Comments on: Without Clean Electricity, Plug-In Vehicles aren't So Hot http://gas2.org/2008/04/08/without-clean-electricity-plug-in-vehicles-arent-so-hot/ What is the future of fuel? What's new? What's next? Since 2007, Gas 2 has covered a rapidly changing world coming to terms with its oil addiction. Sun, 12 Feb 2012 21:57:52 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Henry Gibson http://gas2.org/2008/04/08/without-clean-electricity-plug-in-vehicles-arent-so-hot/#comment-1368 Henry Gibson Thu, 14 Aug 2008 17:46:31 +0000 http://gas2.org/2008/04/08/without-clean-electricity-plug-in-vehicles-arent-so-hot/#comment-1368 The purpose of plug-in-hybids is to reduce the cost of operation and the use of imported expensive crude not to lower green house gases, but the plug-in-hybrids do this as well compared to non hybrids. Grid energy from coal costs about one fifth that of gasoline and can be much less. Large users of electricity may pay less than half of what home users pay per kilowatt hour, and home owners can get much cheaper night rates in some places. This also lowers CO2 because natural gas plants are idled in favor of hydro or nuclear at night. Nuclear is never shut off because the fuel costs are far lower than any other fuel and water can be usually stored for periods of higher use. The purpose of plug-in-hybids is to reduce the cost of operation and the use of imported expensive crude not to lower green house gases, but the plug-in-hybrids do this as well compared to non hybrids. Grid energy from coal costs about one fifth that of gasoline and can be much less.

Large users of electricity may pay less than half of what home users pay per kilowatt hour, and home owners can get much cheaper night rates in some places. This also lowers CO2 because natural gas plants are idled in favor of hydro or nuclear at night. Nuclear is never shut off because the fuel costs are far lower than any other fuel and water can be usually stored for periods of higher use.

]]> By: Henry Gibson http://gas2.org/2008/04/08/without-clean-electricity-plug-in-vehicles-arent-so-hot/#comment-22977 Henry Gibson Thu, 14 Aug 2008 17:46:00 +0000 http://gas2.org/2008/04/08/without-clean-electricity-plug-in-vehicles-arent-so-hot/#comment-22977 The purpose of plug-in-hybids is to reduce the cost of operation and the use of imported expensive crude not to lower green house gases, but the plug-in-hybrids do this as well compared to non hybrids. Grid energy from coal costs about one fifth that of gasoline and can be much less. Large users of electricity may pay less than half of what home users pay per kilowatt hour, and home owners can get much cheaper night rates in some places. This also lowers CO2 because natural gas plants are idled in favor of hydro or nuclear at night. Nuclear is never shut off because the fuel costs are far lower than any other fuel and water can be usually stored for periods of higher use. The purpose of plug-in-hybids is to reduce the cost of operation and the use of imported expensive crude not to lower green house gases, but the plug-in-hybrids do this as well compared to non hybrids. Grid energy from coal costs about one fifth that of gasoline and can be much less.

Large users of electricity may pay less than half of what home users pay per kilowatt hour, and home owners can get much cheaper night rates in some places. This also lowers CO2 because natural gas plants are idled in favor of hydro or nuclear at night. Nuclear is never shut off because the fuel costs are far lower than any other fuel and water can be usually stored for periods of higher use.

]]> By: Henry Gibson http://gas2.org/2008/04/08/without-clean-electricity-plug-in-vehicles-arent-so-hot/#comment-1367 Henry Gibson Thu, 14 Aug 2008 17:31:41 +0000 http://gas2.org/2008/04/08/without-clean-electricity-plug-in-vehicles-arent-so-hot/#comment-1367 Yes! electric cars powered from the coal powered grid release carbon; this is the first law of themodynamics, but it can be less than that released in a traffic jam where cars are idling at zero efficiency, and the carbon is not at ground level and mixed with other smog chemicals. The installation of nuclear power plants eliminate this CO2 release, in large measure. All production cars could be modified to use a larger standard battery to run all brakes, fans, pumps, ac, stereo and lights and have an integrated starter-altenator for no-idle operation. Electric powered creeping in traffic jams is posssible and engine overheating in such conditions is eliminated. Every California car should have electric creeping. Air and fuel injection or electric heat can keep the catalysts ready for the start. The battery is usually charged at home and by regeneration when braking or slowing, but the alternator can be turned on for very low battery conditions. Very high current alternators are available for high regeneration energy. ZEBRA batteries can be used and are simpler to build and maintain than lithium. They need to be kept hot but lithium batteries need to be kept cool which is harder. Failed ZEBRA cells can be ignored. Failed lithium cells can burn up and even ignite other cells. Except for cost (but this applies to litium batteries too), ZEBRA batteries are the best batteries to use with the Prius and its original battery for plug-in-hybrid operation for long electric distances. Small, derated for safety and cost, flywheels could eliminate the need for the original hybrid battery and have infinite life. ..HG.. Yes! electric cars powered from the coal powered grid release carbon; this is the first law of themodynamics, but it can be less than that released in a traffic jam where cars are idling at zero efficiency, and the carbon is not at ground level and mixed with other smog chemicals. The installation of nuclear power plants eliminate this CO2 release, in large measure.

All production cars could be modified to use a larger standard battery to run all brakes, fans, pumps, ac, stereo and lights and have an integrated starter-altenator for no-idle operation. Electric powered creeping in traffic jams is posssible and engine overheating in such conditions is eliminated. Every California car should have electric creeping. Air and fuel injection or electric heat can keep the catalysts ready for the start. The battery is usually charged at home and by regeneration when braking or slowing, but the alternator can be turned on for very low battery conditions. Very high current alternators are available for high regeneration energy.

ZEBRA batteries can be used and are simpler to build and maintain than lithium. They need to be kept hot but lithium batteries need to be kept cool which is harder. Failed ZEBRA cells can be ignored. Failed lithium cells can burn up and even ignite other cells.

Except for cost (but this applies to litium batteries too), ZEBRA batteries are the best batteries to use with the Prius and its original battery for plug-in-hybrid operation for long electric distances. Small, derated for safety and cost, flywheels could eliminate the need for the original hybrid battery and have infinite life. ..HG..

]]> By: Henry Gibson http://gas2.org/2008/04/08/without-clean-electricity-plug-in-vehicles-arent-so-hot/#comment-22976 Henry Gibson Thu, 14 Aug 2008 17:31:00 +0000 http://gas2.org/2008/04/08/without-clean-electricity-plug-in-vehicles-arent-so-hot/#comment-22976 Yes! electric cars powered from the coal powered grid release carbon; this is the first law of themodynamics, but it can be less than that released in a traffic jam where cars are idling at zero efficiency, and the carbon is not at ground level and mixed with other smog chemicals. The installation of nuclear power plants eliminate this CO2 release, in large measure. All production cars could be modified to use a larger standard battery to run all brakes, fans, pumps, ac, stereo and lights and have an integrated starter-altenator for no-idle operation. Electric powered creeping in traffic jams is posssible and engine overheating in such conditions is eliminated. Every California car should have electric creeping. Air and fuel injection or electric heat can keep the catalysts ready for the start. The battery is usually charged at home and by regeneration when braking or slowing, but the alternator can be turned on for very low battery conditions. Very high current alternators are available for high regeneration energy. ZEBRA batteries can be used and are simpler to build and maintain than lithium. They need to be kept hot but lithium batteries need to be kept cool which is harder. Failed ZEBRA cells can be ignored. Failed lithium cells can burn up and even ignite other cells. Except for cost (but this applies to litium batteries too), ZEBRA batteries are the best batteries to use with the Prius and its original battery for plug-in-hybrid operation for long electric distances. Small, derated for safety and cost, flywheels could eliminate the need for the original hybrid battery and have infinite life. ..HG.. Yes! electric cars powered from the coal powered grid release carbon; this is the first law of themodynamics, but it can be less than that released in a traffic jam where cars are idling at zero efficiency, and the carbon is not at ground level and mixed with other smog chemicals. The installation of nuclear power plants eliminate this CO2 release, in large measure.

All production cars could be modified to use a larger standard battery to run all brakes, fans, pumps, ac, stereo and lights and have an integrated starter-altenator for no-idle operation. Electric powered creeping in traffic jams is posssible and engine overheating in such conditions is eliminated. Every California car should have electric creeping. Air and fuel injection or electric heat can keep the catalysts ready for the start. The battery is usually charged at home and by regeneration when braking or slowing, but the alternator can be turned on for very low battery conditions. Very high current alternators are available for high regeneration energy.

ZEBRA batteries can be used and are simpler to build and maintain than lithium. They need to be kept hot but lithium batteries need to be kept cool which is harder. Failed ZEBRA cells can be ignored. Failed lithium cells can burn up and even ignite other cells.

Except for cost (but this applies to litium batteries too), ZEBRA batteries are the best batteries to use with the Prius and its original battery for plug-in-hybrid operation for long electric distances. Small, derated for safety and cost, flywheels could eliminate the need for the original hybrid battery and have infinite life. ..HG..

]]> By: mike http://gas2.org/2008/04/08/without-clean-electricity-plug-in-vehicles-arent-so-hot/#comment-1366 mike Thu, 14 Aug 2008 00:11:07 +0000 http://gas2.org/2008/04/08/without-clean-electricity-plug-in-vehicles-arent-so-hot/#comment-1366 Why not just use good old reliable time tested lead acid batteries in electric cars? Check out this site: www.fireflyenergy.com This guy is teaching an old dog new tricks. Why not just use good old reliable time tested lead acid batteries in electric cars?

Check out this site: http://www.fireflyenergy.com

This guy is teaching an old dog new tricks.

]]> By: mike http://gas2.org/2008/04/08/without-clean-electricity-plug-in-vehicles-arent-so-hot/#comment-22975 mike Thu, 14 Aug 2008 00:11:00 +0000 http://gas2.org/2008/04/08/without-clean-electricity-plug-in-vehicles-arent-so-hot/#comment-22975 Why not just use good old reliable time tested lead acid batteries in electric cars? Check out this site: www.fireflyenergy.com This guy is teaching an old dog new tricks. Why not just use good old reliable time tested lead acid batteries in electric cars?

Check out this site: http://www.fireflyenergy.com

This guy is teaching an old dog new tricks.

]]> By: Henry Gibson http://gas2.org/2008/04/08/without-clean-electricity-plug-in-vehicles-arent-so-hot/#comment-1365 Henry Gibson Mon, 07 Jul 2008 23:02:23 +0000 http://gas2.org/2008/04/08/without-clean-electricity-plug-in-vehicles-arent-so-hot/#comment-1365 The article forgot to mention that much power in CA is hydro. Fully 18% of power is nuclear. It also forgot to mention that much power is shipped into CA and does not cause PhotoChemical smog in LA. The grams of carbon per-mile can also be disputed. As another pointed out the big advantage is cost. Crude oil costs about ten times as much as does coal delivered at the powerplant. The C02 per mile for gasoline does not include the CO2 produced at the well by flaring gas or perhaps the CO2 produced in refining or perhaps the CO2 produced in pumping or perhaps the CO2 produced by tankers or the CO2 produced by trucking to the service station. Statistics show that 123 gallons of crude are required at the refinery for 100 gallons of refined fuel. The electric grid loses less than %10 power on the average... ..HG.. The article forgot to mention that much power in CA is hydro. Fully 18% of power is nuclear. It also forgot to mention that much power is shipped into CA and does not cause PhotoChemical smog in LA. The grams of carbon per-mile can also be disputed. As another pointed out the big advantage is cost. Crude oil costs about ten times as much as does coal delivered at the powerplant. The C02 per mile for gasoline does not include the CO2 produced at the well by flaring gas or perhaps the CO2 produced in refining or perhaps the CO2 produced in pumping or perhaps the CO2 produced by tankers or the CO2 produced by trucking to the service station. Statistics show that 123 gallons of crude are required at the refinery for 100 gallons of refined fuel. The electric grid loses less than %10 power on the average… ..HG..

]]> By: Henry Gibson http://gas2.org/2008/04/08/without-clean-electricity-plug-in-vehicles-arent-so-hot/#comment-22974 Henry Gibson Mon, 07 Jul 2008 23:02:00 +0000 http://gas2.org/2008/04/08/without-clean-electricity-plug-in-vehicles-arent-so-hot/#comment-22974 The article forgot to mention that much power in CA is hydro. Fully 18% of power is nuclear. It also forgot to mention that much power is shipped into CA and does not cause PhotoChemical smog in LA. The grams of carbon per-mile can also be disputed. As another pointed out the big advantage is cost. Crude oil costs about ten times as much as does coal delivered at the powerplant. The C02 per mile for gasoline does not include the CO2 produced at the well by flaring gas or perhaps the CO2 produced in refining or perhaps the CO2 produced in pumping or perhaps the CO2 produced by tankers or the CO2 produced by trucking to the service station. Statistics show that 123 gallons of crude are required at the refinery for 100 gallons of refined fuel. The electric grid loses less than %10 power on the average... ..HG.. The article forgot to mention that much power in CA is hydro. Fully 18% of power is nuclear. It also forgot to mention that much power is shipped into CA and does not cause PhotoChemical smog in LA. The grams of carbon per-mile can also be disputed. As another pointed out the big advantage is cost. Crude oil costs about ten times as much as does coal delivered at the powerplant. The C02 per mile for gasoline does not include the CO2 produced at the well by flaring gas or perhaps the CO2 produced in refining or perhaps the CO2 produced in pumping or perhaps the CO2 produced by tankers or the CO2 produced by trucking to the service station. Statistics show that 123 gallons of crude are required at the refinery for 100 gallons of refined fuel. The electric grid loses less than %10 power on the average… ..HG..

]]> By: Uncle B http://gas2.org/2008/04/08/without-clean-electricity-plug-in-vehicles-arent-so-hot/#comment-1364 Uncle B Wed, 02 Jul 2008 23:54:59 +0000 http://gas2.org/2008/04/08/without-clean-electricity-plug-in-vehicles-arent-so-hot/#comment-1364 If the U.S. had decided to be a moral people, and leaving Iraqi oil alone, decided to develop the South Western deserts, with the technology of the times, solar/thermal installations, for the same amount of money as that war cost, today, we would be tapping into the largest, renewable, sustainable, energy source the world has ever known. It would have paid every energy bill in the U.S.A. for maintenance fees only - FOREVER! It is an oil well that can NEVER run dry! After the millions of murders, and billions of dollars, borrowed from our children's futures and spent, with thousands of our own and others maimed and disfigured for life, millions of families utterly destroyed, ours and theirs, we are no closer to Iraqi oil production than the Iraqis are! The next time you hear a blithering idiot spoiled brat, drunken, drug addicted, sociopathic, rich daddie's boy, stand at a microphone and threaten YOUR safety with someone else's weapons, remember what you lost America, remember, and weep! If the U.S. had decided to be a moral people, and leaving Iraqi oil alone, decided to develop the South Western deserts, with the technology of the times, solar/thermal installations, for the same amount of money as that war cost, today, we would be tapping into the largest, renewable, sustainable, energy source the world has ever known. It would have paid every energy bill in the U.S.A. for maintenance fees only – FOREVER! It is an oil well that can NEVER run dry! After the millions of murders, and billions of dollars, borrowed from our children’s futures and spent, with thousands of our own and others maimed and disfigured for life, millions of families utterly destroyed, ours and theirs, we are no closer to Iraqi oil production than the Iraqis are!

The next time you hear a blithering idiot spoiled brat, drunken, drug addicted, sociopathic, rich daddie’s boy, stand at a microphone and threaten YOUR safety with someone else’s weapons, remember what you lost America, remember, and weep!

]]> By: Uncle B http://gas2.org/2008/04/08/without-clean-electricity-plug-in-vehicles-arent-so-hot/#comment-22973 Uncle B Wed, 02 Jul 2008 23:54:00 +0000 http://gas2.org/2008/04/08/without-clean-electricity-plug-in-vehicles-arent-so-hot/#comment-22973 If the U.S. had decided to be a moral people, and leaving Iraqi oil alone, decided to develop the South Western deserts, with the technology of the times, solar/thermal installations, for the same amount of money as that war cost, today, we would be tapping into the largest, renewable, sustainable, energy source the world has ever known. It would have paid every energy bill in the U.S.A. for maintenance fees only - FOREVER! It is an oil well that can NEVER run dry! After the millions of murders, and billions of dollars, borrowed from our children's futures and spent, with thousands of our own and others maimed and disfigured for life, millions of families utterly destroyed, ours and theirs, we are no closer to Iraqi oil production than the Iraqis are! The next time you hear a blithering idiot spoiled brat, drunken, drug addicted, sociopathic, rich daddie's boy, stand at a microphone and threaten YOUR safety with someone else's weapons, remember what you lost America, remember, and weep! If the U.S. had decided to be a moral people, and leaving Iraqi oil alone, decided to develop the South Western deserts, with the technology of the times, solar/thermal installations, for the same amount of money as that war cost, today, we would be tapping into the largest, renewable, sustainable, energy source the world has ever known. It would have paid every energy bill in the U.S.A. for maintenance fees only – FOREVER! It is an oil well that can NEVER run dry! After the millions of murders, and billions of dollars, borrowed from our children’s futures and spent, with thousands of our own and others maimed and disfigured for life, millions of families utterly destroyed, ours and theirs, we are no closer to Iraqi oil production than the Iraqis are!

The next time you hear a blithering idiot spoiled brat, drunken, drug addicted, sociopathic, rich daddie’s boy, stand at a microphone and threaten YOUR safety with someone else’s weapons, remember what you lost America, remember, and weep!

]]>