Think paying $100,000 for an electric car is obscene? How about $100K for an F-250?
As much was we covet electric cars like the Tesla Roadster, most of us balk at the $100,000 sticker price. But with gas prices at or above $4 / gallon, the cost difference isn’t as dramatic as you might imagine.
The NYTimes reported last week that if you account for total ownership of a full-sized truck, including insurance, interest, repairs, taxes, and gasoline, a big vehicle like Ford’s F-250 will now set you back $100,000 in the first five years of ownership. Five years is the average amount of time an owner keeps one of these trucks.
Obviously, the average person and automakers alike are noticing how expensive large vehicles have become (GM just announced it would stop making trucks and SUVs at four of its North American plants). Until May, full-sized trucks accounted for 13% of the US vehicle market. They’ve now now plummeted to 9%. Ford’s F-series trucks have been the best selling vehicle annually since 1976, but for the first time in years the top selling vehicle last month was a car: the Honda Civic sedan.
Unfortunately, there isn’t a great renewable energy replacement for heavy duty trucks yet, besides incorporating hybrid technology (like GM has done) which can boost fuel economy by 20%, or modifying the fuel system to accept high ethanol blends (50% of GM’s fleet will be Flex-Fuel by 2012).
One thing has been made abundantly clear: the threshold for buying a full-size truck has gone up a few notches. I was shocked earlier this month when my mechanic said he would be downsizing to a Toyota Tacoma for his daily commute. Will he keep the full-sized truck? Of course, he says, because well, he still has a boat and horse trailer to haul around.
Posts Related to Electric Cars and Gas Prices:
- An Electric Car You Can Buy Today: The $20K TRIAC EV
- Save Gas Without Losing Your Shirt: 3 Gas Saving Devices with High Scam Potential
- An Electric Car With Muscle: The 175 MPGe X1 Prototype by Wrightspeed Inc.
- Low Impact Living: Think Hybrid Cars are Too Expensive?
- Goodbye Trucks and SUVs; Hello Gas Saving… Geo Metro?
Sources:
New York Times-
Big Vehicles Stagger Under the Weight of $4 Gas
Detroit Automakers Compete for a Vanishing Truck Market
Photo Credit: Ford
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About Clayton
Yes, the cost would work out to be similar. Yet the article ignores the reality that many large truck owners earn a living from their beast of burden. Thus the cost is not so easily compared. Can electric car ownwers make money (directly) using their cars? Many segments of society, including electric car owners, benefit from this hauling capacity, wasteful as it may appear.
Yes, the cost would work out to be similar. Yet the article ignores the reality that many large truck owners earn a living from their beast of burden. Thus the cost is not so easily compared. Can electric car ownwers make money (directly) using their cars? Many segments of society, including electric car owners, benefit from this hauling capacity, wasteful as it may appear.
I guess my bias comes from living in an area where 99% of F-250s and F-350s are driven around as status symbols and don’t have time to get even the slightest bit dirty between car washes. There’s nothing I appreciate more than seeing one of these vehicles actually hauling something, and although I know people who do haul for a living, I’m not sure I’ve ever seen one on the road hauling anything besides a boat or horse trailer.
I guess my bias comes from living in an area where 99% of F-250s and F-350s are driven around as status symbols and don’t have time to get even the slightest bit dirty between car washes. There’s nothing I appreciate more than seeing one of these vehicles actually hauling something, and although I know people who do haul for a living, I’m not sure I’ve ever seen one on the road hauling anything besides a boat or horse trailer.
The problem with battery only electric cars goes beyond initial costs – they simply cannot perform the duties of a modern ptrivate transportation vehicle.
They are not viable cars, no matter how cheap they are. And they certainly are not viable trucks. Comparing apples and oranges is a logical error,
and is not the basis for a valid argument. Nor do electric cars and gas powered vehicles have similar costs structures – electric cars require the replacement of very expensive battery packs long before the car is worn out. These packs usually cost more than an entire gas powered car. It’s obvious that you simply are ignorant of the cost structures of various technologies are aren’t even remotely qualified to give public opinions about the subject.
That’s a nice way of saying that you don’t know what you’re talking about and should shut up before you make an even greater fool of yourself.
The problem with battery only electric cars goes beyond initial costs – they simply cannot perform the duties of a modern ptrivate transportation vehicle.
They are not viable cars, no matter how cheap they are. And they certainly are not viable trucks. Comparing apples and oranges is a logical error,
and is not the basis for a valid argument. Nor do electric cars and gas powered vehicles have similar costs structures – electric cars require the replacement of very expensive battery packs long before the car is worn out. These packs usually cost more than an entire gas powered car. It’s obvious that you simply are ignorant of the cost structures of various technologies are aren’t even remotely qualified to give public opinions about the subject.
That’s a nice way of saying that you don’t know what you’re talking about and should shut up before you make an even greater fool of yourself.
@Thomas Gray: I don’t think a hyperbole is a logical error. The point I’m trying to make here is that most people cringe at the price of electric vehicles (even ones that are more modest than the Tesla, like $20-50K) while already paying extremely large sums for their automobiles. Since, like I said, most people only haul their asses around with these trucks, it seems like a reasonable comparison to me.
@Thomas Gray: I don’t think a hyperbole is a logical error. The point I’m trying to make here is that most people cringe at the price of electric vehicles (even ones that are more modest than the Tesla, like $20-50K) while already paying extremely large sums for their automobiles. Since, like I said, most people only haul their asses around with these trucks, it seems like a reasonable comparison to me.
A truck like this can pull a trailer, do farm work, sustain a local economy with goods and services, deliver food to market, and when in need to pull the high school float on parade day, you’re there.
It’s typical of a site like this that is very singly focused on an agenda to maintain narrow focus. Actually, let’s talk about what an electric car cannot do for a change. Hey, I’m all for biofuels and alternative energy. But energy is needed to sustain an economy. Oh jeez, forgot to mention that battery production for deep-cycle batteries take a lot of energy and resources to produce, not to mention emissions during production… and cost to the retailer. Then try charging the batteries with “green” energy. Good luck considering the majority of power plants still use coal. Keep trying guys.
A truck like this can pull a trailer, do farm work, sustain a local economy with goods and services, deliver food to market, and when in need to pull the high school float on parade day, you’re there.
It’s typical of a site like this that is very singly focused on an agenda to maintain narrow focus. Actually, let’s talk about what an electric car cannot do for a change. Hey, I’m all for biofuels and alternative energy. But energy is needed to sustain an economy. Oh jeez, forgot to mention that battery production for deep-cycle batteries take a lot of energy and resources to produce, not to mention emissions during production… and cost to the retailer. Then try charging the batteries with “green” energy. Good luck considering the majority of power plants still use coal. Keep trying guys.
totally worth it.
totally worth it.
I see a lot of construction and pipeline work being done up here in Alaska. Big trucks are popular, people like to be able to haul things around and get stuff done.
I would say that 60 – 75 % of all families own at least one big truck. The problem is that they only use them a few times a year for real work.
My family needed a truck to build our house. We ended up spending 1500 bones to get a 1978 Chevy Silverado. It had plenty torque and carrying capacity to get all our work done. We drove it a few times every summer and parked it where it couldn’t be seen for the rest of the year.
When we finished our work we passed the truck on for 1100. We saved money, Gas, and just felt better about ourselves by saving an old car from a junk yard.
There are hundreds of used trucks just sitting around in Alaska alone… They deserve a better life. New trucks suck.
I see a lot of construction and pipeline work being done up here in Alaska. Big trucks are popular, people like to be able to haul things around and get stuff done.
I would say that 60 – 75 % of all families own at least one big truck. The problem is that they only use them a few times a year for real work.
My family needed a truck to build our house. We ended up spending 1500 bones to get a 1978 Chevy Silverado. It had plenty torque and carrying capacity to get all our work done. We drove it a few times every summer and parked it where it couldn’t be seen for the rest of the year.
When we finished our work we passed the truck on for 1100. We saved money, Gas, and just felt better about ourselves by saving an old car from a junk yard.
There are hundreds of used trucks just sitting around in Alaska alone… They deserve a better life. New trucks suck.
If people like Clayton would pull their heads from their tightly clinched rear they might understand the situation a little bit better. He goes on about it bothering him SO MUCH that these people are SO worried about how they look and they drive their trucks as “status symbols”. What a hypocritical thing to say. You bash them for being self centered as you go along being a judgmental prick. Do you stalk these truck drivers? How do you know whether they use it to haul or not? Or how often they do? Is it any of your business? Because you saw it driving around one time without a load does that mean they NEVER pull anything? If I have a boat to haul do I need to keep it firmly attached 24/7 as to not offend anyone around me? Or maybe I should get a bumper sticker that states my reasons for owning a truck.. I wouldn’t want anyone to be worried I might not actually need it.
This article is also pretty worthless without giving something to compare the 100k every 5 years to. Yeah 100k is expensive but expensive is a relative term. Expensive compared to what? Give us some numbers from other vehicles so the 100k can actually have some meaning.
And a site dedicated to smarter alternatives shouldn’t be praising GM’s biofuel effort. Ethanol is a fallacy and doesn’t actually provide any real beneficial increase in net energy production. It just shifts the numbers around. If it wasn’t subsidized by tax dollars from the same people it’s supposed to be saving money for, it’s higher cost to produce would have killed it in it’s development stages.
Next time do some research and don’t just regurgitate the press release.
The numbers for all the items listed are bogus.
Gas(70,000 miles at $4 calculated at 18mpg – 14) 15,555 – 2000
Oil changes every 3,000 at $35 — $817
4,000 at most for insurance
The total cost even adding in other expenses is going to be less than $60,000 but an electric car at $100,000 is also going to incur some expenses.
Electricity
Maintenance (grease, tuning, tires, etc)
Insurance
I’m all for electric cars, heck if the volt comes in at around the advertised price I’m planning on buying one. That’s still not a good excuse to inflate numbers to promote something that’s just untrue.
If people like Clayton would pull their heads from their tightly clinched rear they might understand the situation a little bit better. He goes on about it bothering him SO MUCH that these people are SO worried about how they look and they drive their trucks as “status symbols”. What a hypocritical thing to say. You bash them for being self centered as you go along being a judgmental prick. Do you stalk these truck drivers? How do you know whether they use it to haul or not? Or how often they do? Is it any of your business? Because you saw it driving around one time without a load does that mean they NEVER pull anything? If I have a boat to haul do I need to keep it firmly attached 24/7 as to not offend anyone around me? Or maybe I should get a bumper sticker that states my reasons for owning a truck.. I wouldn’t want anyone to be worried I might not actually need it.
This article is also pretty worthless without giving something to compare the 100k every 5 years to. Yeah 100k is expensive but expensive is a relative term. Expensive compared to what? Give us some numbers from other vehicles so the 100k can actually have some meaning.
And a site dedicated to smarter alternatives shouldn’t be praising GM’s biofuel effort. Ethanol is a fallacy and doesn’t actually provide any real beneficial increase in net energy production. It just shifts the numbers around. If it wasn’t subsidized by tax dollars from the same people it’s supposed to be saving money for, it’s higher cost to produce would have killed it in it’s development stages.
Next time do some research and don’t just regurgitate the press release.
The numbers for all the items listed are bogus.
Gas(70,000 miles at $4 calculated at 18mpg – 14) 15,555 – 2000
Oil changes every 3,000 at $35 — $817
4,000 at most for insurance
The total cost even adding in other expenses is going to be less than $60,000 but an electric car at $100,000 is also going to incur some expenses.
Electricity
Maintenance (grease, tuning, tires, etc)
Insurance
I’m all for electric cars, heck if the volt comes in at around the advertised price I’m planning on buying one. That’s still not a good excuse to inflate numbers to promote something that’s just untrue.
Wow, the Tesla comes with free insurance, interest, repairs, taxes, and electrical power? I didn’t realize that, thanks for comparing them on equal footing.
The Tesla is a fine concept and a great toy. But, a work vehicle it is not. People buy big trucks like F-250s if they need the hauling capacity, towing capacity, off-road use, etc.
Comparing these two vehicles makes any point you had get lost. But, what was your point anyway? That $100K is not too much to pay for a car? Thanks for that.
Wow, the Tesla comes with free insurance, interest, repairs, taxes, and electrical power? I didn’t realize that, thanks for comparing them on equal footing.
The Tesla is a fine concept and a great toy. But, a work vehicle it is not. People buy big trucks like F-250s if they need the hauling capacity, towing capacity, off-road use, etc.
Comparing these two vehicles makes any point you had get lost. But, what was your point anyway? That $100K is not too much to pay for a car? Thanks for that.
You state an electric car can’t perform the duties of a modern private transportation vehicle without even defining the duties you claim it can’t perform. If you mean commute in a single passenger vehicle 30 miles to work and 30 miles home (a long commute) this can be quite easily accomplished with 1997 technology. The Ford Ranger EV with 1st generation NiMH batteries lasted 125K miles before the batteries need replacing. Unfortunately Ford and GM reclaimed most electric vehicles and crushed them. Electric motors can greater torque and horsepower with less energy than combustion engines. The issue is the extra weight of batteries, but new technology lithium ion batteries, like the one in my laptop, are lighter, more powerful, and last longer. It’s a shame Ford and GM chose to scrap their Electric vehicle lines in 2002. Check this Mythbusters story to see why electric cars outperform conventional gasoline combustion engine cars. http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/transportation/4264025.html
You state an electric car can’t perform the duties of a modern private transportation vehicle without even defining the duties you claim it can’t perform. If you mean commute in a single passenger vehicle 30 miles to work and 30 miles home (a long commute) this can be quite easily accomplished with 1997 technology. The Ford Ranger EV with 1st generation NiMH batteries lasted 125K miles before the batteries need replacing. Unfortunately Ford and GM reclaimed most electric vehicles and crushed them. Electric motors can greater torque and horsepower with less energy than combustion engines. The issue is the extra weight of batteries, but new technology lithium ion batteries, like the one in my laptop, are lighter, more powerful, and last longer. It’s a shame Ford and GM chose to scrap their Electric vehicle lines in 2002. Check this Mythbusters story to see why electric cars outperform conventional gasoline combustion engine cars. http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/transportation/4264025.html
Seriously? You have to take in the TCO (Total Cost of Ownership) to beat the STICKER of the Tesla? Let me see, I can bet that you will have to spend a lot of money on charging it, maybe less than gas but I don’t even want to think of the time required. What happens when the battery dies? Can’t just hike to a gas station, get a can and fill it, then drive the car away. I can bet you will need a tow, and then be out a few hours while you wait for it to recharge. I also highly doubt that they will be cheap to repair. You won’t be able to take it to any old car repair shop. It will HAVE to be “dealer” serviced.
I really don’t think you have made any reasonable comparison. Especially with those (as was mentioned) who work in construction, landscaping companies, et al, who need a “work truck”.
Electric motors don’t have the output capacity (or the ability to store enough energy to drive it). Hell, I have a battery the size of my forearm that only powers my laptop for 4 hours, and that is if I am only typing on it! I have to have screen dimmed and the wireless switched off. I would HATE to see the batteries required power a truck for 4 hours (How many hours can one run on a tank? I would bet, the average is closer to 10).
You are also comparing a car to a truck. Nobody does that even with IC motors of today. It just doesn’t make sense to compare different classes of vehicles to one another.
I believe that cities could benefit from eletric vehicles. Especially if work places provided a place to plug in while on the job. However, don’t kid yourself and think that a plug-in hybrid or eletric car is eco-friendly. Where does the electricity come from? Power plants. What do power plants use as fuel? Coal. That is right. Coal. You have done NOTHING to get away from a fossil fuel.
Seriously? You have to take in the TCO (Total Cost of Ownership) to beat the STICKER of the Tesla? Let me see, I can bet that you will have to spend a lot of money on charging it, maybe less than gas but I don’t even want to think of the time required. What happens when the battery dies? Can’t just hike to a gas station, get a can and fill it, then drive the car away. I can bet you will need a tow, and then be out a few hours while you wait for it to recharge. I also highly doubt that they will be cheap to repair. You won’t be able to take it to any old car repair shop. It will HAVE to be “dealer” serviced.
I really don’t think you have made any reasonable comparison. Especially with those (as was mentioned) who work in construction, landscaping companies, et al, who need a “work truck”.
Electric motors don’t have the output capacity (or the ability to store enough energy to drive it). Hell, I have a battery the size of my forearm that only powers my laptop for 4 hours, and that is if I am only typing on it! I have to have screen dimmed and the wireless switched off. I would HATE to see the batteries required power a truck for 4 hours (How many hours can one run on a tank? I would bet, the average is closer to 10).
You are also comparing a car to a truck. Nobody does that even with IC motors of today. It just doesn’t make sense to compare different classes of vehicles to one another.
I believe that cities could benefit from eletric vehicles. Especially if work places provided a place to plug in while on the job. However, don’t kid yourself and think that a plug-in hybrid or eletric car is eco-friendly. Where does the electricity come from? Power plants. What do power plants use as fuel? Coal. That is right. Coal. You have done NOTHING to get away from a fossil fuel.
There is a better way. You can save fuel even with a big F250. Check out http://www.h2ofuelboost.com.
There is a better way. You can save fuel even with a big F250. Check out http://www.h2ofuelboost.com.
They can charge 100K or whatever, if the price is not within the range of ordinary people they will not buy them. I think that was the argument of the EV that GM scrapped in 2002. GM, Ford and other American car makers do not want to see the electric car massed produced in this country. To many of their stock holders also have stock in Oil companies. The Electric car is a threat to many, many special interest people. The Power companies for one. It is a small step from producing an electric car and powering my house off the grid. States live off gas taxes which bleed the consumer pennies at a time, but are worth hundred of millions to the State.
I will be quite surprised IF GM produces the VOLT, I see delays and excuses as to why it can’t be produced. 2010 would be pushed to 2020 and beyond. They only saving grace we Americans have are other countries producing an EV and importing to us. Go figure and the American Auto makers will complain about unfair practices and lobby for tariffs on imports. Wake up Americans.
They can charge 100K or whatever, if the price is not within the range of ordinary people they will not buy them. I think that was the argument of the EV that GM scrapped in 2002. GM, Ford and other American car makers do not want to see the electric car massed produced in this country. To many of their stock holders also have stock in Oil companies. The Electric car is a threat to many, many special interest people. The Power companies for one. It is a small step from producing an electric car and powering my house off the grid. States live off gas taxes which bleed the consumer pennies at a time, but are worth hundred of millions to the State.
I will be quite surprised IF GM produces the VOLT, I see delays and excuses as to why it can’t be produced. 2010 would be pushed to 2020 and beyond. They only saving grace we Americans have are other countries producing an EV and importing to us. Go figure and the American Auto makers will complain about unfair practices and lobby for tariffs on imports. Wake up Americans.
I think folks are getting a little crazy bent out of shape here. Let’s try to remain level headed, yeah?
Of course, comparing the Tesla Roadster to an F-250 is like comparing apples and oranges. The point is that for those folks who simply own a huge truck (not just F-250s, we’re talking Hummers, Expeditions, etc.) because they want to look good and never use it haul anything or go offroad and the truck never has a single dent or scratch, spending as much money on that vehicle as you would on a brand new mid-life-crisis electric sports car seems kind of crazy.
Look, I know there will always be people that will buy status symbols no matter what. But, wouldn’t it make more sense to spend half the money on something less harmful to the environment but just as status-symboly such as a hybrid Lexus or Diesel Mercedes? I know those cars aren’t really the environmentalists version of a good car, but at least they’re better than a huge truck.
I also realize that there will always be folks who need big trucks to conduct their business (farming, hauling, etc) and no one here or anywhere with half an ounce of sense would say that we’re at a point that we can replace those needs with something else. The point of this article was not to convince those folks to buy a Tesla Roadster, but to convince the folks who buy a Full-size truck for the status to evaluate other options.
‘The numbers for all the items listed are bogus.
Gas(70,000 miles at $4 calculated at 18mpg – 14) 15,555 – 2000″
You’re numbers aren’t correct either. If that truck gets 18 mpg I’ll eat my hat. I don’t think they even publish mpg info for trucks that big, because it’s more like 8-12 mpg, especially in non-highway driving.
You also forgot to calculate the purchase price of the truck itself, which is part of that figure.
Let’s be honest, while some of these trucks are actually used for work, a large # of them are driven by guys who like driving big trucks, and commute in them. Every construction site probably needs one of these, yet every guy on the job site drives one to work,
I drive a small car, and rent a big u-haul pickup the one time a year I need one.
‘The numbers for all the items listed are bogus.
Gas(70,000 miles at $4 calculated at 18mpg – 14) 15,555 – 2000″
You’re numbers aren’t correct either. If that truck gets 18 mpg I’ll eat my hat. I don’t think they even publish mpg info for trucks that big, because it’s more like 8-12 mpg, especially in non-highway driving.
You also forgot to calculate the purchase price of the truck itself, which is part of that figure.
Let’s be honest, while some of these trucks are actually used for work, a large # of them are driven by guys who like driving big trucks, and commute in them. Every construction site probably needs one of these, yet every guy on the job site drives one to work,
I drive a small car, and rent a big u-haul pickup the one time a year I need one.
Wanted to also point out that the electricity used in charging your tesla costs about 10% of what gasoline currently costs. If you went to your local station and plugged it in to charge it you would be paying about
$0.42 on average per gallon of gasoline equivalent depending, of course, on your utility company and the state that you live in.
Wanted to also point out that the electricity used in charging your tesla costs about 10% of what gasoline currently costs. If you went to your local station and plugged it in to charge it you would be paying about
$0.42 on average per gallon of gasoline equivalent depending, of course, on your utility company and the state that you live in.
One thing I never see mentioned in all the proselytizing for “smaller is better” cars: what are big people supposed to drive? Making cars smaller to make them more efficient is fine…if you find a way to shrink the people too, but from what I’ve seen, people are getting bigger, not smaller. I don’t run into all that many people my size, but most all of them are 20-somethings. What are they supposed to drive?
I’m 6’6″ (that’s 198 cm for the more enlightened parts of the world), and there is very little on the market today that I can drive at all…including some of the behemoth vehicles. I own a ’98 Jeep Grand Cherokee, and it just barely fits me (got a full 1 cm of head room, and not much spare leg room, even with the seat way back and leaning). In ’99 Jeep lowered the roof line of the Grand Cherokees to save a little drag, and I lost my spare 1/2″. They no longer make *anything* I can drive…not even the 300D, which isn’t all that tiny a vehicle.
Engineers need to get a clue and realize that not everyone is 5’5″! Or even the “standard male” height of 5’9″. You don’t have to make a large vehicle to fit a large person though…you just have to design it more intelligently than anything being made today. My first car was a ’67 VW Beetle, and it was plenty roomy, and I *almost* fit into a friend’s Mini Cooper. I tried a Prius, and in an emergency I could drive one…but I’ll not own one. I’m looking out the windshield through the top inch, and the way the front of the roof dips down in front blocks my view up the road…particularly if the road isn’t flat. I’d have to duck to one side to get a view of where I’m going and avoid feeling like I’m wearing a medieval great helm.
The main problem in almost all vehicles made today is center consoles (those didn’t exist in my ’67 VW). When you are tall, and the firewall is close, your knees have to stick out to the sides (they can’t come up…the dash is always in the way). Getting my knee tangled in the shift lever is sometimes a problem, but I can work around that, but if there’s a center console, I can’t reach the gas pedal…the line from where my knee ends up, to the gas pedal, always goes through the edge of the damn center console, making the vehicle undrivable! I once owned a ’92 Nissan Pathfinder…and my shin ended up resting on the center console edge, but at least I could drive it. When I went back to buy another in the late 90s, they’d widened the center console about an inch, and I could no longer drive anything they made (the smaller vehicles weren’t even close).
I’d love to have an all electric vehicle, or one that runs on hydrogen that I can make at home from sun and wind, but I just know that when they come up with one, it will be like the Prius or the other “green cars”…way too small for me to fit in and drive, and I’ll have to put up with hearing about how awful I am for driving a big gas hog from all the unthinking, sheep-like, munchkin-like morons.
I’ve considered looking into modifying my Jeep to burn hydrogen…it’s certainly possible. I bet if I do, I’ll still get arguments about driving an SUV. Too many of the sheep-like greenies have internalized “big is bad”, rather than “gas is bad”. If I’m burning hydrogen made from sunshine and wind, who cares how big a vehicle I drive? It would be “greener” than a tiny hybrid. Don’t go small, go renewable!
One thing I never see mentioned in all the proselytizing for “smaller is better” cars: what are big people supposed to drive? Making cars smaller to make them more efficient is fine…if you find a way to shrink the people too, but from what I’ve seen, people are getting bigger, not smaller. I don’t run into all that many people my size, but most all of them are 20-somethings. What are they supposed to drive?
I’m 6’6″ (that’s 198 cm for the more enlightened parts of the world), and there is very little on the market today that I can drive at all…including some of the behemoth vehicles. I own a ’98 Jeep Grand Cherokee, and it just barely fits me (got a full 1 cm of head room, and not much spare leg room, even with the seat way back and leaning). In ’99 Jeep lowered the roof line of the Grand Cherokees to save a little drag, and I lost my spare 1/2″. They no longer make *anything* I can drive…not even the 300D, which isn’t all that tiny a vehicle.
Engineers need to get a clue and realize that not everyone is 5’5″! Or even the “standard male” height of 5’9″. You don’t have to make a large vehicle to fit a large person though…you just have to design it more intelligently than anything being made today. My first car was a ’67 VW Beetle, and it was plenty roomy, and I *almost* fit into a friend’s Mini Cooper. I tried a Prius, and in an emergency I could drive one…but I’ll not own one. I’m looking out the windshield through the top inch, and the way the front of the roof dips down in front blocks my view up the road…particularly if the road isn’t flat. I’d have to duck to one side to get a view of where I’m going and avoid feeling like I’m wearing a medieval great helm.
The main problem in almost all vehicles made today is center consoles (those didn’t exist in my ’67 VW). When you are tall, and the firewall is close, your knees have to stick out to the sides (they can’t come up…the dash is always in the way). Getting my knee tangled in the shift lever is sometimes a problem, but I can work around that, but if there’s a center console, I can’t reach the gas pedal…the line from where my knee ends up, to the gas pedal, always goes through the edge of the damn center console, making the vehicle undrivable! I once owned a ’92 Nissan Pathfinder…and my shin ended up resting on the center console edge, but at least I could drive it. When I went back to buy another in the late 90s, they’d widened the center console about an inch, and I could no longer drive anything they made (the smaller vehicles weren’t even close).
I’d love to have an all electric vehicle, or one that runs on hydrogen that I can make at home from sun and wind, but I just know that when they come up with one, it will be like the Prius or the other “green cars”…way too small for me to fit in and drive, and I’ll have to put up with hearing about how awful I am for driving a big gas hog from all the unthinking, sheep-like, munchkin-like morons.
I’ve considered looking into modifying my Jeep to burn hydrogen…it’s certainly possible. I bet if I do, I’ll still get arguments about driving an SUV. Too many of the sheep-like greenies have internalized “big is bad”, rather than “gas is bad”. If I’m burning hydrogen made from sunshine and wind, who cares how big a vehicle I drive? It would be “greener” than a tiny hybrid. Don’t go small, go renewable!
HONDA GX propane-LNG car is coming in December 2008 it is in production but SOLD OUT…caliCORNia is saved….only $25,000.00. You can hold out till GM VOLT (laugh) is released or HONDA comes out with another TECH BREAK for the USA Market….
I have a wind turbine car design that only works within 5 miles of WASHINGTON DC.
The GMC 8500 tandem axle commercial truck comes with a 7.8L diesel with around 250HP and over 660 LB-FT torque and with a GVWR of over 50,000 lbs.
The Ford F250 comes with engines between 300HP/365LB-FT torque and 350HP/650LB-FT torque and the idiots criticizing Clayton claim this much power is needed to pull a boat once or twice a year????!?
Whose heads are in their respective rear ends???
As Clayton wrote, most people, the VAST MAJORITY of people in the metropolis don’t drive these trucks because they need to.
I live in Vancouver, BC and friends from northern BC laugh at all the fools in Vancouver driving over-powered and over-sized trucks.
(Vancouver is where they come to find used trucks in new condition and put them to work up north.)
The worst are the gas trucks.
To put a gas engine in these behemoths which are intended for heavy work (like the weekly shopping trip to Safeway) is plain and simple idiotic.
These trucks are meant for *****TORQUE***** and should be using DIESEL engines AT LEAST HALF the size that they currently have.
Unfortunately, most non-commercial drivers of these behemoth pick-up trucks are not very bright and have a need to burn rubber while pulling two houseboats up every mountain pass.
These people are visible everywhere in BC and they endanger everyone on the road due to the speed that these trucks are driven at.
Semi-trucks are not that dangerous because they don’t accelerate like a muscle car and have to be driven sensibly.
We had a Ford F250 with a 7.3L engine. That thing was idiotically powerful but there was nothing smaller and sensible to choose!
AND WHY ARE ZERO-TO-60 TIMES OF ANY IMPORT IN THESE BEASTS OF BURDEN???????
These are beasts of burden where TORQUE counts and are not for drag racing.
The Mercedes Unimog, probably the most sophisticated truck in the world, has a 6.4L I6 Diesel engine with 260hp and 700lb-ft of torque, and is commonly used to pull trains in ports.
260hp and 700lb-ft of torque.
And these fools need almost this much power in a typical pickup truck to pull a boat???????????
The GMC 8500 tandem axle commercial truck comes with a 7.8L diesel with around 250HP and over 660 LB-FT torque and with a GVWR of over 50,000 lbs.
The Ford F250 comes with engines between 300HP/365LB-FT torque and 350HP/650LB-FT torque and the idiots criticizing Clayton claim this much power is needed to pull a boat once or twice a year????!?
Whose heads are in their respective rear ends???
As Clayton wrote, most people, the VAST MAJORITY of people in the metropolis don’t drive these trucks because they need to.
I live in Vancouver, BC and friends from northern BC laugh at all the fools in Vancouver driving over-powered and over-sized trucks.
(Vancouver is where they come to find used trucks in new condition and put them to work up north.)
The worst are the gas trucks.
To put a gas engine in these behemoths which are intended for heavy work (like the weekly shopping trip to Safeway) is plain and simple idiotic.
These trucks are meant for *****TORQUE***** and should be using DIESEL engines AT LEAST HALF the size that they currently have.
Unfortunately, most non-commercial drivers of these behemoth pick-up trucks are not very bright and have a need to burn rubber while pulling two houseboats up every mountain pass.
These people are visible everywhere in BC and they endanger everyone on the road due to the speed that these trucks are driven at.
Semi-trucks are not that dangerous because they don’t accelerate like a muscle car and have to be driven sensibly.
We had a Ford F250 with a 7.3L engine. That thing was idiotically powerful but there was nothing smaller and sensible to choose!
AND WHY ARE ZERO-TO-60 TIMES OF ANY IMPORT IN THESE BEASTS OF BURDEN???????
These are beasts of burden where TORQUE counts and are not for drag racing.
The Mercedes Unimog, probably the most sophisticated truck in the world, has a 6.4L I6 Diesel engine with 260hp and 700lb-ft of torque, and is commonly used to pull trains in ports.
260hp and 700lb-ft of torque.
And these fools need almost this much power in a typical pickup truck to pull a boat???????????
This is complete bunk.
The F-150 and F-250 lines of vehicles are highly reliable. To say that “repair costs” are going to be factored into the equation is a way of intorducing bogus figures to guarantee a high number where none exists.
My 1997 Econoline has nearly 200,000 miles on it. It is built on the same chasis, and with the same components as the pickups. With an initial cost of $30,000 (customized, base was something like $19,000), I’ve probably spent another $10,000 over the years in total cost. Furthermore, with an extra $2,000, you can get an extended warranty that covers the vehicle for 5 years, or 100,000 miles.
Furthermore, I’d like to see an electric car haul more than some overweight blowhard, for more than 40 miles.
Not only are the numbers completely bogus, it is not even an apples-to-apples comparison here. An F-250 is a heavy-duty hauler, and is MADE for that purpose. An electric car is nothing more than a potental deathtrap that won’t even take you more than 100 miles on a single, 24-hour charge.
And I’ll bet no one has taken into accout how much it costs to have the batteries replaced every 2 years.
This is complete bunk.
The F-150 and F-250 lines of vehicles are highly reliable. To say that “repair costs” are going to be factored into the equation is a way of intorducing bogus figures to guarantee a high number where none exists.
My 1997 Econoline has nearly 200,000 miles on it. It is built on the same chasis, and with the same components as the pickups. With an initial cost of $30,000 (customized, base was something like $19,000), I’ve probably spent another $10,000 over the years in total cost. Furthermore, with an extra $2,000, you can get an extended warranty that covers the vehicle for 5 years, or 100,000 miles.
Furthermore, I’d like to see an electric car haul more than some overweight blowhard, for more than 40 miles.
Not only are the numbers completely bogus, it is not even an apples-to-apples comparison here. An F-250 is a heavy-duty hauler, and is MADE for that purpose. An electric car is nothing more than a potental deathtrap that won’t even take you more than 100 miles on a single, 24-hour charge.
And I’ll bet no one has taken into accout how much it costs to have the batteries replaced every 2 years.
Well you forgot to mention that plenty of the large trucks, (I suppose you mean anything bigger than a honda prius), can and do run on natrual gas, cheap and clean. But the infastucture to provide that at a residential medium is lacking. Propane as well is a great alternative and gives those that need a truck to make a living the means to do so. this pigeon holeing everyone into what ever Folkswagon you soclist deem nessary is just stupid.
Well you forgot to mention that plenty of the large trucks, (I suppose you mean anything bigger than a honda prius), can and do run on natrual gas, cheap and clean. But the infastucture to provide that at a residential medium is lacking. Propane as well is a great alternative and gives those that need a truck to make a living the means to do so. this pigeon holeing everyone into what ever Folkswagon you soclist deem nessary is just stupid.
“I know people who do haul for a living, I’m not sure I’ve ever seen one on the road hauling anything besides a boat or horse trailer.”
wealth envy is it? You dont think poeple who work hard should be allowed to purchase luxury items? or recreation vehicles? should we ban all items that not everyone can afford? we currently punsih the evil rich with luxury taxes on what ever the item deemed as luxury, is that not enough for you comrade?
“I know people who do haul for a living, I’m not sure I’ve ever seen one on the road hauling anything besides a boat or horse trailer.”
wealth envy is it? You dont think poeple who work hard should be allowed to purchase luxury items? or recreation vehicles? should we ban all items that not everyone can afford? we currently punsih the evil rich with luxury taxes on what ever the item deemed as luxury, is that not enough for you comrade?
Modogg said on June 10th, 2008 at 5:12 pm
‘The numbers for all the items listed are bogus.
Gas(70,000 miles at $4 calculated at 18mpg – 14) 15,555 – 2000″
You’re numbers aren’t correct either. If that truck gets 18 mpg I’ll eat my hat. I don’t think they even publish mpg info for trucks that big, because it’s more like 8-12 mpg, especially in non-highway driving.
You also forgot to calculate the purchase price of the truck itself, which is part of that figure.
Let’s be honest, while some of these trucks are actually used for work, a large # of them are driven by guys who like driving big trucks, and commute in them. Every construction site probably needs one of these, yet every guy on the job site drives one to work,
I drive a small car, and rent a big u-haul pickup the one time a year I need one.
I have a 2000 f350 4×4 crew cab that gets 20 mpg no matter if i am hauling 6000 pounds or nothing at all ignorance is bliss!
Modogg said on June 10th, 2008 at 5:12 pm
‘The numbers for all the items listed are bogus.
Gas(70,000 miles at $4 calculated at 18mpg – 14) 15,555 – 2000″
You’re numbers aren’t correct either. If that truck gets 18 mpg I’ll eat my hat. I don’t think they even publish mpg info for trucks that big, because it’s more like 8-12 mpg, especially in non-highway driving.
You also forgot to calculate the purchase price of the truck itself, which is part of that figure.
Let’s be honest, while some of these trucks are actually used for work, a large # of them are driven by guys who like driving big trucks, and commute in them. Every construction site probably needs one of these, yet every guy on the job site drives one to work,
I drive a small car, and rent a big u-haul pickup the one time a year I need one.
I have a 2000 f350 4×4 crew cab that gets 20 mpg no matter if i am hauling 6000 pounds or nothing at all ignorance is bliss!
Hey Clayton,
What do you usually see pulling a travel trailer?
Most of what I see is a heavy duty diesel pickup truck.
Hey Clayton,
What do you usually see pulling a travel trailer?
Most of what I see is a heavy duty diesel pickup truck.
To buy the car is still expensive because you still have to pay for the electricity you’re using to power the vehicle, wich can be expensive.
To buy the car is still expensive because you still have to pay for the electricity you’re using to power the vehicle, wich can be expensive.
Yeah I use my F250 for work, but the gas price is crazy!
Yeah I use my F250 for work, but the gas price is crazy!
Don’t think of it as a car, but more like a piece of construction equipment. That thing is very powerful. Bulldozers, cranes, tractors, all run for 100k+.. no reason this car shouldnt as well.
Actually, the F-250 can potentially MAKE you 100 grand in 5 years, if you use it right. Even for the people who use it as a status symbol, the most it will total out to will be around $60,000, including insurance, maintenance, gas (or diesel) at around $4 a gallon, and repairs (or lack thereof).
I have 2 F-250s myself. One, a 1989 model year, hauls around a camper. And when the camper’s not on it, it’s almost always either towing a trailer or full of furniture, dirt, gym sets, firewood, whatever’s too big for the average Joe to move with his Camry. All this and it gets 17mpg highway.
The other one is a 1987, with the big 460 engine on it. And though it gets around 8mpg, it still makes me plenty of money. It’s a 4X4 and I use it to gather firewood (literally tons of it at a time) in the mountains. I’ve filled it and a 20 foot trailer, up to the roof of both truck and trailer, with solid oak logs time and time again. I don’t own a small car, and even at $4 a gallon I’m still better off than most people.
I also have another truck, an ’07 Ford F-150. It’s a dedicated pest control truck for our family pest control company. I make a living with that truck.