing the truth. The corrupt unions killed the automakers not the economy. Selling 20,000 vehicles for 45,000… because they have to overpay union wages.

    Let em burn…

  • JD

    The big 3 need to stop getting hand outs and let the weak die off and the strong survive. They have mismanaged money and let the unions screw them over long enough. Let those idiots making 60 bucks an hour go broke and stop paying high school drop outs to put a bolt here or there. They pay the union’s retired work force as much or more then workers on the line. Let em go broke and break up the unions which are the greedy bastards that won’t budge.

    Survival of the fittest… let em go broke and see who rebuild a car company that can make money vs producing pc of s@#t vehicles that cost $40k. Giving them more cash is just feeding the same idiots that are going broke over and over. If 300,000 workers lose their jobs so be it, use the billions to help pay to get them an education to do a “skilled” job, the economy will recover and skilled workers will be needed. If they don’t want to help themselves we shouldn’t have to bail em out.

    Unions have long been in power for waaaay to long. Let GM go broke and the UAW will break up, people will see that you really shouldn’t get paid 60 or 70 bucks an hour to sit on your ass all day while 3 other people do the same job. Then when you retire your pension shouldn’t be 95% of the pay you had when you were sitting on your ass pretending to be working.

    I’m sorry if your one of those union workers being over paid and watching your pension about to vanish, but guess what…. if your so damn skilled/smart etc… getting another job being paid that kind of money should be easy right?? oh wait.. that type of hourly pay doesn’t work… in ANY OTHER INDUSTRY. Now your seeing the truth. The corrupt unions killed the automakers not the economy. Selling 20,000 vehicles for 45,000… because they have to overpay union wages.

    Let em burn…

  • JD

    The big 3 need to stop getting hand outs and let the weak die off and the strong survive. They have mismanaged money and let the unions screw them over long enough. Let those idiots making 60 bucks an hour go broke and stop paying high school drop outs to put a bolt here or there. They pay the union’s retired work force as much or more then workers on the line. Let em go broke and break up the unions which are the greedy bastards that won’t budge.

    Survival of the fittest… let em go broke and see who rebuild a car company that can make money vs producing pc of s@#t vehicles that cost $40k. Giving them more cash is just feeding the same idiots that are going broke over and over. If 300,000 workers lose their jobs so be it, use the billions to help pay to get them an education to do a “skilled” job, the economy will recover and skilled workers will be needed. If they don’t want to help themselves we shouldn’t have to bail em out.

    Unions have long been in power for waaaay to long. Let GM go broke and the UAW will break up, people will see that you really shouldn’t get paid 60 or 70 bucks an hour to sit on your ass all day while 3 other people do the same job. Then when you retire your pension shouldn’t be 95% of the pay you had when you were sitting on your ass pretending to be working.

    I’m sorry if your one of those union workers being over paid and watching your pension about to vanish, but guess what…. if your so damn skilled/smart etc… getting another job being paid that kind of money should be easy right?? oh wait.. that type of hourly pay doesn’t work… in ANY OTHER INDUSTRY. Now your seeing the truth. The corrupt unions killed the automakers not the economy. Selling 20,000 vehicles for 45,000… because they have to overpay union wages.

    Let em burn…

  • http://@centurytel.net MICHAEL J. SCHMITZ

    I AGREE, LET THE CAR COMPANIES DECLARE BANKRUPTSY, ESPECIALLY WHEN THEIR LOWEST PAID WORKER GETS $49.00 PER HOUR, IT WAS ON THE NEWS AWHILE AGO. THATS GMC, CHRYSLER MIGHT BE BOUGHT BY FIAT AND FORDS DONT NEED IT. AS FOR THE 3 COMPANIES WE BAILED OUT, IF OBAMY WANTS TO BUY THE FORECLOSED HOMES, INSTEAD OF SPENDING MORE MONEY, JUST SUBTRACT THE FORECLOSED HOMES FOR AMERICANS FROM THE DEBT FROM THE BAILOUT MONEY. YOU MAY WANT TO CHECK A NEW LAW REGISTERED FEBRUARY 4, 2009. IT MAY WAKE YOU RIGHT UP. HAVE A NICE DAY. MIKE

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