Subaru STI: Is Diesel the Intersection of Power and Fuel Economy?

 

car_photo6.jpgWe all know that fast cars are fun and fuel-sipping cars are environmentally responsible, but is there a middle ground?

Short of expensive electric sports cars like the Tesla Roadster, there may be a solution to be found in diesel. Not only can diesel cars be fueled with waste vegetable oil, biodiesel, or some mixture of these fuels, but diesel engines produce a lot of torque and get better fuel economy than their gasoline-powered brethren.





Autoexpress reports that the Impreza lineup will soon feature a 2.0L diesel engine sporting 148 bhp – but that engine could easily be tuned up to 180bhp for use in a sportier WRX model. This model could go 0-60 in under 7 seconds and wouldn’t top out until a respectable 140 mph.

Certainly impressive, but what we really care about is the fact that this engine could achieve up to 45mpg and reduce CO2 emissions 40% compared to the gasoline-powered STI.

Related Posts:

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6 Ways To Find And Use Biodiesel Anywhere (Part I)

Will Plug-In Hybrids Become the Standard?

Source: Autoexpress





About the Author

Benjamin Jones is a student of Dartmouth College and co-founder of EcoModder.com and writer at CollegeVegan.com. He is double majoring in Japanese and Linguistics, and is most interested in Sociolinguistics and Anthropology in Japan.

  • bgd73

    steps to understand diesel:

    1. throw the retarded number called “horsepower” into the ocean.

    2. foot lbs is the worker.All Engines.

    3. they have yet in the history of public automotives let one diesel get the gears and driveline it deserved. All diesels for cars have been grotesquely un-engineered gas engines with the wrong tranny, cooling, intakes, fuel scenarios and even heating/cooling. Ridiculous.

    Subaru is aware of it..I hope they get it right. A boxer, for a small diesel, is a very very strong design for the torque diesels like to give, and disperse the imperfections of every combustion cycle due to being sideways pistoned.Add a turbo, much NEEDED in the little diesel, and I guess i will even be competitive, as long as the gearing is good and precise for the diesel they created.

    This could be a winner of truth, more than a brand name. (much like subarus crazy years with the greatest design of the gas boxer: three main bearings).

  • bgd73

    steps to understand diesel:

    1. throw the retarded number called “horsepower” into the ocean.

    2. foot lbs is the worker.All Engines.

    3. they have yet in the history of public automotives let one diesel get the gears and driveline it deserved. All diesels for cars have been grotesquely un-engineered gas engines with the wrong tranny, cooling, intakes, fuel scenarios and even heating/cooling. Ridiculous.

    Subaru is aware of it..I hope they get it right. A boxer, for a small diesel, is a very very strong design for the torque diesels like to give, and disperse the imperfections of every combustion cycle due to being sideways pistoned.Add a turbo, much NEEDED in the little diesel, and I guess i will even be competitive, as long as the gearing is good and precise for the diesel they created.

    This could be a winner of truth, more than a brand name. (much like subarus crazy years with the greatest design of the gas boxer: three main bearings).

  • Harry

    Agree throw HP out the window. Its such a variable term that means little in terms of car performance.

    Couple a turbo AND a supercharger and you get the same effects of a turbo at low revolutions.

  • Harry

    Agree throw HP out the window. Its such a variable term that means little in terms of car performance.

    Couple a turbo AND a supercharger and you get the same effects of a turbo at low revolutions.

  • dan

    this article has nothing to do with the STI, a max of 180 hp and 0-60 time just under 7 seconds cannot compete with 300hp and 5.2 seconds the STI currently puts out. although deisel may work for the economy version, it will be a long time before it can compete with any real sports car.

  • dan

    this article has nothing to do with the STI, a max of 180 hp and 0-60 time just under 7 seconds cannot compete with 300hp and 5.2 seconds the STI currently puts out. although deisel may work for the economy version, it will be a long time before it can compete with any real sports car.

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  • Jim Carroll

    I drive a VW Jetta TDI, and get 45 mpg and am very happy with the power. The turbo diesel is a very smart computer-controlled engine. It’s still a little noisier than a gas engine, but that’s a small compromise considering the benefits.

  • Jim Carroll

    I drive a VW Jetta TDI, and get 45 mpg and am very happy with the power. The turbo diesel is a very smart computer-controlled engine. It’s still a little noisier than a gas engine, but that’s a small compromise considering the benefits.

  • Majutsu

    “they have yet in the history of public automotives let one diesel get the gears and driveline it deserved. All diesels for cars have been grotesquely un-engineered gas engines with the wrong tranny, cooling, intakes, fuel scenarios and even heating/cooling. Ridiculous.”

    Are you sure? I don’t like Mercedes Benzes because of it’s continuing expensive electrical/electronic problems since the late 80s, but they make solid engines/transmissions and the two Million Mile Cars in the world (original engines, not rebuilt) are Mercedes Benz Diesels automobiles.

  • Majutsu

    “they have yet in the history of public automotives let one diesel get the gears and driveline it deserved. All diesels for cars have been grotesquely un-engineered gas engines with the wrong tranny, cooling, intakes, fuel scenarios and even heating/cooling. Ridiculous.”

    Are you sure? I don’t like Mercedes Benzes because of it’s continuing expensive electrical/electronic problems since the late 80s, but they make solid engines/transmissions and the two Million Mile Cars in the world (original engines, not rebuilt) are Mercedes Benz Diesels automobiles.

  • Jack

    Europe has all kinds of performance diesel. I loved my slightly modified 1.9L VW TDI. 280 lbs/ft of torque, gave most V6s and small V8s a run for the money especially if there was a hill involved. It could be pushed to 135 mph but after 100 mph it accelerated slowly, it really needed that Euro 6th gear. It still managed to return a regualar 42mph and 650+ miles per tank.

    Subaru…BRING IT ON!!! I’ld love it in 5 door sedan or the Outback!

  • Jack

    Europe has all kinds of performance diesel. I loved my slightly modified 1.9L VW TDI. 280 lbs/ft of torque, gave most V6s and small V8s a run for the money especially if there was a hill involved. It could be pushed to 135 mph but after 100 mph it accelerated slowly, it really needed that Euro 6th gear. It still managed to return a regualar 42mph and 650+ miles per tank.

    Subaru…BRING IT ON!!! I’ld love it in 5 door sedan or the Outback!

  • This is a really good thing ! I agree ^ Foot lbs of TQ are best for sure, We sell tons of aftermarket subaru performance parts for subarus, and alot of ppl coming to our site look forward for a turbo diesel STI model

  • This is a really good thing ! I agree ^ Foot lbs of TQ are best for sure, We sell tons of aftermarket subaru performance parts for subarus, and alot of ppl coming to our site look forward for a turbo diesel STI model

  • Jimmy L

    Yea – diesel is actually very popular in Europe and some Asian countries. It’s surprising that it’s been largely eliminated in the US. People have many misconceptions about diesel (going back several decades) which simply aren’t true anymore. In fact, with advancements in technology, diesel cars actually are more environmentally friendly than gasoline-run cars! There’s some food for thought for ya…

    If you’re a drudge fan: drudgetracker.com

  • Jimmy L

    Yea – diesel is actually very popular in Europe and some Asian countries. It’s surprising that it’s been largely eliminated in the US. People have many misconceptions about diesel (going back several decades) which simply aren’t true anymore. In fact, with advancements in technology, diesel cars actually are more environmentally friendly than gasoline-run cars! There’s some food for thought for ya…

    If you’re a drudge fan: drudgetracker.com

  • Jimmy L

    Yea – diesel is actually very popular in Europe and some Asian countries. It’s surprising that it’s been largely eliminated in the US. People have many misconceptions about diesel (going back several decades) which simply aren’t true anymore. In fact, with advancements in technology, diesel cars actually are more environmentally friendly than gasoline-run cars! There’s some food for thought for ya…

    If you’re a drudge fan: drudgetracker.com

  • WongParts

    I think it’s a terrible idea and this world is teh fail with the way we are thinking nowadays. If people don’t stop stabbing each other in the backs, 2047 will be the end for it all.

  • WongParts

    I think it’s a terrible idea and this world is teh fail with the way we are thinking nowadays. If people don’t stop stabbing each other in the backs, 2047 will be the end for it all.

  • Hmmmph

    A WRX != an STi — the STi is a MUCH higher performance car than your base WRX — in its current incarnation, it’s a 305 HP beast. So, a 180 HP engine is, in fact ~ 41% lower powered than the 305 HP STi which this compares it to… so if you’re looking at power vs. CO2 emissions, it sounds like the diesel option doesn’t do much for you, now does it?

  • Hmmmph

    A WRX != an STi — the STi is a MUCH higher performance car than your base WRX — in its current incarnation, it’s a 305 HP beast. So, a 180 HP engine is, in fact ~ 41% lower powered than the 305 HP STi which this compares it to… so if you’re looking at power vs. CO2 emissions, it sounds like the diesel option doesn’t do much for you, now does it?

  • Hmmmph

    A WRX != an STi — the STi is a MUCH higher performance car than your base WRX — in its current incarnation, it’s a 305 HP beast. So, a 180 HP engine is, in fact ~ 41% lower powered than the 305 HP STi which this compares it to… so if you’re looking at power vs. CO2 emissions, it sounds like the diesel option doesn’t do much for you, now does it?

  • Galstaff

    Are you seriously comparing the 180hp diesel engine to the 300hp 2.5L turbo STI engine? Well then of course the diesel wins on CO2 emissions and MPG. Can you instead compare the 180hp diesel to the 2.0L turbo that’s in a regular WRX? Let’s not compare apples and oranges here.

  • Galstaff

    Are you seriously comparing the 180hp diesel engine to the 300hp 2.5L turbo STI engine? Well then of course the diesel wins on CO2 emissions and MPG. Can you instead compare the 180hp diesel to the 2.0L turbo that’s in a regular WRX? Let’s not compare apples and oranges here.

  • Colby

    bgd73:

    First you claim in (1) and (2) that horsepower is irrelevant and torque is king, and then argue in (3) that diesels don’t have the correct gearing…

    All that really matters is:

    A) Horsepower

    B) Gear ratio (ideally a CVT, but if not, your torque must spread over at least and octave to be useful for a limited number of gears)

  • Colby

    bgd73:

    First you claim in (1) and (2) that horsepower is irrelevant and torque is king, and then argue in (3) that diesels don’t have the correct gearing…

    All that really matters is:

    A) Horsepower

    B) Gear ratio (ideally a CVT, but if not, your torque must spread over at least and octave to be useful for a limited number of gears)

  • Matt

    A better reference car to see that Diesel is an intersection of efficiency and power is the BMW 1-series diesel.

    For example, the 120d with 177hp, 350Nm (258 ft lbs) torque while getting 39mpg city, 57 mpg rural, 49mpg combined.

    To be fair, the 1-series employs some engineering tricks beyond using diesel fuel to increase efficiency: regenerative braking, an oversized starter motor allows them to automatically switch off the diesel engine at traffic lights and fire it back up in the time it takes to depress the clutch, etc.

    Nonetheless, the petrol (gasoline) engine employs the same tricks and gets significantly lower efficiency for similar performance.

  • Matt

    A better reference car to see that Diesel is an intersection of efficiency and power is the BMW 1-series diesel.

    For example, the 120d with 177hp, 350Nm (258 ft lbs) torque while getting 39mpg city, 57 mpg rural, 49mpg combined.

    To be fair, the 1-series employs some engineering tricks beyond using diesel fuel to increase efficiency: regenerative braking, an oversized starter motor allows them to automatically switch off the diesel engine at traffic lights and fire it back up in the time it takes to depress the clutch, etc.

    Nonetheless, the petrol (gasoline) engine employs the same tricks and gets significantly lower efficiency for similar performance.

  • alex

    bgd73: horsepower is not just a retarded number and i’ll show you why.

    Imagine i’m trying to change a flat tire, and the guy at the shop when a little crazy with the impact wrench and i can’t get the lugs off. Thankfully, i happen to have a piece of pipe that i can put over my tire iron to give me more leverage. Lets go crazy and say it’s a good 4′ long, and to make things easier for myself, i put it horizontal and just stand on it, to try and break the lug free. Now, i weigh a good 200lbs, so with a 4′ bar i’m generating 800ft-lbs of torque, more than a F-350 Superduty!

    My point, in all this, is that one way of view horsepower is the speed at which you can apply torque. In my example above i’m generating 800ft-lbs, but no horsepower, because the bar isn’t moving. Torque *become* horsepower when it’s used to rotate something. I guess what i’m saying is that torque is great, and all things being equal a 200hp car with 200ft-lbs will be faster than a 200hp car with 100ft-lbs, but a 300hp car with 150ft-lb of torque will blow away a 150hp car with 300ft-lb of torque.

    The advantage of diesel is and always will be the relatively higher fuel efficiency, and the extreme durability of the engines.

  • alex

    bgd73: horsepower is not just a retarded number and i’ll show you why.

    Imagine i’m trying to change a flat tire, and the guy at the shop when a little crazy with the impact wrench and i can’t get the lugs off. Thankfully, i happen to have a piece of pipe that i can put over my tire iron to give me more leverage. Lets go crazy and say it’s a good 4′ long, and to make things easier for myself, i put it horizontal and just stand on it, to try and break the lug free. Now, i weigh a good 200lbs, so with a 4′ bar i’m generating 800ft-lbs of torque, more than a F-350 Superduty!

    My point, in all this, is that one way of view horsepower is the speed at which you can apply torque. In my example above i’m generating 800ft-lbs, but no horsepower, because the bar isn’t moving. Torque *become* horsepower when it’s used to rotate something. I guess what i’m saying is that torque is great, and all things being equal a 200hp car with 200ft-lbs will be faster than a 200hp car with 100ft-lbs, but a 300hp car with 150ft-lb of torque will blow away a 150hp car with 300ft-lb of torque.

    The advantage of diesel is and always will be the relatively higher fuel efficiency, and the extreme durability of the engines.

  • alex

    bgd73: horsepower is not just a retarded number and i’ll show you why.

    Imagine i’m trying to change a flat tire, and the guy at the shop when a little crazy with the impact wrench and i can’t get the lugs off. Thankfully, i happen to have a piece of pipe that i can put over my tire iron to give me more leverage. Lets go crazy and say it’s a good 4′ long, and to make things easier for myself, i put it horizontal and just stand on it, to try and break the lug free. Now, i weigh a good 200lbs, so with a 4′ bar i’m generating 800ft-lbs of torque, more than a F-350 Superduty!

    My point, in all this, is that one way of view horsepower is the speed at which you can apply torque. In my example above i’m generating 800ft-lbs, but no horsepower, because the bar isn’t moving. Torque *become* horsepower when it’s used to rotate something. I guess what i’m saying is that torque is great, and all things being equal a 200hp car with 200ft-lbs will be faster than a 200hp car with 100ft-lbs, but a 300hp car with 150ft-lb of torque will blow away a 150hp car with 300ft-lb of torque.

    The advantage of diesel is and always will be the relatively higher fuel efficiency, and the extreme durability of the engines.

  • What does this have to do with the STI? A base 140bhp engine hotted up to “not quite gasoline WRX standards” is a far cry from the STI model.

    How about, instead, they do a direct-injection flex-fuel vehicle? By the time it makes it to market, efficient (read: NOT CORN) ethanol production should be ramping up (2010 or so).

    And yeah, what bgd73 said. Gearing. Torque. Area under the powerband. Peak HP (or torque for that matter) figures are lame.

  • What does this have to do with the STI? A base 140bhp engine hotted up to “not quite gasoline WRX standards” is a far cry from the STI model.

    How about, instead, they do a direct-injection flex-fuel vehicle? By the time it makes it to market, efficient (read: NOT CORN) ethanol production should be ramping up (2010 or so).

    And yeah, what bgd73 said. Gearing. Torque. Area under the powerband. Peak HP (or torque for that matter) figures are lame.

  • justin

    it’s not true that horsepower is worthless. horsepower is representative of the amount of torque available at a given rpm. super high torque at lower rpm is the equivalent of lower torque at higher rpm. essentially, it’s rpm * torque = horsepower. good acceleration requires both. period. if you don’t understand this, take for instance, a 200 hp engine with 200 lb/ft of torque, and add a 2:1 gearbox in front of the tranny. you will effectively create an engine with 400 lb/feet of torque max, but can only turn at half the rpm. therefore, the horsepower rating will remain the same. will this improve the overall acceleration of the vehicle? no…

  • justin

    it’s not true that horsepower is worthless. horsepower is representative of the amount of torque available at a given rpm. super high torque at lower rpm is the equivalent of lower torque at higher rpm. essentially, it’s rpm * torque = horsepower. good acceleration requires both. period. if you don’t understand this, take for instance, a 200 hp engine with 200 lb/ft of torque, and add a 2:1 gearbox in front of the tranny. you will effectively create an engine with 400 lb/feet of torque max, but can only turn at half the rpm. therefore, the horsepower rating will remain the same. will this improve the overall acceleration of the vehicle? no…

  • justin

    it’s not true that horsepower is worthless. horsepower is representative of the amount of torque available at a given rpm. super high torque at lower rpm is the equivalent of lower torque at higher rpm. essentially, it’s rpm * torque = horsepower. good acceleration requires both. period. if you don’t understand this, take for instance, a 200 hp engine with 200 lb/ft of torque, and add a 2:1 gearbox in front of the tranny. you will effectively create an engine with 400 lb/feet of torque max, but can only turn at half the rpm. therefore, the horsepower rating will remain the same. will this improve the overall acceleration of the vehicle? no…

  • amigabill

    I love my 07 STI, but I’d also love to improve the fuel efficiency. Sounds like the engine in this article is a lot weaker than the STI engine/tune, perhaps they’ll address that after establishing it on the other Imprezas. Hopefully there will be an upgrade path (Subaru sanctioned or otherwise) to good Diesel engines on existing STI cars when things are working well.

  • amigabill

    I love my 07 STI, but I’d also love to improve the fuel efficiency. Sounds like the engine in this article is a lot weaker than the STI engine/tune, perhaps they’ll address that after establishing it on the other Imprezas. Hopefully there will be an upgrade path (Subaru sanctioned or otherwise) to good Diesel engines on existing STI cars when things are working well.

  • amigabill

    I love my 07 STI, but I’d also love to improve the fuel efficiency. Sounds like the engine in this article is a lot weaker than the STI engine/tune, perhaps they’ll address that after establishing it on the other Imprezas. Hopefully there will be an upgrade path (Subaru sanctioned or otherwise) to good Diesel engines on existing STI cars when things are working well.

  • jason

    dan there are some seriously fast diesel sports cars out there already made by Audi.Google up the Audi R8 =)

  • jason

    dan there are some seriously fast diesel sports cars out there already made by Audi.Google up the Audi R8 =)

  • jason

    dan there are some seriously fast diesel sports cars out there already made by Audi.Google up the Audi R8 =)

  • Fred Maxwell

    What matters is the area under the torque curve.

    I can give you a two-stroke engine tuned to produce a very high horsepower in a very narrow, stratospherically high RPM band, and there is no way that you can use that to effectively power a conventional car.

    After seeing Audi’s dominance of the LeMans series with their diesel powered race cars, how can anyone doubt that the diesel is a viable engine for a performance car?

  • Fred Maxwell

    What matters is the area under the torque curve.

    I can give you a two-stroke engine tuned to produce a very high horsepower in a very narrow, stratospherically high RPM band, and there is no way that you can use that to effectively power a conventional car.

    After seeing Audi’s dominance of the LeMans series with their diesel powered race cars, how can anyone doubt that the diesel is a viable engine for a performance car?

  • That Subaru model looks neat, I might make that my next car. 🙂

  • That Subaru model looks neat, I might make that my next car. 🙂

  • The way to get SERIOUS mileage out of diesels is with a series hybrid drivetrain, same as a diesel-electric submarine or locomotive.

    Diesel engine drives generator, generator drives batteries, batteries drive electric motor.

    The reason diesels work great in this scenario is that you can run them almost all the time at their “happy spot” narrow RPM range. Diesels have narrow powerbands, which is why semi tractors run up to 18 gears and top out at 2,200rpm or so.

    So build a small diesel with peak power/mileage at around 2800rpm and more or less just leave it there. Even muffler requirements are much simpler when they’re tuned for a very narrow RPM range.

    It gets better, Other than weight, there’s no efficiency penalty for running a grossly oversize electric motor – 400hp or so, no problem. So if you want to pull 10s in the quarter, just increase your battery bank a bit, run the same small economical diesel motor regardless.

    Finally, supercapacitors are going to drop our “battery” weight requirements way down, and fairly soon. And if our diesel series hybrid also has a wall plug, we could do without dead dinosaurs OR biodiesel around town most of the time, firing up the generator only when needed or for long hauls.

    Series hybrid sets are MUCH simpler and a bit lighter than the current parallel hybrids in which both the electric and internal combustion engines can mechanically drive the wheels.

    Series hybrid diesels are the answer.

  • The way to get SERIOUS mileage out of diesels is with a series hybrid drivetrain, same as a diesel-electric submarine or locomotive.

    Diesel engine drives generator, generator drives batteries, batteries drive electric motor.

    The reason diesels work great in this scenario is that you can run them almost all the time at their “happy spot” narrow RPM range. Diesels have narrow powerbands, which is why semi tractors run up to 18 gears and top out at 2,200rpm or so.

    So build a small diesel with peak power/mileage at around 2800rpm and more or less just leave it there. Even muffler requirements are much simpler when they’re tuned for a very narrow RPM range.

    It gets better, Other than weight, there’s no efficiency penalty for running a grossly oversize electric motor – 400hp or so, no problem. So if you want to pull 10s in the quarter, just increase your battery bank a bit, run the same small economical diesel motor regardless.

    Finally, supercapacitors are going to drop our “battery” weight requirements way down, and fairly soon. And if our diesel series hybrid also has a wall plug, we could do without dead dinosaurs OR biodiesel around town most of the time, firing up the generator only when needed or for long hauls.

    Series hybrid sets are MUCH simpler and a bit lighter than the current parallel hybrids in which both the electric and internal combustion engines can mechanically drive the wheels.

    Series hybrid diesels are the answer.

  • That Subaru model looks neat, I might make that my next car. 🙂

  • The way to get SERIOUS mileage out of diesels is with a series hybrid drivetrain, same as a diesel-electric submarine or locomotive.

    Diesel engine drives generator, generator drives batteries, batteries drive electric motor.

    The reason diesels work great in this scenario is that you can run them almost all the time at their “happy spot” narrow RPM range. Diesels have narrow powerbands, which is why semi tractors run up to 18 gears and top out at 2,200rpm or so.

    So build a small diesel with peak power/mileage at around 2800rpm and more or less just leave it there. Even muffler requirements are much simpler when they’re tuned for a very narrow RPM range.

    It gets better, Other than weight, there’s no efficiency penalty for running a grossly oversize electric motor – 400hp or so, no problem. So if you want to pull 10s in the quarter, just increase your battery bank a bit, run the same small economical diesel motor regardless.

    Finally, supercapacitors are going to drop our “battery” weight requirements way down, and fairly soon. And if our diesel series hybrid also has a wall plug, we could do without dead dinosaurs OR biodiesel around town most of the time, firing up the generator only when needed or for long hauls.

    Series hybrid sets are MUCH simpler and a bit lighter than the current parallel hybrids in which both the electric and internal combustion engines can mechanically drive the wheels.

    Series hybrid diesels are the answer.

  • Jack

    That diesel will never beat the STI in a street race but if you want to run them on a mountainious coarse with lots of twisties I bet that diesel would out do the STI. You need to see a Dyno plot of a Diesel. They have more power over their whole rpm range rather then a quick peak of a gasser. The diesel would always be in it’s power band and be able to come out of corner with immediate power without having to drop a gear.

    Diesels are just a much nicer to drive, you never have to down shift to pass or climb.

    My concern is once you start moding that diesel, all wheel drive will be awfully expensive to fix. You could easily tweak that motor to 400-500 lbsft of torque.

  • Jack

    That diesel will never beat the STI in a street race but if you want to run them on a mountainious coarse with lots of twisties I bet that diesel would out do the STI. You need to see a Dyno plot of a Diesel. They have more power over their whole rpm range rather then a quick peak of a gasser. The diesel would always be in it’s power band and be able to come out of corner with immediate power without having to drop a gear.

    Diesels are just a much nicer to drive, you never have to down shift to pass or climb.

    My concern is once you start moding that diesel, all wheel drive will be awfully expensive to fix. You could easily tweak that motor to 400-500 lbsft of torque.

  • Jack

    That diesel will never beat the STI in a street race but if you want to run them on a mountainious coarse with lots of twisties I bet that diesel would out do the STI. You need to see a Dyno plot of a Diesel. They have more power over their whole rpm range rather then a quick peak of a gasser. The diesel would always be in it’s power band and be able to come out of corner with immediate power without having to drop a gear.

    Diesels are just a much nicer to drive, you never have to down shift to pass or climb.

    My concern is once you start moding that diesel, all wheel drive will be awfully expensive to fix. You could easily tweak that motor to 400-500 lbsft of torque.

  • Hmmmph

    @Jack: You’ve never driven and STi, have you? You really don’t need to downshift to pass or climb in them either (and not that often in their lesser sibling, the base WRX)… And, AFAIK, diesels actually tend to have a thinner power-band and thus need more gears to keep it in that happy spot. Regardless, Jim’s point is spot-on — series hybrids are the way to go, especially as we see supercapacitors enter the market.

  • Hmmmph

    @Jack: You’ve never driven and STi, have you? You really don’t need to downshift to pass or climb in them either (and not that often in their lesser sibling, the base WRX)… And, AFAIK, diesels actually tend to have a thinner power-band and thus need more gears to keep it in that happy spot. Regardless, Jim’s point is spot-on — series hybrids are the way to go, especially as we see supercapacitors enter the market.

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  • Too bad we don’t see any serious talk regarding a desil-hybred-plugin. That would probably be the most practical use of our current technology.

  • Too bad we don’t see any serious talk regarding a desil-hybred-plugin. That would probably be the most practical use of our current technology.

  • Too bad we don’t see any serious talk regarding a desil-hybred-plugin. That would probably be the most practical use of our current technology.

  • John

    So 2002. Subaru doesn’t get it. Performance is mpg, or miles per dollar – not winning the ridiculous race to the next stop light. If they can’t produce a car that beats Prius mileage then they can’t produce. I own an ’06 Outback and an ’07 hybrid. The gas guzzler is on its way out.

  • John

    So 2002. Subaru doesn’t get it. Performance is mpg, or miles per dollar – not winning the ridiculous race to the next stop light. If they can’t produce a car that beats Prius mileage then they can’t produce. I own an ’06 Outback and an ’07 hybrid. The gas guzzler is on its way out.

  • John

    So 2002. Subaru doesn’t get it. Performance is mpg, or miles per dollar – not winning the ridiculous race to the next stop light. If they can’t produce a car that beats Prius mileage then they can’t produce. I own an ’06 Outback and an ’07 hybrid. The gas guzzler is on its way out.

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  • Frank Lenzotti

    It’s about time diesels caught on in the US like the rest of the world. I love to see a lot more choices in the market place.

    I have a 2005 Passat wagon and I can easily top 40 mpg if I drive 60 mph. It drops to 36 mpg at 80 mph. It starts easily in very cold northern Michigan winters and has wonderful aceleration. What more could you ask?

  • Frank Lenzotti

    It’s about time diesels caught on in the US like the rest of the world. I love to see a lot more choices in the market place.

    I have a 2005 Passat wagon and I can easily top 40 mpg if I drive 60 mph. It drops to 36 mpg at 80 mph. It starts easily in very cold northern Michigan winters and has wonderful aceleration. What more could you ask?

  • Frank Lenzotti

    It’s about time diesels caught on in the US like the rest of the world. I love to see a lot more choices in the market place.

    I have a 2005 Passat wagon and I can easily top 40 mpg if I drive 60 mph. It drops to 36 mpg at 80 mph. It starts easily in very cold northern Michigan winters and has wonderful aceleration. What more could you ask?

  • SF Guy

    There will always be the consumer that wants the STI gasser version of the WRX. Though most of the people in the US have zero clue about diesel other than the big trucks have them.

    As fuel prices finally start to hit prices that make US consumers really think about their car choices milege will be a top priority over 0-60mph numbers under 6seconds. Road trip cars capable of hauling 4+ people + gear that can get into the 30+mpg range will sell faster than they can be built. A road trip wagon that has AWD and some off road ability will be an even bigger eye opener if it posts 30+mpg. The thousands of SUV owners who are selling or will be selling really do want the space and capability of AWD. Very few need towing capablity over 3000lbs.

    Subaru – BMW are in a nice position where they could be the first to the US market with a well built durable hauler that posts 30+mpg.

    VW’s diesels will remain a specialty unless VW finally sees the light after 20+ years of piss poor quality and engineering hits a slam dunk with their new 2.0L diesels. I own a VW 1.8T its crap – funny I didn’t learn after the first two VW’s I owned. We will never own a VW again but the BMW- Subaru-Nissan diesel passenger cars are at the top of our list. If Subaru comes out with a 7 passenger flat 6 capable of 30+mpg it will be a no brainer our 2001 Legacy will be replaced with the diesel subaru. If Subaru drops the ball BMW will be on our list though doubt it will fit our budget.

  • SF Guy

    There will always be the consumer that wants the STI gasser version of the WRX. Though most of the people in the US have zero clue about diesel other than the big trucks have them.

    As fuel prices finally start to hit prices that make US consumers really think about their car choices milege will be a top priority over 0-60mph numbers under 6seconds. Road trip cars capable of hauling 4+ people + gear that can get into the 30+mpg range will sell faster than they can be built. A road trip wagon that has AWD and some off road ability will be an even bigger eye opener if it posts 30+mpg. The thousands of SUV owners who are selling or will be selling really do want the space and capability of AWD. Very few need towing capablity over 3000lbs.

    Subaru – BMW are in a nice position where they could be the first to the US market with a well built durable hauler that posts 30+mpg.

    VW’s diesels will remain a specialty unless VW finally sees the light after 20+ years of piss poor quality and engineering hits a slam dunk with their new 2.0L diesels. I own a VW 1.8T its crap – funny I didn’t learn after the first two VW’s I owned. We will never own a VW again but the BMW- Subaru-Nissan diesel passenger cars are at the top of our list. If Subaru comes out with a 7 passenger flat 6 capable of 30+mpg it will be a no brainer our 2001 Legacy will be replaced with the diesel subaru. If Subaru drops the ball BMW will be on our list though doubt it will fit our budget.

  • SF Guy

    There will always be the consumer that wants the STI gasser version of the WRX. Though most of the people in the US have zero clue about diesel other than the big trucks have them.

    As fuel prices finally start to hit prices that make US consumers really think about their car choices milege will be a top priority over 0-60mph numbers under 6seconds. Road trip cars capable of hauling 4+ people + gear that can get into the 30+mpg range will sell faster than they can be built. A road trip wagon that has AWD and some off road ability will be an even bigger eye opener if it posts 30+mpg. The thousands of SUV owners who are selling or will be selling really do want the space and capability of AWD. Very few need towing capablity over 3000lbs.

    Subaru – BMW are in a nice position where they could be the first to the US market with a well built durable hauler that posts 30+mpg.

    VW’s diesels will remain a specialty unless VW finally sees the light after 20+ years of piss poor quality and engineering hits a slam dunk with their new 2.0L diesels. I own a VW 1.8T its crap – funny I didn’t learn after the first two VW’s I owned. We will never own a VW again but the BMW- Subaru-Nissan diesel passenger cars are at the top of our list. If Subaru comes out with a 7 passenger flat 6 capable of 30+mpg it will be a no brainer our 2001 Legacy will be replaced with the diesel subaru. If Subaru drops the ball BMW will be on our list though doubt it will fit our budget.

  • Agree with the article. And the new Impreza 2.0D will be on sale soon…though not in the US sadly.

    Edmund’s Inside Line gives some good info on why:

    http://wrxfanatics.com/blog/2008/09/subarus-20d-not-coming-stateside-anytime-soon/

    Also, Subaru is showing off the new Forester 2.0D and Impreza 2.0D at the Paris Motor Show this October!

    http://wrxfanatics.com/blog/2008/09/fhi-bringing-the-diesel-boxer-to-the-2008-paris-motor-show/

    Hope you find some of this useful!

  • Agree with the article. And the new Impreza 2.0D will be on sale soon…though not in the US sadly.

    Edmund’s Inside Line gives some good info on why:

    http://wrxfanatics.com/blog/2008/09/subarus-20d-not-coming-stateside-anytime-soon/

    Also, Subaru is showing off the new Forester 2.0D and Impreza 2.0D at the Paris Motor Show this October!

    http://wrxfanatics.com/blog/2008/09/fhi-bringing-the-diesel-boxer-to-the-2008-paris-motor-show/

    Hope you find some of this useful!

  • Agree with the article. And the new Impreza 2.0D will be on sale soon…though not in the US sadly.

    Edmund’s Inside Line gives some good info on why:

    http://wrxfanatics.com/blog/2008/09/subarus-20d-not-coming-stateside-anytime-soon/

    Also, Subaru is showing off the new Forester 2.0D and Impreza 2.0D at the Paris Motor Show this October!

    http://wrxfanatics.com/blog/2008/09/fhi-bringing-the-diesel-boxer-to-the-2008-paris-motor-show/

    Hope you find some of this useful!

  • I lived in Europe for years and saw and drove all kinds of performance diesel. I loved my slightly modified 1.9L VW TDI. 280 lbs/ft of torque, gave most V6s and small V8s a run for the money especially if there was a hill involved. It could be pushed to 135 mph but after 100 mph it accelerated slowly, it really needed that Euro 6th gear. It still managed to return a regualar 42mph and 650+ miles per tank. The Germans know how to build cars.

  • I lived in Europe for years and saw and drove all kinds of performance diesel. I loved my slightly modified 1.9L VW TDI. 280 lbs/ft of torque, gave most V6s and small V8s a run for the money especially if there was a hill involved. It could be pushed to 135 mph but after 100 mph it accelerated slowly, it really needed that Euro 6th gear. It still managed to return a regualar 42mph and 650+ miles per tank. The Germans know how to build cars.

  • Uncle B

    Fact of thermodynamics! Diesels, due to higher compression rations are a full 40% more efficient! Spark ignition engines will never beat that fact! Small light diesel/electric will fill a gap in the new electric bullet train intercity America, coming in the troughs of the next natural down cycle of our economy, with the greater depression, hunger, and great sorrows in America! – not caused by climate change! – not caused by government! caused by sloth and gluttony in America in combination with a rising Asian fact of life! The American dollar no longer commands 80% of world resources because it now competes with a stronger “Yuan” for world resources! We will share with Asians, like it or not! The party is over America, the folks that made the Corvette on welfare! doesn’t that fact tell you something? Toyota with eco-box cars thrives in America along with Honda, but Pontiac is gone! forever! The changes are already underway! Want to see where the folks that built the “Merry Oldsmobile’s live? SEE: http://uprooted.jessicareeder.com/2009/09/detroit-and-the-100-dollar-house/comment-page-1/#comment-3003 And weep! They are gone! GM(America)’s “Miracle Worker CEO” Fritzie, just up and quit the other day! Even the biggest rats are leaving the GM(America) ship now, and all the while, GM(China) turns a 30% profit! Where’s your money going? – to the Shanghai, Beijing, and Hang Seng markets for a sure bet! Our stock market propped up falsely by massive money-printing exercises while unemployables roam the streets foraging for food! Stinks! Just Stinks! The next crash a real “Lulu” with no help at all for Americans! Can you imagine a nation so stupid! Simply by changing to the Mercedes blue TEC diesels we can save a full, guaranteed, 40% on our imported, foreign oil bill, a year! We still buy Camero’s with 500 Hp. engines and swear by gasoline! Even with better, sulfur free diesel available, we cannot get off of gasoline and will likely see our nation condemned to bankruptcy for it! Are the additives in gasoline numbing our minds? WTF?

  • Uncle B

    Fact of thermodynamics! Diesels, due to higher compression rations are a full 40% more efficient! Spark ignition engines will never beat that fact! Small light diesel/electric will fill a gap in the new electric bullet train intercity America, coming in the troughs of the next natural down cycle of our economy, with the greater depression, hunger, and great sorrows in America! – not caused by climate change! – not caused by government! caused by sloth and gluttony in America in combination with a rising Asian fact of life! The American dollar no longer commands 80% of world resources because it now competes with a stronger “Yuan” for world resources! We will share with Asians, like it or not! The party is over America, the folks that made the Corvette on welfare! doesn’t that fact tell you something? Toyota with eco-box cars thrives in America along with Honda, but Pontiac is gone! forever! The changes are already underway! Want to see where the folks that built the “Merry Oldsmobile’s live? SEE: http://uprooted.jessicareeder.com/2009/09/detroit-and-the-100-dollar-house/comment-page-1/#comment-3003 And weep! They are gone! GM(America)’s “Miracle Worker CEO” Fritzie, just up and quit the other day! Even the biggest rats are leaving the GM(America) ship now, and all the while, GM(China) turns a 30% profit! Where’s your money going? – to the Shanghai, Beijing, and Hang Seng markets for a sure bet! Our stock market propped up falsely by massive money-printing exercises while unemployables roam the streets foraging for food! Stinks! Just Stinks! The next crash a real “Lulu” with no help at all for Americans! Can you imagine a nation so stupid! Simply by changing to the Mercedes blue TEC diesels we can save a full, guaranteed, 40% on our imported, foreign oil bill, a year! We still buy Camero’s with 500 Hp. engines and swear by gasoline! Even with better, sulfur free diesel available, we cannot get off of gasoline and will likely see our nation condemned to bankruptcy for it! Are the additives in gasoline numbing our minds? WTF?