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	<title>Comments on: ADM to Pump Ethanol Plant&#039;s CO2 Under Illinois</title>
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	<link>http://gas2.org/2007/12/21/adm-to-pump-ethanol-plants-co2-under-illinois/</link>
	<description>What is the future of fuel?  What&#039;s new?  What&#039;s next?  Since 2007, Gas 2 has covered a rapidly changing world coming to terms with its oil addiction.</description>
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		<title>By: Michael J. Schmitz</title>
		<link>http://gas2.org/2007/12/21/adm-to-pump-ethanol-plants-co2-under-illinois/#comment-136</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael J. Schmitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 04:32:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gas2.org/2007/12/21/adm-to-pump-ethanol-plants-co2-under-illinois/#comment-136</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d say it does&#039;nt matter, because if any of it escaped into the atmosphere, it would decipate less than 500 feet above the EARTH&quot;S surface, like all non-solids do normally. That&#039;s why the E.P.A. COULD&#039;NT PROVE TO CONGRESS LAST YEAR, THAT ALL NON-SOLIDS HARM THE OZONE, BECAUSE NATURE WONT ALLOW THE OZONE TO BE PENETRATED BY ANYTHING NON-SOLIDS FROM EARTH, LIKE THE REMNANTS OF THE ATOM BOMB OR THE HYDROGEN BOMB EXPERIMENTS. ITS SIMPLE LOGIC. HAVENT YOU SEEN A FOREST FIRE, IF THE SMOKE WENT TO THE OZONE, THEN HOW COULD HELICOPTERS SEE TO PUT THE FIRE OUT AT 180 FEET. HAVE A NICE DAY.   MIKE</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d say it does&#8217;nt matter, because if any of it escaped into the atmosphere, it would decipate less than 500 feet above the EARTH&#8221;S surface, like all non-solids do normally. That&#8217;s why the E.P.A. COULD&#8217;NT PROVE TO CONGRESS LAST YEAR, THAT ALL NON-SOLIDS HARM THE OZONE, BECAUSE NATURE WONT ALLOW THE OZONE TO BE PENETRATED BY ANYTHING NON-SOLIDS FROM EARTH, LIKE THE REMNANTS OF THE ATOM BOMB OR THE HYDROGEN BOMB EXPERIMENTS. ITS SIMPLE LOGIC. HAVENT YOU SEEN A FOREST FIRE, IF THE SMOKE WENT TO THE OZONE, THEN HOW COULD HELICOPTERS SEE TO PUT THE FIRE OUT AT 180 FEET. HAVE A NICE DAY.   MIKE</p>
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		<title>By: Ford&#8217;s Coal-to-Liquids Concept Vehicle: Release in 2010 : Gas 2.0</title>
		<link>http://gas2.org/2007/12/21/adm-to-pump-ethanol-plants-co2-under-illinois/#comment-135</link>
		<dc:creator>Ford&#8217;s Coal-to-Liquids Concept Vehicle: Release in 2010 : Gas 2.0</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 18:49:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gas2.org/2007/12/21/adm-to-pump-ethanol-plants-co2-under-illinois/#comment-135</guid>
		<description>[...] These aren&#8217;t jokes (but maybe should be): Air Force Will Be Coal-Powered by 2011 GM Unveils The E85 ‘Green Hummer’ ADM to Pump Ethanol Plant’s CO2 Under Illinois  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] These aren&#8217;t jokes (but maybe should be): Air Force Will Be Coal-Powered by 2011 GM Unveils The E85 ‘Green Hummer’ ADM to Pump Ethanol Plant’s CO2 Under Illinois  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Clayton B. Cornell</title>
		<link>http://gas2.org/2007/12/21/adm-to-pump-ethanol-plants-co2-under-illinois/#comment-134</link>
		<dc:creator>Clayton B. Cornell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Dec 2007 23:45:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gas2.org/2007/12/21/adm-to-pump-ethanol-plants-co2-under-illinois/#comment-134</guid>
		<description>Rachel, thanks for the comment.

I&#039;ll have to find my notes on the ocean-seeding hypothesis.  I had the chance to attend a discussion earlier this year on the ongoing experiment to dump vast quantities of iron into the ocean.  As it turns out, iron is the crucial limiting nutrient for phytoplankton.  Add iron and you get dramatic increases in photosynthesis that amounts to sucking carbon dioxide out of the air.  The thought is that this carbon dioxide will be sequestered deeply in the ocean (and this is where my memory gets hazy).  Somehow the CO2 won&#039;t make it back into the atmosphere, at least for a long time.  The scientist involved in the discussion couldn&#039;t answer the big question, which is what happens to oceanic ecosystems when you modify nutrient availability on this kind of scale.



I guess I would answer your question with an analogy:  imagine you&#039;re in a bathtub and you can&#039;t turn the faucet off.  You could come up with all kinds of ways to get rid of the water, like scooping it out, trying to evaporate it with a portable heater, drinking it, etc, but all with consequence that aren&#039;t always clear from the outset (ie floor of the bathroom gets wet, you get sick from drinking bathwater, etc).  If the problem is really so important, why not slow the faucet.  All the &#039;solutions&#039; to keep the bathtub from overflowing are useless without doing this, anyway.



But that&#039;s just my thinking.  Any additional input on this would be appreciated...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rachel, thanks for the comment.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll have to find my notes on the ocean-seeding hypothesis.  I had the chance to attend a discussion earlier this year on the ongoing experiment to dump vast quantities of iron into the ocean.  As it turns out, iron is the crucial limiting nutrient for phytoplankton.  Add iron and you get dramatic increases in photosynthesis that amounts to sucking carbon dioxide out of the air.  The thought is that this carbon dioxide will be sequestered deeply in the ocean (and this is where my memory gets hazy).  Somehow the CO2 won&#8217;t make it back into the atmosphere, at least for a long time.  The scientist involved in the discussion couldn&#8217;t answer the big question, which is what happens to oceanic ecosystems when you modify nutrient availability on this kind of scale.</p>
<p>I guess I would answer your question with an analogy:  imagine you&#8217;re in a bathtub and you can&#8217;t turn the faucet off.  You could come up with all kinds of ways to get rid of the water, like scooping it out, trying to evaporate it with a portable heater, drinking it, etc, but all with consequence that aren&#8217;t always clear from the outset (ie floor of the bathroom gets wet, you get sick from drinking bathwater, etc).  If the problem is really so important, why not slow the faucet.  All the &#8216;solutions&#8217; to keep the bathtub from overflowing are useless without doing this, anyway.</p>
<p>But that&#8217;s just my thinking.  Any additional input on this would be appreciated&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Clayton B. Cornell</title>
		<link>http://gas2.org/2007/12/21/adm-to-pump-ethanol-plants-co2-under-illinois/#comment-21814</link>
		<dc:creator>Clayton B. Cornell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Dec 2007 23:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gas2.org/2007/12/21/adm-to-pump-ethanol-plants-co2-under-illinois/#comment-21814</guid>
		<description>Rachel, thanks for the comment.

I&#039;ll have to find my notes on the ocean-seeding hypothesis.  I had the chance to attend a discussion earlier this year on the ongoing experiment to dump vast quantities of iron into the ocean.  As it turns out, iron is the crucial limiting nutrient for phytoplankton.  Add iron and you get dramatic increases in photosynthesis that amounts to sucking carbon dioxide out of the air.  The thought is that this carbon dioxide will be sequestered deeply in the ocean (and this is where my memory gets hazy).  Somehow the CO2 won&#039;t make it back into the atmosphere, at least for a long time.  The scientist involved in the discussion couldn&#039;t answer the big question, which is what happens to oceanic ecosystems when you modify nutrient availability on this kind of scale.



I guess I would answer your question with an analogy:  imagine you&#039;re in a bathtub and you can&#039;t turn the faucet off.  You could come up with all kinds of ways to get rid of the water, like scooping it out, trying to evaporate it with a portable heater, drinking it, etc, but all with consequence that aren&#039;t always clear from the outset (ie floor of the bathroom gets wet, you get sick from drinking bathwater, etc).  If the problem is really so important, why not slow the faucet.  All the &#039;solutions&#039; to keep the bathtub from overflowing are useless without doing this, anyway.



But that&#039;s just my thinking.  Any additional input on this would be appreciated...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rachel, thanks for the comment.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll have to find my notes on the ocean-seeding hypothesis.  I had the chance to attend a discussion earlier this year on the ongoing experiment to dump vast quantities of iron into the ocean.  As it turns out, iron is the crucial limiting nutrient for phytoplankton.  Add iron and you get dramatic increases in photosynthesis that amounts to sucking carbon dioxide out of the air.  The thought is that this carbon dioxide will be sequestered deeply in the ocean (and this is where my memory gets hazy).  Somehow the CO2 won&#8217;t make it back into the atmosphere, at least for a long time.  The scientist involved in the discussion couldn&#8217;t answer the big question, which is what happens to oceanic ecosystems when you modify nutrient availability on this kind of scale.</p>
<p>I guess I would answer your question with an analogy:  imagine you&#8217;re in a bathtub and you can&#8217;t turn the faucet off.  You could come up with all kinds of ways to get rid of the water, like scooping it out, trying to evaporate it with a portable heater, drinking it, etc, but all with consequence that aren&#8217;t always clear from the outset (ie floor of the bathroom gets wet, you get sick from drinking bathwater, etc).  If the problem is really so important, why not slow the faucet.  All the &#8216;solutions&#8217; to keep the bathtub from overflowing are useless without doing this, anyway.</p>
<p>But that&#8217;s just my thinking.  Any additional input on this would be appreciated&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Clayton B. Cornell</title>
		<link>http://gas2.org/2007/12/21/adm-to-pump-ethanol-plants-co2-under-illinois/#comment-21815</link>
		<dc:creator>Clayton B. Cornell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Dec 2007 23:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gas2.org/2007/12/21/adm-to-pump-ethanol-plants-co2-under-illinois/#comment-21815</guid>
		<description>Rachel, thanks for the comment.

I&#039;ll have to find my notes on the ocean-seeding hypothesis.  I had the chance to attend a discussion earlier this year on the ongoing experiment to dump vast quantities of iron into the ocean.  As it turns out, iron is the crucial limiting nutrient for phytoplankton.  Add iron and you get dramatic increases in photosynthesis that amounts to sucking carbon dioxide out of the air.  The thought is that this carbon dioxide will be sequestered deeply in the ocean (and this is where my memory gets hazy).  Somehow the CO2 won&#039;t make it back into the atmosphere, at least for a long time.  The scientist involved in the discussion couldn&#039;t answer the big question, which is what happens to oceanic ecosystems when you modify nutrient availability on this kind of scale.



I guess I would answer your question with an analogy:  imagine you&#039;re in a bathtub and you can&#039;t turn the faucet off.  You could come up with all kinds of ways to get rid of the water, like scooping it out, trying to evaporate it with a portable heater, drinking it, etc, but all with consequence that aren&#039;t always clear from the outset (ie floor of the bathroom gets wet, you get sick from drinking bathwater, etc).  If the problem is really so important, why not slow the faucet.  All the &#039;solutions&#039; to keep the bathtub from overflowing are useless without doing this, anyway.



But that&#039;s just my thinking.  Any additional input on this would be appreciated...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rachel, thanks for the comment.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll have to find my notes on the ocean-seeding hypothesis.  I had the chance to attend a discussion earlier this year on the ongoing experiment to dump vast quantities of iron into the ocean.  As it turns out, iron is the crucial limiting nutrient for phytoplankton.  Add iron and you get dramatic increases in photosynthesis that amounts to sucking carbon dioxide out of the air.  The thought is that this carbon dioxide will be sequestered deeply in the ocean (and this is where my memory gets hazy).  Somehow the CO2 won&#8217;t make it back into the atmosphere, at least for a long time.  The scientist involved in the discussion couldn&#8217;t answer the big question, which is what happens to oceanic ecosystems when you modify nutrient availability on this kind of scale.</p>
<p>I guess I would answer your question with an analogy:  imagine you&#8217;re in a bathtub and you can&#8217;t turn the faucet off.  You could come up with all kinds of ways to get rid of the water, like scooping it out, trying to evaporate it with a portable heater, drinking it, etc, but all with consequence that aren&#8217;t always clear from the outset (ie floor of the bathroom gets wet, you get sick from drinking bathwater, etc).  If the problem is really so important, why not slow the faucet.  All the &#8216;solutions&#8217; to keep the bathtub from overflowing are useless without doing this, anyway.</p>
<p>But that&#8217;s just my thinking.  Any additional input on this would be appreciated&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: dad</title>
		<link>http://gas2.org/2007/12/21/adm-to-pump-ethanol-plants-co2-under-illinois/#comment-133</link>
		<dc:creator>dad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Dec 2007 21:44:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gas2.org/2007/12/21/adm-to-pump-ethanol-plants-co2-under-illinois/#comment-133</guid>
		<description>See my previous response.  I successfully found answer to other question</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>See my previous response.  I successfully found answer to other question</p>
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		<title>By: dad</title>
		<link>http://gas2.org/2007/12/21/adm-to-pump-ethanol-plants-co2-under-illinois/#comment-21813</link>
		<dc:creator>dad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Dec 2007 21:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gas2.org/2007/12/21/adm-to-pump-ethanol-plants-co2-under-illinois/#comment-21813</guid>
		<description>See my previous response.  I successfully found answer to other question</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>See my previous response.  I successfully found answer to other question</p>
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		<title>By: Rachel</title>
		<link>http://gas2.org/2007/12/21/adm-to-pump-ethanol-plants-co2-under-illinois/#comment-132</link>
		<dc:creator>Rachel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Dec 2007 19:58:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gas2.org/2007/12/21/adm-to-pump-ethanol-plants-co2-under-illinois/#comment-132</guid>
		<description>Clayton, I&#039;d be interested to hear your take sometime on the other carbon sequestration strategies you mentioned in passing -- particularly ocean seeding.  I have a similar sense that all such plans are ill-conceived, but was unable to successfully answer recently why I&#039;m so quick to dismiss these possibilities if I really believe in the imminence of catastrophic climate change.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clayton, I&#8217;d be interested to hear your take sometime on the other carbon sequestration strategies you mentioned in passing &#8212; particularly ocean seeding.  I have a similar sense that all such plans are ill-conceived, but was unable to successfully answer recently why I&#8217;m so quick to dismiss these possibilities if I really believe in the imminence of catastrophic climate change.</p>
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		<title>By: Rachel</title>
		<link>http://gas2.org/2007/12/21/adm-to-pump-ethanol-plants-co2-under-illinois/#comment-21812</link>
		<dc:creator>Rachel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Dec 2007 19:58:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gas2.org/2007/12/21/adm-to-pump-ethanol-plants-co2-under-illinois/#comment-21812</guid>
		<description>Clayton, I&#039;d be interested to hear your take sometime on the other carbon sequestration strategies you mentioned in passing -- particularly ocean seeding.  I have a similar sense that all such plans are ill-conceived, but was unable to successfully answer recently why I&#039;m so quick to dismiss these possibilities if I really believe in the imminence of catastrophic climate change.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clayton, I&#8217;d be interested to hear your take sometime on the other carbon sequestration strategies you mentioned in passing &#8212; particularly ocean seeding.  I have a similar sense that all such plans are ill-conceived, but was unable to successfully answer recently why I&#8217;m so quick to dismiss these possibilities if I really believe in the imminence of catastrophic climate change.</p>
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		<title>By: Maarika</title>
		<link>http://gas2.org/2007/12/21/adm-to-pump-ethanol-plants-co2-under-illinois/#comment-131</link>
		<dc:creator>Maarika</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Dec 2007 01:45:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gas2.org/2007/12/21/adm-to-pump-ethanol-plants-co2-under-illinois/#comment-131</guid>
		<description>This makes me so angry that I could just explode. I don&#039;t know how familiar you are with ADM or other agribusiness giants, but here&#039;s a rough sketch of how I see this situation:



-Back in WWII, the government subsidized the growing of corn. Okay, that&#039;s fine. We needed more food.

-After WWII, the subsidies didn&#039;t stop. Agribusinesses such as ADM, ConAgra, and Monsanto began to gain power and have been lobbying the government for decades to keep the subsidies coming.

-Small farms get bought up by agribusinesse and agribusinesses grow the crops they know will get subsidized. On a VAST SCALE.

-Inevitably, there is a surplus of corn. What to do with it? Spend millions of dollars on research to convert this extra corn into something else - e.g. high fructose corn syrup and, most recently, ethanol.

-Corn is NOT the most efficient ethanol crop. By any means.

-Ethanol production from corn *creates* more pollution than its use will mitigate!

-The passage of the ethanol bill and the carbon sequestration funding indicate that the government is continuing its diseased partnership with agribusinesses.



... Sorry for the rant.



Happy Holidays.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This makes me so angry that I could just explode. I don&#8217;t know how familiar you are with ADM or other agribusiness giants, but here&#8217;s a rough sketch of how I see this situation:</p>
<p>-Back in WWII, the government subsidized the growing of corn. Okay, that&#8217;s fine. We needed more food.</p>
<p>-After WWII, the subsidies didn&#8217;t stop. Agribusinesses such as ADM, ConAgra, and Monsanto began to gain power and have been lobbying the government for decades to keep the subsidies coming.</p>
<p>-Small farms get bought up by agribusinesse and agribusinesses grow the crops they know will get subsidized. On a VAST SCALE.</p>
<p>-Inevitably, there is a surplus of corn. What to do with it? Spend millions of dollars on research to convert this extra corn into something else &#8211; e.g. high fructose corn syrup and, most recently, ethanol.</p>
<p>-Corn is NOT the most efficient ethanol crop. By any means.</p>
<p>-Ethanol production from corn *creates* more pollution than its use will mitigate!</p>
<p>-The passage of the ethanol bill and the carbon sequestration funding indicate that the government is continuing its diseased partnership with agribusinesses.</p>
<p>&#8230; Sorry for the rant.</p>
<p>Happy Holidays.</p>
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