Would owning 1/1000th of a Community Co-op Hydrogen Station be worth $2,000.00 to you? Greg Blencoe, CEO of Hydrogen Discoveries, Inc. thinks it would be, and he’s come up with an ingenious idea that might help “fuel” the hydrogen station infrastructure.
After corresponding with Greg, this is his plan as he related to me,
“How to build the hydrogen fueling infrastructure without the oil companies or the federal government.”
“The truth is,” says Greg, “that the car companies are very frustrated that neither the oil companies nor the federal government has stepped up to build the hydrogen fueling infrastructure. In order to break this logjam, I am proposing the following idea that would eliminate the need to depend on the oil companies or the federal government to get the hydrogen fueling infrastructure built.”
Greg goes on to explain, “The idea is to get 1000 people that live reasonably close to each other to agree to buy a hydrogen car and finance a hydrogen fueling station that will be built close to where they live. A figure that is often used for the cost of a hydrogen fueling station is $2 million. This would translate to $2000 per person.
Each person would pay the extra $2000 when they purchase a hydrogen car. And then they would own 1/1000th of the hydrogen fueling station which would be a cooperative.
The hydrogen fueling station could be run by members of the cooperative or the operation of the facility could be outsourced. Just like with gas stations today, this cost would be covered by money made from fuel and convenience store sales.
Once the hydrogen fueling station is up and running, the people who paid the $2000 and own part of it would get a “Member” fuel price. Any other people who buy hydrogen cars after them (and did not pay $2000 for the hydrogen fueling station) would have to pay a “Non-member” fuel price which might be something like $1 more per kilogram of hydrogen (e.g. $7 instead of $6).
Any profits from the hydrogen fueling station could be paid back to the 1000 owners every quarter or year in the form of dividend checks. And eventually the hydrogen fueling station could be sold and each person would receive 1/1000th of that amount. Therefore, each person would make back part or perhaps even all of the $2000 initial investment over time.
One of the amazing things is that this could pretty much be done anywhere there are 1000 people who live pretty close to each other who want to do this.
Hydrogen fueling station cooperatives could be done without any help from the oil companies or the federal government. They would be a true grassroots effort that could totally reshape the energy power structure.”
As with any new technology, it’s success usually depends on who can get it to market first. Once a technology makes it to market, it is often very difficult to knock it off it’s winners block and replace it with an even cheaper or better competitor.
The question has to be asked, “With all of the competing alternate fuel technologies trying to break into the market place, who will be the winners and who will be the losers?”
Well hopefully, guys like Greg will keep putting the idea’s on the street, until we come out with a clear winner that we can all get behind.
Photo: LingualX via Creative Commons License
Source: Greg Blencoe, CEO of Hydrogen Discoveries, Inc.
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nice idea but still if a person buys hydrogen or car capable run off any gas fuels. the need to fuel at home. The station can be build in a day. then will help get info stature started.
nice idea but still if a person buys hydrogen or car capable run off any gas fuels. the need to fuel at home. The station can be build in a day. then will help get info stature started.
Interesting idea.. But how would you cover up the planned and unplanned maintenance costs of the hydrogen station (which I understand is more complex than for traditional fuels). Does retail join in at some level?
Interesting idea.. But how would you cover up the planned and unplanned maintenance costs of the hydrogen station (which I understand is more complex than for traditional fuels). Does retail join in at some level?
Ahh, hydrogen. Take your pick: less efficient & more expensive than electric cars, or no better than natural gas vehicles.
Now that fast charging batteries are coming online (see LiFePO4), hydrogen’s last advantage over BEVs is floating away…
Ahh, hydrogen. Take your pick: less efficient & more expensive than electric cars, or no better than natural gas vehicles.
Now that fast charging batteries are coming online (see LiFePO4), hydrogen’s last advantage over BEVs is floating away…
Adam,
It is an interesting idea, as far as it goes. But I’m with Nat here, with one more thought.
I understand these fuel cell vehicles are prototypes, and extremely expensive. I’ve not heard what they think they can be built for with mass production, but when I consider that a) these cars aren’t in production, and will likely be expensive to build, b) there is no maintenance infrastructure for these vehicles, c) a single pump costs $2M dollars (you’ve go to be kidding me!!) – then I think that there is no practical reason to pursue them. This is because EV’s and Biofuels are so much further along.
We have the potential to supply 50%+ of our liquid fuel with ethanol within the next 5-10 years if cellulosic fulfills its promise and continues to advance as fast as it has thus far. Further, the cost to produce a flex-fuel vehicle is $100-200 per car, and there are over 1,700 E85 pumps nationwide and growing rapidly.
IMO, Why would we pursue hydrogen when it is so far down the road, and so expensive, and we are so much further along with EV’s and Flex-Fuel infrastructure/Biofuels? Thanks.
Adam,
It is an interesting idea, as far as it goes. But I’m with Nat here, with one more thought.
I understand these fuel cell vehicles are prototypes, and extremely expensive. I’ve not heard what they think they can be built for with mass production, but when I consider that a) these cars aren’t in production, and will likely be expensive to build, b) there is no maintenance infrastructure for these vehicles, c) a single pump costs $2M dollars (you’ve go to be kidding me!!) – then I think that there is no practical reason to pursue them. This is because EV’s and Biofuels are so much further along.
We have the potential to supply 50%+ of our liquid fuel with ethanol within the next 5-10 years if cellulosic fulfills its promise and continues to advance as fast as it has thus far. Further, the cost to produce a flex-fuel vehicle is $100-200 per car, and there are over 1,700 E85 pumps nationwide and growing rapidly.
IMO, Why would we pursue hydrogen when it is so far down the road, and so expensive, and we are so much further along with EV’s and Flex-Fuel infrastructure/Biofuels? Thanks.
Drew, you draw some good arguments against hydrogen, and as some of the other commentators have also pointed out, there are other interests trying to make it to market with other technologies. This a great thing.
One of the things that is going to drive alternate fuels into the future, is competition and open discussion, just like we are having.
I’ve been told that when Hydrogen Vehicles go to mass production that they will be “competitively priced.” Will it be the car of the future? Time will tell.
At the same time, many people think that Ethanol is not the answer, in that most of it is made from corn and uses farm-able acres that could otherwise be used to grow edible food. While this discussion is going on, algae is making a move towards the front of the pack.
Whatever the answer is, I (and others) are putting the word out there on all the different technologies, so that people can decide for themselves what they think the best answer is. This change is being driven from the bottom up, and I’m having a great time watching it.
Thanks for commenting, and please keep it up.
Drew, you draw some good arguments against hydrogen, and as some of the other commentators have also pointed out, there are other interests trying to make it to market with other technologies. This a great thing.
One of the things that is going to drive alternate fuels into the future, is competition and open discussion, just like we are having.
I’ve been told that when Hydrogen Vehicles go to mass production that they will be “competitively priced.” Will it be the car of the future? Time will tell.
At the same time, many people think that Ethanol is not the answer, in that most of it is made from corn and uses farm-able acres that could otherwise be used to grow edible food. While this discussion is going on, algae is making a move towards the front of the pack.
Whatever the answer is, I (and others) are putting the word out there on all the different technologies, so that people can decide for themselves what they think the best answer is. This change is being driven from the bottom up, and I’m having a great time watching it.
Thanks for commenting, and please keep it up.
Adam,
You’re correct. Putting ALL the ideas out there and getting feedback from actual potential end users is a good thing. Interested consumers and entrepenuers are far more reliable than think tanks and media pundits.
And we certainly cannot rely upon our politicians, unless someone comes up with a B/S and hot air process.
I see that the objections are more toward “hydrogen cars” that use it to generate electricity to run the electric motors. And I agree that that is expensive, inefficient and a long way off.
But…what about hydrogen gas as a fuel for internal combustion engines? Can it be approached in the same manner as CNG, and be the sole source of fuel, as opposed to a hybrid of some sort?
Anybody can build a simple hydrogen generator, but they produce small quantities and have water vapor and other issues.
I have just recently begun researching this possibility and have not gathered a lot of reliable data. When I do, I will eagerly pass it on. But in the meantime, can anyone out there help me out with some simple questions, like what is the best medium to add to the water when generating hydrogen, sea salt or baking soda?
Most of my other questions concern ratios. For instance, what is the mix ratio of salt or soda with water? (i.e. one teaspoon per gallon of water?). Or what is the gas production rate to number of plates ratio? (This assumes a plate-type generator.) What is the number of plates to volume of water ratio?
Obviously I could find these things out imperically, over time, but I have found that a good number of intelligent, well informed, objective people post here, so I’m counting on the goodness of my fellow citizen to expedite the research.
And just so you won’t think that hydrogen is the only area I am delving into, or wonder why, I have been researching and developing a business plan to produce alternative fuel crate engines for the car enthusiasts (i.e. hot rods, muscle cars and collector cars) who want to enjoy their vehicle without enriching OPEC or worsening the pollution situation.
So far, I’ve had my best results with ethanol power, but that, too, has it’s issues.
Any feedback would be welcome and greatly appreciated.
Keep up the good work!
Adam,
You’re correct. Putting ALL the ideas out there and getting feedback from actual potential end users is a good thing. Interested consumers and entrepenuers are far more reliable than think tanks and media pundits.
And we certainly cannot rely upon our politicians, unless someone comes up with a B/S and hot air process.
I see that the objections are more toward “hydrogen cars” that use it to generate electricity to run the electric motors. And I agree that that is expensive, inefficient and a long way off.
But…what about hydrogen gas as a fuel for internal combustion engines? Can it be approached in the same manner as CNG, and be the sole source of fuel, as opposed to a hybrid of some sort?
Anybody can build a simple hydrogen generator, but they produce small quantities and have water vapor and other issues.
I have just recently begun researching this possibility and have not gathered a lot of reliable data. When I do, I will eagerly pass it on. But in the meantime, can anyone out there help me out with some simple questions, like what is the best medium to add to the water when generating hydrogen, sea salt or baking soda?
Most of my other questions concern ratios. For instance, what is the mix ratio of salt or soda with water? (i.e. one teaspoon per gallon of water?). Or what is the gas production rate to number of plates ratio? (This assumes a plate-type generator.) What is the number of plates to volume of water ratio?
Obviously I could find these things out imperically, over time, but I have found that a good number of intelligent, well informed, objective people post here, so I’m counting on the goodness of my fellow citizen to expedite the research.
And just so you won’t think that hydrogen is the only area I am delving into, or wonder why, I have been researching and developing a business plan to produce alternative fuel crate engines for the car enthusiasts (i.e. hot rods, muscle cars and collector cars) who want to enjoy their vehicle without enriching OPEC or worsening the pollution situation.
So far, I’ve had my best results with ethanol power, but that, too, has it’s issues.
Any feedback would be welcome and greatly appreciated.
Keep up the good work!
I think the infrastructure is no ready to take hydrogen developments cars in to place, as far is concern pumping hydrogen in gas station, and building unit at reasonable cost, while the hybrid car build with air compressed car are ready to delivery fuel economy and are ready to perform inmidiatly from our environment. Is air compressed with ethanol, gasoline, and whatever like propane, ready to deliver power supply to a motor that is going to be operated by air compression unit, with zero pollution. The refuel it takes 3 minutes and deliveries 900 miles for 8 gallons of fuel, and also can be used with any gas like propane that run the auxiliary motor to produce more air compressed, and is available immediately into the market place. This kind of technology do not need infrastructure into gas station and is ready in the market place using air and gas.
I think the infrastructure is no ready to take hydrogen developments cars in to place, as far is concern pumping hydrogen in gas station, and building unit at reasonable cost, while the hybrid car build with air compressed car are ready to delivery fuel economy and are ready to perform inmidiatly from our environment. Is air compressed with ethanol, gasoline, and whatever like propane, ready to deliver power supply to a motor that is going to be operated by air compression unit, with zero pollution. The refuel it takes 3 minutes and deliveries 900 miles for 8 gallons of fuel, and also can be used with any gas like propane that run the auxiliary motor to produce more air compressed, and is available immediately into the market place. This kind of technology do not need infrastructure into gas station and is ready in the market place using air and gas.
“Any profits from the hydrogen fueling station could be paid back to the 1000 owners every quarter or year in the form of dividend checks.”
And any losses could be funded by additional contributions from the 1,000 members. If you fail to contribute, you lose your contribution.
“Any profits from the hydrogen fueling station could be paid back to the 1000 owners every quarter or year in the form of dividend checks.”
And any losses could be funded by additional contributions from the 1,000 members. If you fail to contribute, you lose your contribution.